What Will Follow the Prophet '08, and When?

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'll almost certainly take the next step and buy another Prophet '08 Module.  I can get it brand new from DSI with the latest updates.  So, I don't want this instrument to go out of production!

Prices are down on them too.  I see them on the  net for about $1000 new (not B Stock).  I got my P-12 Mod for $1299 new on Black Friday from a reputable shop.  I becomes kind of hard to pass them up at that price.

Right.  Getting a good price on a Prophet '08 Module will not be a problem.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I, too, have tried to warm to the Prophet-12's filter, but I just feel as if the DSP tone generation needs something a bit more organic than the Marion/DSI Curtis chip voice.

Alas, we're a small and beleaguered group, but we're out there.  Perhaps we should start a commune for our own protection.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I realize these two videos are familiar to most of us, but I wanted to cite them as classic examples of YouTube videos that fairly well represent the sonic quality of an instrument.  After listening to them a few times way back, I was irretrievably sold on the Prophet '08, probably from the opening note!

[eXode]

I realize these two videos are familiar to most of us, but I wanted to cite them as classic examples of YouTube videos that fairly well represent the sonic quality of an instrument.  After listening to them a few times, I was irretrievably sold on the Prophet '08, probably from the opening note!

That review is really great, and was also surprised back when I first saw it how close the P'08 was to the OB-Xa in 4-pole filter mode.

I was also surprised about the fact that I actually prefer the aggressive resonance of the P'08 over the smoother P6 (from watching Starsky Carr's excellent videos on YT). I've always loved the SSM2040 (at least when I owned a clone of the SSM2040 in Eurorack, it was my favorite LPF), but wasn't as blown away by it in the P6 as I thought I'd be.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Carr's videos had a similar effect on me.  Even though his Prophet '08/Prophet-6 comparisons were intended to demonstrate the superiority of the latter instrument over the former, they ended up having the opposite effect on me and a number of others.  They appeared when I was seriously considering selling a P'08 to finance a P-6.  But I was surprised how much I preferred the P'08 when the two synthesizers were put side-by-side.

I would certainly admit the P-6 has the better pure analog tone, and for this reason it was on the top of my most-wanted list.  But the P'08 offers the many nuances and shaping capabilities - as well as an excellent tone - that made the choice an easy one.  For me, these many designing capabilities make it as if you're working with an ensemble of cooperative musicians who, as your musical ideas and interpretation become clearer and clearer, are willing and able to make the necessary inflections.  Without these, it's like working with a bunch of guys who just don't want to cooperate with you.

[eXode]

I've been viewing DCO's vs VCO's as some kind of black and white before, but I've come around to a different mindset lately and have come to accept both for what they are. I definitely think there's a place for DCO's along side VCO's.

That said, I have to say that the OB-6 has been very tempting, despite it's limitations (single LFO in particular). It has a sound that I clicked with, and almost felt that I got drawn into.

I'll follow this NAMM with great interest, but if nothing interesting is announced I have a plan for my next purchases.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Same here.  I've always loved the purest rawest analog tone, but working with the Prophet '08 taught me to appreciate the strengths of the DCO.  I would name them as 1) good quality analog tone, 2) no needed warm-up time, 3) perfect tuning stability, and 4) perfect oscillator-keyboard tracking.  I would say the DCO makes for excellent polyphonic as well as monophonic uses, whereas the VCO is best for monophonic uses.  That's why I was hoping to find the "perfect" VCO mono synth.  Oh well.

The Prophet '08 has been called "thin-sounding" by many folks.  I would qualify that and say, yes, it's thinner than a Model D or an Oberheim Two-Voice.  But by no means is the standing statement accurate.  It's just thin enough and just thick enough to be perfect for massive chord playing.  I suppose sixteen Model Ds MIDI-ed together would be the very definition of gorgeous analog thickness, but I think in polyphonic uses it would be far too much of a good thing; it would be so dense and heavy as to lack clarity and definition.  To me, the Prophet '08 strikes a perfect balance, and whatever thinness it possesses only allows it to be clean and distinct in chordal moments.

So, Exode, what purchases do you have in mind?  An OB-6?

[eXode]

Same here.  I've always loved the purest rawest analog tone, but working with the Prophet '08 taught me to appreciate the strengths of the DCO.  I would name them as 1) good quality analog tone, 2) no needed warm-up time, 3) perfect tuning stability, and 4) perfect oscillator-keyboard tracking.  I would say the DCO makes for excellent polyphonic as well as monophonic uses, whereas the VCO is best for monophonic uses.  That's why I was hoping to find the "perfect" VCO mono synth.  Oh well.

The Prophet '08 has been called "thin-sounding" by many folks.  I would qualify that and say, yes, it's thinner than a Model D or an Oberheim Two-Voice.  But by no means is the standing statement accurate.  It's just thin enough and just thick enough to be perfect for massive chord playing.  I suppose sixteen Model Ds MIDI-ed together would be the very definition of gorgeous analog thickness, but I think in polyphonic uses it would be far too much of a good thing.  To me, the Prophet '08 strikes a perfect balance.

So, Exode, what purchases do you have in mind?  An OB-6?

The OB-6 is of great interest. It is definitely on my watch list, but so is the Prophet 08.

I don't own any hardware at the moment, although I've owned the mono evolver desktop, the tetra, and the PEK in the past (to mention the DSI products in particular). I am looking to acquire at least one hardware synthesizer next year. I already have the funds set aside but I can't bring myself to purchase anything this close to NAMM.

[Sacred Synthesis]

How about a Prophet '08 Keyboard controlling an OB-6 Module?  Are you salivating yet?

[eXode]

How about a Prophet '08 Keyboard controlling an OB-6 Module?  Are you salivating yet?

Yeah, I do believe that would be a perfect match in many ways!

However, I might go for the P'08 module as well since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

[_ADSR_]

...since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

Hey, now!

You can't be throwing claims like this around without letting us know what it is!   

What it is, please?

[DavidDever]

...since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

Hey, now!

You can't be throwing claims like this around without letting us know what it is!   

What it is, please?

Not sure what eXode is using, but Ensoniq TS-10s or SD-1s are relatively cheap these days and possess a poly aftertouch circuit that is both relatively maintainable as well as adjustable (the VFX-SD and older models may be a little less reliable in that respect). There are still quite a few out there, often supplied for hire within the film scoring industry to use with orchestral sample instrument libraries....

As there are no bubble key contacts to speak of*, it may very well be one of the most interesting (traditional) synthesizer keyboard actions, short of the ROLI; the keys are identical across Ensoniq models so there will always be a supply of spares.


* - uses continuous capacitive sensing by way of individual coils under each key location; the actual keys are similar to a Fatar TP-8S design ("dogleg", longer moment arm) with a small embedded plate attached to the underside of each key that provides the change in capacitance, proportional to distance.

[eXode]

...since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

Hey, now!

You can't be throwing claims like this around without letting us know what it is!   

What it is, please?

Oh sorry. I found this second hand keyboard in my local synth shop several years ago, it's an ELKA MK55 Master controller keyboard. It has very nice features with poly and channel aftertouch as well as many different curves for velocity and aftertouch. There are features that I don't use myself but you can setup splits etc on it as well. I love the weight of the keys and the response of this keyboard.

[eXode]

Will 2016 be the last year for the Prophet 08? Sweetwater doesn't list it anymore and also some European stores have removed it from their listing as well. Some stores (Musicians Friend, Gear4Music, Pro Audio Star to mention a few) that still carry it have dropped their price for the keyboard significantly.

[DavidDever]

Will 2016 be the last year for the Prophet 08? Sweetwater doesn't list it anymore and also some European stores have removed it from their listing as well. Some stores (Musicians Friend, Gear4Music, Pro Audio Star to mention a few) that still carry it have dropped their price for the keyboard significantly.

I'm gonna make a reasonable guess that all of the remaining units that use the Marion/DSI custom Curtis ICs (Prophet '08 keyboard/module, Mopho x4 keyboard) will go away in 2017, with the flagship Prophet-12 keyboard/module and Tempest drum machine to follow at a later time.

This lines up quite well against the current DSI product page, moving from bottom to top of the listings: https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/product-category/instruments/.

Note that the units which utilize discrete-component filters (Pro-2, Prophet-6 keyboard/desktop, OB-6 keyboard/desktop) are at the top; I'm also gonna guess that the filter design used in the Pioneer Toraiz is discrete.

One last point - it could very well be possible that there would be a new range utilizing the re-issued Curtis filter / oscillator ICs, which would certainly negate the need to stock / re-order a manufacturing run of the Marion/DSI custom Curtis ICs.

[eXode]

I'm sure that it will sound good regardless if it's discrete or made from CEM IC's.

I'm mostly interested in whether it will have more than 6 voices, a 61 note keyboard and minimum 2 LFO's.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Will 2016 be the last year for the Prophet 08? Sweetwater doesn't list it anymore and also some European stores have removed it from their listing as well. Some stores (Musicians Friend, Gear4Music, Pro Audio Star to mention a few) that still carry it have dropped their price for the keyboard significantly.

Woe...woe!  And I still must buy one more Prophet '08 Module to complete my P'08 system, but I can't afford it until the spring.  Nor do I want to buy one used.  Oh, Woe!

It may be my own eyesight, but the DSI line of instruments, missing the Prophet '08, looks rather sad and colorless.  I sure hope a worthy P'08 replacement is coming.

[Paul Dither]

I'd suggest to just wait and see until there's an official announcement. I can't really imagine that an instrument like the Prophet '08 will disappear without any comment.

As for the Prophet 12 and the Tempest being discontinued and the instrument listing:
I think the Prophet 12 is still a bit too young to be retired any time soon and there has been too much work being put into the most recent Tempest updates. So I can't see the latter being discontinued in 2017 either. And I wouldn't interpret the instrument listing as being indicative of anything within this context either. It's mostly organized in reverse chronological order with the keyboard versions being listed before the module versions. I think the Tempest only moved up a bit because or ever since the 1.4 update.

[_ADSR_]

...since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

Hey, now!

You can't be throwing claims like this around without letting us know what it is!   

What it is, please?

Not sure what eXode is using, but Ensoniq TS-10s or SD-1s are relatively cheap these days and possess a poly aftertouch circuit that is both relatively maintainable as well as adjustable (the VFX-SD and older models may be a little less reliable in that respect). There are still quite a few out there, often supplied for hire within the film scoring industry to use with orchestral sample instrument libraries....

As there are no bubble key contacts to speak of*, it may very well be one of the most interesting (traditional) synthesizer keyboard actions, short of the ROLI; the keys are identical across Ensoniq models so there will always be a supply of spares.


* - uses continuous capacitive sensing by way of individual coils under each key location; the actual keys are similar to a Fatar TP-8S design ("dogleg", longer moment arm) with a small embedded plate attached to the underside of each key that provides the change in capacitance, proportional to distance.

Thanks for the info.  I've been eyeing the classifieds for the last year or so looking for Ensoniq instruments with PolyAT.  I have an Ensoniq E-Prime but alas, only channel aftertouch.  It was released towards the end of Ensoniq and just missed the cut-off for their proprietary keybed.

It is really too bad more consideration is not put into a method to fully utilize the expressiveness of analog synthesizers via the keyboard.  It seems they are more of an afterthought anymore (small keys, not enough keys, etc.).

[_ADSR_]

...since I have this great master keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.

Hey, now!

You can't be throwing claims like this around without letting us know what it is!   

What it is, please?

Oh sorry. I found this second hand keyboard in my local synth shop several years ago, it's an ELKA MK55 Master controller keyboard. It has very nice features with poly and channel aftertouch as well as many different curves for velocity and aftertouch. There are features that I don't use myself but you can setup splits etc on it as well. I love the weight of the keys and the response of this keyboard.

Ah!  Nice score!  Actually, I think I asked you that before.  Sorry for the re-request!