Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6

OK so i'm trying to wrap my head around sequencing my OB-6 with ableton, I managed to sequence it but then when I wanted to set up automation for the OB-6 in ableton i can't for the life of me figureout how to do what i want so i can program the automation in ableton and have it play back via the MIDI going to the OB6 but i was able to make one MIDI track that recorded the notes i was playing on the OB6 into ableton and then loop that in ableton, but when i hit A in ableton to make the automation come up it only shows me mixer and I can basically get an automation line where i can automate the volume up and down but not say, automate the filter to sweep up and down, however i can make a 2nd MIDI track, set the output to the OB6, hit record and twiddle the filter frequency on the OB6 and it apparenty records it into ableton even though i see no automation line or anything, and i still only have mixer/volume as an automation option, but it plays back the filter sweep twiddling i did, but i don't unerstand how or why or how i could say, edit that MIDI data?

this feels really dumb, but anyone know how i can do this with ableton and the OB-6?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2024, 04:32:48 PM by FUMSK »

LPF83

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Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2024, 06:28:36 AM »
If you just set up a single External Instrument (as opposed to generic MIDI track) for the OB-6, ensuring channel is set right and making sure you have the right MIDI settings on the synth (like the midi out cable type, MIDI control On, param send and receive set to CC, etc.), are you seeing the MIDI track indicator lights in the upper right showing data flow?

I'm not 100% clear on what it is you're trying to do, so just trying to work through the simple stuff first.

If you're just trying to get multiple automation types for a single synth on a single channel you don't need 2 MIDI tracks to do that, just use the Envelopes tab when editing the clip to manage the automation types.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2024, 02:10:08 PM »
Yep i was able to play the notes into midi into ableton from the OB6 and the midi lights went up and down with the pressing of keys i just can't figure out how to then get he audomation of parameters other than the keus tobe automatable from ableton to the OB6, and i tried from the single midi track as that's how i usually did it with everything else but the only options it gives me like i said are mixer and the only sub option to that is basically the volume, i cn automate that and that's it. BUT when i set up a 2nd midi track and pointed it also to the ob6 so the first one was playing the notes and i didn't overwrite that data with the filter freq sweep data, it let me record the filter sweed knob twiddling, but it doesn't show it on that track just a straight line and in the automation selector for that track it's the same as the other one where it only shows mixer and volume, nothing about CC numbers or other parameters, nothing.

As I ecall in the past with like software instruments if you just clicked on a parameter you wanted to automayte t would default to that as what you'd be utomating in ableton, unless you selected the drop down and selected something else or if it was a hardware midi instrument like the ob6 it would show a bunch of CC#'s and you'd have to figure out which CC# corresponded to in this case the filter frequency knob, then you could select that and draw in your automation and it would sent that via midi (which is going via USB in this case) to the OB6.

Attached the Ableton MIDI settings in case anything stands out as glaringly wrong or something.


If you just set up a single External Instrument (as opposed to generic MIDI track) for the OB-6, ensuring channel is set right and making sure you have the right MIDI settings on the synth (like the midi out cable type, MIDI control On, param send and receive set to CC, etc.), are you seeing the MIDI track indicator lights in the upper right showing data flow?

I'm not 100% clear on what it is you're trying to do, so just trying to work through the simple stuff first.

If you're just trying to get multiple automation types for a single synth on a single channel you don't need 2 MIDI tracks to do that, just use the Envelopes tab when editing the clip to manage the automation types.

Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2024, 02:22:27 PM »
And it Still works on softsynths like that, if i click on a parameter this case the filter freq in maxxive X it lets me draw in the automation and plays it back, on the single midi channel like it's supposed to, i just don't get why it doesn't do this with the OB6?

LPF83

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Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2024, 03:05:42 PM »
You didn't mention if you checked the MIDI settings on the OB6, the ones I mentioned plus the MIDI channel.

Sometimes when I run into something like this it usually has more to do with some setting on the synth I overlooked.

Also this is probably more my problem than yours but the punctuation/spelling of your post is really hard on my eyes, sort of like I want to help but I'm walking barefoot on broken glass to do so :)  Hope it doesn't come across the wrong way but that can really reduce the number of responses you get for a post.

I don't see anything glaringly wrong in your Ableton settings... in fact I don't even need to do all of that to get MIDI CCs from knobs from a synth into Ableton... its usually more about getting the settings on the synth correct.

The keys don't come in as CC data, and the fact that that's working is why I want you to check the MIDI settings on the synth like param send and receive.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

LPF83

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Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2024, 06:12:24 PM »
Also going back to my earlier post...  look for the MIDI indicators in the upper right (see attached image, area circled).  Are they showing incoming data from the knob turn on the synth?  If not use that as your basis for troubleshooting.

I went into my studio room a few mins ago thinking about this thread after a few hours of being away, and noticed that the project I had open wasn't getting MIDI data from the synth like it was before.  Turned the synth off, and back on, and MIDI data was being received into Ableton again.. so that's another possibility to be on the lookout for. 
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2024, 01:27:52 PM »
You didn't mention if you checked the MIDI settings on the OB6, the ones I mentioned plus the MIDI channel.

it's almost certainly something like that i just have to find what parameters and how to fix them on he OB-6

Also this is probably more my problem than yours but the punctuation/spelling of your post is really hard on my eyes, sort of like I want to help but I'm walking barefoot on broken glass to do so :)  Hope it doesn't come across the wrong way but that can really reduce the number of responses you get for a post.


yea sorry I often use speech to text on my phone and it messes everything ALL up, and it doesn't help my typing sucks and then autocorrect messes up my already terrible spelling but then you for hanging with my atrocious grammar, I know it's bad.

Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2024, 01:34:37 PM »
"making sure you have the right MIDI settings on the synth (like the midi out cable type, MIDI control On, param send and receive set to CC, etc.), are you seeing the MIDI track indicator lights in the upper right showing data flow?"

Honestly it's stupid but I do not know how to set the CC param to send and receive, looked at the manual too and could not find how to do it.

"If you're just trying to get multiple automation types for a single synth on a single channel you don't need 2 MIDI tracks to do that, just use the Envelopes tab when editing the clip to manage the automation types."

Yea I know from soft synths that I don't need to have multiple MIDI tracks to automate multiple parameters I was just trying to do anything to get it to do both the notes and the knows through MIDI. But I also do not kow what the envelopes tab is or how to use it as you say.

LPF83

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Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2024, 02:35:08 PM »
Honestly it's stupid but I do not know how to set the CC param to send and receive, looked at the manual too and could not find how to do it.

See page 11 in the manual, section on Global settings: 

https://www.sequential.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/OB-6-Operation-Manual-1.1.pdf

You will definitely want to get familiar with those settings, otherwise integrating hardware with the DAW is going to be an ongoing source of frustration.

Yea I know from soft synths that I don't need to have multiple MIDI tracks to automate multiple parameters I was just trying to do anything to get it to do both the notes and the knows through MIDI. But I also do not kow what the envelopes tab is or how to use it as you say.

Definitely look up some tutorial videos on Youtube for the version of Ableton you have, there are plenty out there.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Really dumb question about sequencing automation with Ableton/OB-6
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2024, 04:50:25 PM »
Ah! thank you very much, so I'm setting this, and in the manual it is saying NRPM is preferable to CC as CC is limited to 128 parameters, with what I want to do, be able to both record the knob twiddling as MIDI as well as draw in audomation in ableton FOR say, the filter frequency on the OB-6, can I do this with NRPM? Or do I need to set it to CC and find the CC number? (i just remember having to use CC#'s in the old days with my hardware sampler, but if i can do this, and if i can do it even easier with the NRPM setting I would very much prefer to do that of course).


Honestly it's stupid but I do not know how to set the CC param to send and receive, looked at the manual too and could not find how to do it.

See page 11 in the manual, section on Global settings: 

https://www.sequential.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/OB-6-Operation-Manual-1.1.pdf

You will definitely want to get familiar with those settings, otherwise integrating hardware with the DAW is going to be an ongoing source of frustration.

Yea I know from soft synths that I don't need to have multiple MIDI tracks to automate multiple parameters I was just trying to do anything to get it to do both the notes and the knows through MIDI. But I also do not kow what the envelopes tab is or how to use it as you say.

Definitely look up some tutorial videos on Youtube for the version of Ableton you have, there are plenty out there.