Behringer synth teasers

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #120 on: October 24, 2016, 03:43:06 AM »
I actually said the X32 was a game changer. :-)

It sounded to me as if you said the DM12 was one as well. My bad.

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #121 on: October 24, 2016, 04:10:08 AM »

It sounded to me as if you said the DM12 was one as well. My bad.

Er, no. I never once said that in my post.

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #122 on: October 24, 2016, 04:25:29 AM »

It sounded to me as if you said the DM12 was one as well. My bad.

Er, no. I never once said that in my post.

That's why I said "my bad." I thought you were drawing parallels between the X32 and the DM12 that's all.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #123 on: November 11, 2016, 02:43:38 PM »
The Module:


eXode

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2016, 02:08:43 PM »
Sweetwater demo:


Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2016, 06:22:06 AM »
Sweetwater demo:



Unfortunately, the factory presets seem to exhibit that characteristically staid DCO temperament in voiced chords, which is a bit of a bummer, though at $999, it's probably a decent first analogue polysynth that fits the bill in 2017 in a manner similar manner to that of the Roland Juno-*6* some thirty(-five) years earlier.

Word from those I trust who have had their hands on a review / early production unit is that the keybed feels a little price-conscious (looks to be a Behringer-manufactured keybed?), but I suspect that it'd be cheap to replace as a repair part if that's the case.

That said - much as I have my complaints about the Korg Minilogue, it might ultimately represent better sonic value. But what do I know, anyway?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 06:31:52 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000

eXode

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2016, 06:37:03 AM »
I have to admit that I've become less and less interested in the DeepMind 12 during the coarse of time.

I think the instrument lacks reasonable balance. I think Uli said that it started off as a Juno 106 clone and then expanded into it's own thing. Well, you can really tell because I think several things seem like an afterthought when it comes to the overall design and features.

You can clearly see the Juno 106 layout of the panel. The second oscillator is, as far as I'm concerned, just a glorified sub oct generator. The display and the amount of menu diving that seem present is very discouraging, and the fact that they are using a control knob and single buttons for the menus make me think of rack mounted romplers in the 90's - Compare it to the Prophet 12 with it's buttons and four knobs associated with the OLED. It's like the stone age in comparison.

And then there's the whole feature balance. The DeepMind 12 lacks two full oscillators and cannot be tuned more than +/- 12 semi tones appart, but offer high quality effects, WiFi and augmented reality? And baked in a very strangely compromised hands on interface with quite horrible menu diving. Something went wrong in the conceptual design process.

My only hope is that since this is Behringers first venture into hardware synthesizers that they've learned a couple of things on the way and that the next product they do (if any) will be designed with more afterthought put into the functionality and UX.

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #127 on: December 21, 2016, 06:46:25 AM »
The second oscillator is, as far as I'm concerned, just a glorified sub oct generator. The display and the amount of menu diving that seem present is very discouraging, and the fact that they are using a control knob and single buttons for the menus make me think of rack mounted romplers in the 90's - Compare it to the Prophet 12 with it's buttons and four knobs associated with the OLED. It's like the stone age in comparison.

And then there's the whole feature balance. The DeepMind 12 lacks two full oscillators and cannot be tuned more than +/- 12 semi tones appart, but offer high quality effects, WiFi and augmented reality? And baked in a very strangely compromised hands on interface with quite horrible menu diving. Something went wrong in the conceptual design process.

Very good points–and not unusual for Behringer.

Sometimes I think that they're one paper wall away from a genius move, only to find that they've only wandered into the wrong room by mistake, so to speak; the XR-Series mixers are a perfect example of this (and I still own one of the old DDX3216 digital mixers, which squarely falls into the brilliant-but-flawed category).
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #128 on: January 07, 2017, 04:35:04 PM »
GEOSynths Demo:



There's not a lot in this demonstration, but it's the best I've heard the instrument sound so far.  The pads sound a bit like the PEK.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 04:37:30 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2017, 04:46:48 AM »
You can clearly see the Juno 106 layout of the panel. The second oscillator is, as far as I'm concerned, just a glorified sub oct generator. The display and the amount of menu diving that seem present is very discouraging, and the fact that they are using a control knob and single buttons for the menus make me think of rack mounted romplers in the 90's - Compare it to the Prophet 12 with it's buttons and four knobs associated with the OLED. It's like the stone age in comparison.

And then there's the whole feature balance. The DeepMind 12 lacks two full oscillators and cannot be tuned more than +/- 12 semi tones appart, but offer high quality effects, WiFi and augmented reality? And baked in a very strangely compromised hands on interface with quite horrible menu diving. Something went wrong in the conceptual design process.

I'd stopped paying much attention to the DM12 until recently when it started getting into the hands of a few users. I've heard enough demos now to think it can be programmed to sound pretty good and with more flexibility than I expected. Also had a read of the manual and it looks as if both oscillators can be set to different ranges (16', 8', 4') so it should be possible to get them more than an octave apart.

I'm still a little sceptical of the menu diving and reliance on the display. I think I'll only know if its a hindrance when I get to try one sometime. I keep thinking it has the 2 LFO, 3 ENV and mod matrix features that I've really missed on simpler synths (P6, System-8 etc.) and at a price that doesn't punish the wallet too much.

Still think I'm more in the market for a desktop module, especially if the keys aren't all that. Any more keyboard synths here will break the ergonomics of the room anyway. :)

eXode

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2017, 04:24:12 AM »
Yeah, I saw that I was wrong re the feet" which is good of course. Still not enamored in the menu diving aspect. I think the vangelis style lead shows some potential.

Some more GEOSynth demonstrations.
Vangelis style lead:
10 custom patches (no talking):
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 05:07:31 AM by eXode »

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2017, 04:45:20 AM »
Still not impressed, rather bewildered by the hype. It seems to me that price obviously means more to people than content.

eXode

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2017, 05:36:38 AM »
Still not impressed, rather bewildered by the hype. It seems to me that price obviously means more to people than content.

I don't think the hype is that strange, it's an affordable instrument that gives you a lot of bang for your buck after all. I think it's a shame that you make an assumption that price would mean more to people than content just because you don't like it. Tastes differ after all, and I have a hard time believing that anyone would hold on to one if they didn't like the basic tone of the instrument.

I've been considering the DeepMind 12 as a potential addition, but I haven't heard or seen anything that would sway me. In contrast to your price remark, I am considering other more expensive instruments as well - because both their UX and tone appeal more to me. :)

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2017, 06:57:38 AM »
Still not impressed, rather bewildered by the hype. It seems to me that price obviously means more to people than content.

I don't think the hype is that strange, it's an affordable instrument that gives you a lot of bang for your buck after all. I think it's a shame that you make an assumption that price would mean more to people than content just because you don't like it. Tastes differ after all, and I have a hard time believing that anyone would hold on to one if they didn't like the basic tone of the instrument.

There's basically only one thing I don't like about Uli Behringer in general, and that's his pseudo-altruistic bla-bla and his customer suck-up gestures on forums like GS. Some might perceive it as a super nice guy image, I'd call it bad taste, a lack of decency (especially with regard to his cloning plans), and a reason for vicarious embarrassment. - There are certainly more elegant ways to behave like a prostitute. But that's only what I would describe as an obnoxious business practice, just like the aim to clone every classic there's ever been. Yawn - yet another 808, 909, etc. It's a pure mass market strategy concerning things that are designed for mass consumption, I get it. It's just not very exciting.

As for the DM12: I personally don't care about internal effects, so that side of the instrument could be there or anywhere in my view. It will serve its purpose for the live use, yes, but at the same time you have to be rather careful with especially reverbs in that context, as they can easily turn the sound into mud and be a nightmare for the front of the house mixer. I emphasize the latter because a vast number of sounds that I've heard in the demos are drenched in effects like there's no tomorrow. What I've heard dry on the other side, sounds pretty average, not bad, but also not outstanding. The synth engine in itself is not particularly compelling, rather what you would expect to get at this price point. In fact, the only interesting thing I could find is the various ways in which you can adjust the envelope curves - exponentially, logarithmically, and linear. Okay, that's cool. All the rest looks like an instrument that became more and more crammed over time - in other words: badly designed (at least if you consider the ability to know when to say stop a precondition for well laid-out instruments or tools in general). But what was this synth supposed to hark back to in the first place? A Juno-106. There is already my first question mark, as I simply don't get what is so desirable about the Juno-106 in the first place, except for being a piece of nostalgia for those, who couldn't afford anything better back in the day. So basically the whole concept of the DM12 is bewildering to me from the get-go.

As for price over content: I'm not sitting on a high horse when it comes to affordable instruments. There are lots of great affordable instruments, many of which have been released over the past couple of years: from the MiniBrute to the Volcas and beyond. I get the impression though, that the price of the DM12 becomes a sort of knockout argument in most reviews, as if it was a means to an end already. And to me this seems to be the only true piece of innovation there is about this synth. While that may be exciting or interesting from an economical perspective, I fail to see what's so exciting about the DM12 in terms of synthesis though - especially since a Prophet '08 can still run circles around it.

eXode

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2017, 08:53:07 AM »
I appreciate your clarification. :)

I'm not going to pretend that I don't agree with many of your points as I've made similar assessment on several of them.

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2017, 01:38:17 PM »
Sorry for the rant though. It's just that I find this Behringer guy hard to swallow, as his whole attitude is so annoying to me (must be the charming mix between insurance agent and self-proclaimed guru). I think it would be easier for me to take the DM12 for what it is if they had announced it without all the hubbub and all the references. And that's something I miss about Behringer: Just putting something together that's rather unique, not based on the whole retro hype or anything like that. If it was more like a suddden announcement, as in "Hey, we've put together an affordable 12 voice poly. It has its limitations but it's still a pretty decent package we think", that would have been different. But instead Behringer and almost all the reviewers act as if they've reinvented the wheel, and that's something I don't get.
I still remember the first SonicTalk episode, in which the DM12's announcement was discussed, and a rather unimpressed Rich Hilton said something like, "Dave Smith has been doing it for years". So that's basically where I'm coming from: "It's just one amongst many, so please calm down everyone."

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #136 on: January 14, 2017, 02:41:56 PM »
Sorry for the rant though.

Paul, as far as rants go, that was a masterpiece.  It belongs in the Ranter's Hall of Fame as a model for all who would like to rant.  It contains wit, sarcasm, indignation, and disgust.  A masterpiece of rantism.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 02:56:55 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #137 on: January 14, 2017, 02:47:42 PM »
...especially since a Prophet '08 can still run circles around it.

Oh, and thanks for that.  ;D

dslsynth

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Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #138 on: January 14, 2017, 05:14:14 PM »
:o . o O ( copycat newcomers )
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Behringer synth teasers
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2017, 01:59:27 AM »