The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: LoboLives on September 25, 2017, 06:14:26 AM
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I have a lot of analog gear and I want to start adding some digital synth sounds to my music. Specifically the PPG Waves, Prophet VS and DX FM sounds.
I've narrowed it down to three synths.
1.) Prophet 12. From the digital sounds I've heard out of this thing I think it would work quite well. I just fear I'd be somewhat wasting it's potential by only using it for DX Piano tones and PPG Choir sounds and the like. I also wonder if (much like how the REV2 was an updated P08) if we'd see a new Digital synth from DSI next NAMM. Most of the conjecture is that this is unlikely. I would like to see another Evolver type engine but again it's unlikely but still don't want to jump the gun too quickly.
2.) Studio Logic Sledge 2. The cheapest option of the three and also with a nice knob per function interface. Great PPG tones and FM sounds out of this thing from what I've heard. It also has sampling ability as well which you can run through the filters/synth engine and process.
3.) John Bowen Solaris. The most expensive option and has a long wait time. From the sounds I've heard, it's absolutely incredible. It has a ton of different sound textures. I wouldn't be using any of the analog modeling sounds but mostly the VS waves, PPG sounds. My issue is, is this essentially just a VST in a really nice case? Is there actual synthesis going on here or is it just software?
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That's not too easy and depends on how close you wanna get to the classics you named. After all, the PPG Wave, the Prophet VS, and the DX 7 all sound different.
The Prophet 12 should probably taken for what it is and not what it can emulate. It's currently the most flexible hybrid synth on the market that may be able to capture some of the characteristics of the instruments named above, but I think you'll only truly enjoy it if you aim for sounds beyond that scheme.
Sound-wise, I think nothing comes closer to PPG-esque sounds than the Modal Electronics 002 at the moment. It also has an overall instant big and luxurious sound.
And then, there will be the Waldorf Quantum soon, which will offer a whole different palette of digital options, among which there's also going to be granular synthesis.
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That's not too easy and depends on how close you wanna get to the classics you named. After all, the PPG Wave, the Prophet VS, and the DX 7 all sound different.
The Prophet 12 should probably taken for what it is and not what it can emulate. It's currently the most flexible hybrid synth on the market that may be able to capture some of the characteristics of the instruments named above, but I think you'll only truly enjoy it if you aim for sounds beyond that scheme.
Sound-wise, I think nothing comes closer to PPG-esque sounds than the Modal Electronics 002 at the moment. It also has an overall instant big and luxurious sound.
And then, there will be the Waldorf Quantum soon, which will offer a whole different palette of digital options, among which there's also going to be granular synthesis.
I actually wasn't too blown away by the Quantum to be honest.
What are your thoughts on the Sledge and the Solaris?
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I actually wasn't too blown away by the Quantum to be honest.
What are your thoughts on the Sledge and the Solaris?
I agree on the Quantum in terms of what has been demostrated so far on YouTube etc. To be fair, though, most of us only saw the presentation of a prototype without that many tailored sounds. As far as I know, it's currently being sent to preset designers, so that might also change the way it's going to be perceived. It feels good and sturdy, though, and will offer an interesting combination of four different synth engines.
I'm not that familiar with the Solaris. I know what's in there, but I've never played one in person.
The Sledge does sound nice I have to say. The build quality is rather on the cheap side. Not because anything is particularly wobbly, but it is more or less just a big piece of plastic, so it doesn't feel remotely close to anything like a Prophet-6 for example. But sound-wise I personally found it more appealing than the Peak for example. At least at first sight/listen.
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I actually wasn't too blown away by the Quantum to be honest.
What are your thoughts on the Sledge and the Solaris?
I agree on the Quantum in terms of what has been demostrated so far on YouTube etc. To be fair, though, most of us only saw the presentation of a prototype without that many tailored sounds. As far as I know, it's currently being sent to preset designers, so that might also change the way it's going to be perceived. It feels good and sturdy, though, and will offer an interesting combination of four different synth engines.
I'm not that familiar with the Solaris. I know what's in there, but I've never played one in person.
The Sledge does sound nice I have to say. The build quality is rather on the cheap side. Not because anything is particularly wobbly, but it is more or less just a big piece of plastic, so it doesn't feel remotely close to anything like a Prophet-6 for example. But sound-wise I personally found it more appealing than the Peak for example. At least at first sight/listen.
I'm just not a fan of the touch screen on the Quantum. I know it sounds silly but I sort of wished Waldorf modeled it after a PPG. Blue and with a body that you can sort of place things on as opposed to not. Silly I know but it would stand out for sure.
The Sledge I don't mind being plastic as for the price you are getting a great sound still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLPFAujnW1Y
The Solaris does sound awesome...but again maybe I'm confused but would a digital software wave/synthesis be the same as digital waves and synthesis? What I mean is a digital software wave should be the same as a wave found in a hardware synth as they are both digital based or am I wrong? Hard to explain.
But listen to this baby...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8GAZfAikNo
Like I said I'm mainly going to use the synth for DX FM bells, Synclavier sounds, PPG wavetable sweeps, wavetable choir, DX and VS Clav/Rhodes sounds.
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I'm just not a fan of the touch screen on the Quantum. I know it sounds silly but I sort of wished Waldorf modeled it after a PPG. Blue and with a body that you can sort of place things on as opposed to not. Silly I know but it would stand out for sure.
Yeah, I know that the display is not to everyone's liking. Practically, it makes sense for such a synth, though, since the Quantum is far more complex than the PPG. The Modal Electronics 002 would be closer.
The Sledge I don't mind being plastic as for the price you are getting a great sound still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLPFAujnW1Y
It's definitely a great sounding synth.
The Solaris does sound awesome...but again maybe I'm confused but would a digital software wave/synthesis be the same as digital waves and synthesis? What I mean is a digital software wave should be the same as a wave found in a hardware synth as they are both digital based or am I wrong? Hard to explain.
But listen to this baby...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8GAZfAikNo
Like I said I'm mainly going to use the synth for DX FM bells, Synclavier sounds, PPG wavetable sweeps, wavetable choir, DX and VS Clav/Rhodes sounds.
It certainly sounds great as well and it may serve your purpose best in hardware if you'd rather like to use it for these classic sounds you've mentioned. You'll definitely find a lot of those engines covered in plug-in format too, but if you prefer to work with hardware, then this woud be your best bet. You would still have to get a dedicated FM synth, though, as none of the above mentioned synths are in this category. The best most current and hands-on option would probably be the Yamaha Montage, although it comes with a bigger display too.
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It may sound weird but have you thought of the Kronos?
Edit: Not the Kronos sounding weird but the idea of getting one!
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It may sound weird but have you thought of the Kronos?
Edit: Not the Kronos sounding weird but the idea of getting one!
I have a Kronos. Not really a fan of the thing. I never warmed up to it at all.
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I didn't have the time to put the Prophet 12 through an intensive digital trial, so I can't speak about it in that domain. But I have to put in a word for an old friend. Have you ever considered a Poly Evolver Keyboard? Probably the four-voice polyphony eliminates it for you, but it is squarely in the Prophet VS/PPG family like few other synthesizers. Certainly it lacks many of the features that have become the norm today, but if you simply want a high-qualituy physical instrument to play, then it's a gem. I've passed countless hours playing and recording with mine into the wee hours of the morning, and I am always amazed by the beauty of its character. It's magnificent for icy breathy ethereal digital pads. And it's the king of digital aliasing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2uBYTDCaeU&index=13&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKqGnb-TMh8&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l&index=14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0L_nGkot04&index=11&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l
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My favorite digital synth right now is an iPad running Nave.
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My favorite digital synth right now is an iPad running Nave.
I have my iPad running the Vogel CMI Fairlight app. Might actually start to add that into my music to
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I didn't have the time to put the Prophet 12 through an intensive digital trial, so I can't speak about it in that domain. But I have to put in a word for an old friend. Have you ever considered a Poly Evolver Keyboard? Probably the four-voice polyphony eliminates it for you, but it is squarely in the Prophet VS/PPG family like few other synthesizers. Certainly it lacks many of the features that have become the norm today, but if you simply want a high-qualituy physical instrument to play, then it's a gem. I've passed countless hours playing and recording with mine into the wee hours of the morning, and I am always amazed by the beauty of its character. It's magnificent for icy breathy ethereal digital pads. And it's the king of digital aliasing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2uBYTDCaeU&index=13&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKqGnb-TMh8&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l&index=14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0L_nGkot04&index=11&list=PL-CSFEgC2tTzYa70uOirGHIWGu72Pui8l
Love the Poly Evolver keyboard but you are right 4 voices is not enough and I don't want to have to start polychaining it together with racks just to get voices. If Dave does come out with a new Evolver next Namm then I'll be interested but I don't think that'll happen.
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Yeah, I figured. It would be a huge investment of time and money to put together an eight-voice Poly Evolver like mine. But the result is exquisite and totally unique.
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My favorite digital synth right now is an iPad running Nave.
I have my iPad running the Vogel CMI Fairlight app. Might actually start to add that into my music to
Woah, I didn't even know that existed. I'll check it out.
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My favorite digital synth right now is an iPad running Nave.
I have my iPad running the Vogel CMI Fairlight app. Might actually start to add that into my music to
Woah, I didn't even know that existed. I'll check it out.
Get the Pro version. It's $50 but it actually can do real time sampling, create your own sounds/has all Fairlight samples AND has the Page R sequencer with Midi!
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It may sound weird but have you thought of the Kronos?
Edit: Not the Kronos sounding weird but the idea of getting one!
I have a Kronos. Not really a fan of the thing. I never warmed up to it at all.
Thats that idea down the pan then :)
I think the Kronos is probably the "best" digital synth I have, it is an Aladdins cave of synthesis. But I get your point, I don't love it and it would not be the last digital synth to be sold here. Very capable though.
If I was getting a new digital synth it would be the 002.
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It may sound weird but have you thought of the Kronos?
Edit: Not the Kronos sounding weird but the idea of getting one!
I have a Kronos. Not really a fan of the thing. I never warmed up to it at all.
Thats that idea down the pan then :)
I think the Kronos is probably the "best" digital synth I have, it is an Aladdins cave of synthesis. But I get your point, I don't love it and it would not be the last digital synth to be sold here. Very capable though.
If I was getting a new digital synth it would be the 002.
Extremely capable for sure just enjoy my Kurzweil 2600 XS more than any other workstation...I may actually get a newer Kurzweil PC3K soon.
The 002 sounds nice buts it's insanely expensive for what it is.
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Yeah, I figured. It would be a huge investment of time and money to put together an eight-voice Poly Evolver like mine. But the result is exquisite and totally unique.
What's your thoughts on the Solaris?
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What's your thoughts on the Solaris?
My only thought is that it's too expensive for me, so I don't even bother to research it. Otherwise, I'd probably go the Modal Electronics route. I realize a PEK-PER pair is mightily expensive, but I was able to put it together over time.
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What's your thoughts on the Solaris?
My only thought is that it's too expensive for me, so I don't even bother to research it. Otherwise, I'd probably go the Modal Electronics route. I realize a PEK-PER pair is mightily expensive, but I was able to put it together over time.
I think the Prophet 12 may be my best bet for what I'm after. The Solaris hasn't updated to multitimbrality yet and honestly with a synth that expensive it really should be multitimbral.
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That's my opinion, too. All things considered, the Prophet 12 is the best hybrid instrument that someone of my financial circumstances could possibly afford. And that's not a complaint, because there's more in a P12 than I'll ever need. But I personally wouldn't want a synthesizer that approaches the price of a car or a down payment on a house. It's just too much invested in one object. I'd be afraid to turn it on and use it, lest I break it!
The funny thing is - considering the theme of this thread - the P12 now lingers in my memory as more of a virtual analog than a hybrid or digital synthesizer. I spent little time experimenting with its digital prowess, except for running through its few digital wave shapes. Coming from the Evolver's 90+ digital wave shapes, plus its several analog, they certainly didn't impress me, but I realize it's a matter of what you do with them across the entire instrument. The oscillator is such a fundamental component in synthesis; and yet, with the P12, for the first time I felt as if it was only the bare beginning of a long series of events, at the end of which the oscillator would hardly seem to be of importance. I realize that's technically incorrect, but I'm describing an impression the instrument left.
So, until I've had my hands on one again, it's hard for me to consider the P12 a "digital synth". The instrument just doesn't fit into a category I can name. It's more of a nondescript masterpiece, if that isn't a contradiction in terms.
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That's my opinion, too. All things considered, the Prophet 12 is the best hybrid instrument that someone of my financial circumstances could possibly afford. And that's not a complaint, because there's more in a P12 than I'll ever need. But I personally wouldn't want a synthesizer that approaches the price of a car or a down payment on a house. It's just too much invested in one object. I'd be afraid to turn it on and use it, lest I break it!
The funny thing is - considering the theme of this thread - the P12 now lingers in my memory as more of a virtual analog than a hybrid or digital synthesizer. I spent little time experimenting with its digital prowess, except for running through its few digital wave shapes. Coming from the Evolver's 90+ digital wave shapes, plus its several analog, they certainly didn't impress me, but I realize it's a matter of what you do with them across the entire instrument. The oscillator is such a fundamental component in synthesis; and yet, with the P12, for the first time I felt as if it was only the bare beginning of a long series of events, at the end of which the oscillator would hardly seem to be of importance. I realize that's technically incorrect, but I'm describing an impression the instrument left.
So, until I've had my hands on one again, it's hard for me to consider the P12 a "digital synth". The instrument just doesn't fit into a category I can name. It's more of a nondescript masterpiece, if that isn't a contradiction in terms.
Yeah I heard a few demos on youtube of it's FM based sounds and wavetable sounds and it really does sound great. I wish it had more on board effects.
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I think I might be leaning towards the Solaris. Although it's not great at those FM sounds it can mimic a VS and PPG quite well AND THEN SOME.
It really has a unique sound and would be totally different than what I currently have.
What's everyone's opinions on it? Price aside.
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Well I have always wanted one that's for sure!
He is doing a new run as well I think so you could nab yourself a brand new one.
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Well I have always wanted one that's for sure!
He is doing a new run as well I think so you could nab yourself a brand new one.
Yeah I was speaking with Bowen yesterday about it. Mmm I may get something else before I grab one but it's on my list. I'll wait until next Namm. If DSI doesn't do another digital or VS Synthesis type synth then I'll go for the Solaris.
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It's interesting that the Prophet 12 won't suffice for you as a digital synthesizer.
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It's interesting that the Prophet 12 won't suffice for you as a digital synthesizer.
Yeah. I'm not saying it's a bad synth but honestly I think a lot of the sounds I'm after are a combination of digital synthesis, analog filters and effects (Chorus, Phaser etc). The P12 doesn't have effects and I'd rather not be lugging around a pedal board.
While the Solaris doesn't have analog filters it does have far more flexibility than the P12 including the VS waveshapes, Wavetables and has some nice on board effects. If you listen to some presets (specifically the Rotor Dreams patch) it has a sound that is quite unique and would stand out alongside my analog tones. The P12 is more of a digital synth trying to emulate analog it's nice but it won't stand out in a mix.
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And that strikes me as encouraging - another affirmation that, after all, the Prophet 12 isn't so digital.
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And that strikes me as encouraging - another affirmation that, after all, the Prophet 12 isn't so digital.
I just would like to avoid having two synths serving the same purpose. Hence why I'm not interested in the OB6 cause it be redundant of the Prophet 6. With the REV2...mmmm at least it's bi-timbral and has different features so I can somewhat justify it.
The Prophet 12 just wouldn't stand out in a mix whereas the Solaris would.
I know you said it's out of your budget but sound wise what do you make of the Solaris SacredSynthesis?
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I would agree with everything you've said about it. The Solaris is outstandingly digital in character, far beyond the Prophet 12, and offers the whole gamut of classic digital sound, and more. I wish every synthesizer had such an engine. My only concern is with what's been said here about Oberheim; and that is, I'm hesitant to buy from overly boutique companies. I know people often like the quaint personal treatment they receive from mom and pop businesses, but for something this expensive and complex, I'd also like to have the assurance that the company will be supporting its products for years to come, and that it has the staff, development, service, and a large quantity of spare parts to provide for the future. The idea of producing only one or two masterpieces - and those in small quantities - leaves me uneasy.
This sort of statement, taken from the website, makes me sweat:
"We are now officially taking deposits for Production Round #6. Delivery is expected to start late November 2017. There are 3 spaces remaining in the production Round #6 group."
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I would agree with everything you've said about it. The Solaris is outstandingly digital in character, far beyond the Prophet 12, and offers the whole gamut of classic digital sound, and more. I wish every synthesizer had such an engine. My only concern is with what's been said here about Oberheim; and that is, I'm hesitant to buy from overly boutique companies. I know people often like the quaint personal treatment they receive from mom and pop businesses, but for something this expensive and complex, I'd also like to have the assurance that the company will be supporting its products for years to come, and that it has the staff, development, service, and a large quantity of spare parts to provide for the future. The idea of producing only one or two masterpieces - and those in small quantities - leaves me uneasy.
This sort of statement, taken from the website, makes me sweat:
"We are now officially taking deposits for Production Round #6. Delivery is expected to start late November 2017. There are 3 spaces remaining in the production Round #6 group."
Yeah I know but Bowen was fairly quick to respond to my messages. Nice guy and we talked about the Prophet VS. I suggested a collaboration with Dave Smith but he said Dave doesn't need his help lol. Really nice guy and down to earth.
In regards to Oberheim a second store in Toronto here verified that it isn't easy getting the stuff and often takes a long time to get in but they do have a black Two Voice Pro arriving in two weeks and said he would give me a good hour alone with it. So at least there's that. I still am in love with it...but it's a risky love.
To be completely frank even though it's risky dealing with boutique dealers it seems John is a bit more connected with the fans and consumers than Tom is. Obviously this may be due to the age difference but even still.
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I think no matter whether I could afford it or not, it would always be important to me to be able to check out a synth in person first. That's also why I can't really make a full judgement about the Solaris, as I've never played one and I believe it can only be checked out at a few trade shows. Not sure whether John Bowen has a return policy of any sort, but I assume one either has to take the plunge or not. On paper it looks great and if it's your goal to specifically achieve the sounds of the classics after which its building blocks have been designed, then it's probably a good option.
Having only had the opportunity to listen to a few sound samples online, I personally find the Solaris a bit too generic sounding when compared to synths like the 002 or the Evolver for example, which have more of a unique sonic character in my view. Hence I can understand why Sacred Synthesis brought up the Poly Evolver as an alternative.
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Yes, indeed. In spite of a few shortcomings, the Poly Evolver has a unique, and thus, a distinctive character. It's easily recognizable, and I like that. The Solaris strikes me as an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink type synthesizer. I think this sometimes is a disadvantage in that an instrument so vast ends up with no character of its own. As Dave Smith might say, it's not only what you put in to an instrument, but also what you leave out, that gives it a personality.
To be fair, though - and not to take the wind out of your sails with the previous comments, Lobolives - it's also nice to have a behemoth of a synthesizer that can do just about everything, and leave the distinctiveness to come from the musician's choice of sounds and manner of use of the instrument. So, I can see how the Solaris would be just the right instrument for many folks.
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Yeah it’s all good points to consider. I’ll give the 002 another listen but for some reason I’m put off by it. Not sure why.
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
No it's not that. I don't know exactly. It's more the sound I dislike.
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Was also looking at the Radikal Technologies Accelerator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGt_F5K72A
Sort of reminds me of a DX7. Not the best interface but some interesting sounds.
I still think a Solaris may be the best. Wish multimode could be implemented soon.
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
No it's not that. I don't know exactly. It's more the sound I dislike.
Ditto. It's never struck me as outstanding enough to justify the cost. That's why I've never taken it too seriously, even though I'm a big instrument guy. I mean, every polyphonic digital synthesizer can make beautiful bell patches and ethereal pads. But when it comes to the more standard generic sounds, the ones you're inclined to use on a daily basis, the 002 sounds to my ears like just another good flexible synthesizer. The only digital/hybrid instrument that has ever struck me - really caught my ear and kept my attention - has been, pardon me again, the Poly Evolver.
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
No it's not that. I don't know exactly. It's more the sound I dislike.
Ditto. It's never struck me as outstanding enough to justify the cost. That's why I've never taken it too seriously, even though I'm a big instrument guy. I mean, every polyphonic digital synthesizer can make beautiful bell patches and ethereal pads. But when it comes to the more standard generic sounds, the ones you're inclined to use on a daily basis, the 002 sounds to my ears like just another good flexible synthesizer. The only digital/hybrid instrument that has ever struck me - really caught my ear and kept my attention - has been, pardon me again, the Poly Evolver.
Like I said I'm going to wait until next NAMM if DSI doesn't do a new Poly Evolver or another analog/digital hybrid (Two analog oscillators/two digital oscillators) then I'll have to pull the trigger on the Solaris. Not really sure what Dave and company can do in the analog realm other than multimbrality and from my understanding he's not interested in going down that path.
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Lobo Lives, what's your take on programming the Solaris? from what I recall from the videos I watched a few years ago- it looked like it might be bit of a menu diving machine.
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
No it's not that. I don't know exactly. It's more the sound I dislike.
Ditto. It's never struck me as outstanding enough to justify the cost. That's why I've never taken it too seriously, even though I'm a big instrument guy. I mean, every polyphonic digital synthesizer can make beautiful bell patches and ethereal pads. But when it comes to the more standard generic sounds, the ones you're inclined to use on a daily basis, the 002 sounds to my ears like just another good flexible synthesizer. The only digital/hybrid instrument that has ever struck me - really caught my ear and kept my attention - has been, pardon me again, the Poly Evolver.
I guess it depends on the sounds you use on a daily basis, I guess for different users these would be different.
This is the reason that the Serum plugin is so successful and loved even though I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
I think with the 002 they went for a "modern (digital)" sounding synth while maybe the 008 was the "older (analog)" sounding synth.
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Lobo Lives, what's your take on programming the Solaris? from what I recall from the videos I watched a few years ago- it looked like it might be bit of a menu diving machine.
Well this series of videos shows programming and more detailed looks at the screens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcO8TUq-lgk
I would say it may seem like a lot of menu diving but it's actually from a knob per function/analog type approach. Once you realize where everything is and what each screen entails programming becomes easier.
I'm looking at this as someone that's programmed Kurzweil V.A.S.T. synths where there's a lot of parameters, modulations and loads of capabilities but only a single screen. The Solaris having many screens actually benefits it and keeps it from becoming what I call the "iceberg Effect". Small screen but a massive amount of capability and features hiding beneath the surface that you have to figure out how to find. The Solaris is all right there.
Another synth I was looking at was the Yamaha Montage but there's apparently a ton of menu diving and no sequencer...not that I need a sequencer for it but for something with that much capability a basic audio recorder built in is a bit silly. With it's FM and samples adding a sequencer could have made it a modern day Synclaiver.
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Is it because it looks just like a 1970's American kitchen appliance? Leggo my Eggo! ;D
No it's not that. I don't know exactly. It's more the sound I dislike.
Ditto. It's never struck me as outstanding enough to justify the cost. That's why I've never taken it too seriously, even though I'm a big instrument guy. I mean, every polyphonic digital synthesizer can make beautiful bell patches and ethereal pads. But when it comes to the more standard generic sounds, the ones you're inclined to use on a daily basis, the 002 sounds to my ears like just another good flexible synthesizer. The only digital/hybrid instrument that has ever struck me - really caught my ear and kept my attention - has been, pardon me again, the Poly Evolver.
I guess it depends on the sounds you use on a daily basis, I guess for different users these would be different.
This is the reason that the Serum plugin is so successful and loved even though I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
I think with the 002 they went for a "modern (digital)" sounding synth while maybe the 008 was the "older (analog)" sounding synth.
I heard the 008 described as having a sound of a Rhodes Chroma. I wish it had the look of it as well lol
I just find that Modal is sort of taking DSI's ideas, including the layout somewhat and making them in a more expensive body and adding maybe a few features but the 008 soundwise hasn't stood out to me at all. For the price of the thing I expect another Andromeda.
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I just find that Modal is sort of taking DSI's ideas, including the layout somewhat and making them in a more expensive body and adding maybe a few features but the 008 soundwise hasn't stood out to me at all. For the price of the thing I expect another Andromeda.
The difference goes a bit deeper. The Modals are more expensive because the hardware that has been selected is more expensive, particularly the knobs which are among the best industrial design options you can order (from a manufacturer perspective). Beyond that, the 002 and 008 are mainly built on discrete circuits.
Sonically, they're as different from DSI's offerings as Moog's are from Oberheim's, which is mainly due to the filters and the fact that the single voices of a 002 follow a variable sample rate and come with individual DA converters that add the heterogeneity that is usually associated with analog voices. The latter non-DSP solution also adds to the overall price.
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I just find that Modal is sort of taking DSI's ideas, including the layout somewhat and making them in a more expensive body and adding maybe a few features but the 008 soundwise hasn't stood out to me at all. For the price of the thing I expect another Andromeda.
The difference goes a bit deeper. The Modals are more expensive because the hardware that has been selected is more expensive, particularly the knobs which are among the best industrial design options you can order (from a manufacturer perspective). Beyond that, the 002 and 008 are mainly built on discrete circuits.
Sonically, they're as different from DSI's offerings as Moog's are from Oberheim's, which is mainly due to the filters and the fact that the single voices of a 002 follow a variable sample rate and come with individual DA converters that add the heterogeneity that is usually associated with analog voices. The latter non-DSP solution also adds to the overall price.
Yeah I get all that I just...I don't know there's something about them that puts me off from them. Not sure what it is.
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Yeah I get all that I just...I don't know there's something about them that puts me off from them. Not sure what it is.
That's alright. And if you don't like the sound as you mentioned above, the 002 should be off the list anyway, since sound is basically criterion number one.
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Lobolives, what about the old Blofeld? I know it's in a far inferior class to the instruments you've so far considered, but still, if you can forgive the interface, it's got in own strengths. And the keyboard is supposed to be of excellent quality.
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Lobolives, what about the old Blofeld? I know it's in a far inferior class to the instruments you've so far considered, but still, it's got in own strengths. And the keyboard is supposed to be of excellent quality.
I haven't ruled it out totally but the menu diving seems to be a tad awkward but it is multitimbral except you have you access a lot of menus with a few dials to access/manipulate it.
Also I usually don't gripe about octave count but for a multitimbral synth...it really should be 5 if you are doing multilple splits over a keybed. That was one problem I had with the JDXa. Monotimbral, 4 octaves is fine...but for splits...nah.
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Well, for its meager price, you could afford two modules for improved multi-timbrality, and control them by your favorite keyboard. As an analog purist, I've always thought the Blofeld sounded excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXvQs4Nq06c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NE9bj4sI2M
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Well, for its meager price, you could afford two modules for improved multi-timbrality, and control them by your favorite keyboard. As an analog purist, I've always thought the Blofeld sounded excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXvQs4Nq06c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NE9bj4sI2M
Yeah it always had a nice DX7 type tone to it on some patches and of course the wavetable scanning.
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Like I said there's a Two Voice Pro arriving in a few weeks at a store here. I'm going to try it out and if I do fall in love with it I may actually pull the trigger on it. I guess I'm being sentimental but it be nice to have a synth from each of the masters. I got the Prophet 6 (Dave), Moog Sub 37 (Bob), Tempest and Adrenalinn (Roger), so it be nice to have one from Tom because honestly it'll be the last thing he does and a piece of history. I sort of feel the same way about John Bowen. It's sort of a piece of history from a person with a passion as opposed to a mass manufactured instrument from a corporation.
If I do decide to order the Two Voice, it'll give me enough time to play with it while I wait for the next NAMM...if DSI doesn't come up with anything that blows me away-be it multitimbrality or a new Poly Evolver-then I'll pull the trigger on the Solaris.
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If DSI ever comes out with a new Poly Evolver, you and I will have to duke it out for the first unit! But I don't believe it will ever happen.
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If DSI ever comes out with a new Poly Evolver, you and I will have to duke it out for the first unit! But I don't believe it will ever happen.
Well Dave also said he would never do another VCO synth. He also said that if people want more polyphony to polychain with modules. He also said he has no interest in bringing out synths from the past. Well we now have two VCO synths (3 if you count the AS1) and a revamped Prophet 08 with expandable voice card. Never know.
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Lobolives, what about the old Blofeld? I know it's in a far inferior class to the instruments you've so far considered, but still, it's got in own strengths. And the keyboard is supposed to be of excellent quality.
I haven't ruled it out totally but the menu diving seems to be a tad awkward but it is multitimbral except you have you access a lot of menus with a few dials to access/manipulate it.
Also I usually don't gripe about octave count but for a multitimbral synth...it really should be 5 if you are doing multilple splits over a keybed. That was one problem I had with the JDXa. Monotimbral, 4 octaves is fine...but for splits...nah.
The keyboard version should have come with a billion dials like the XTk and the Q before it, but both of them cost upto 4x the price of the Blo-keys. Blo-keys at least has enough space to put a knobox of your choice next to it's existing knobs and screen PGR style. You could even place a Mircomonsta up there too with the money you don't spend on a Modal, but hey, then you don't have a Modal.....
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The Blofeld sounds great but it's built to a budget so you need to decide whether or not you can cope with the compromises that brings.
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The Blofeld sounds great but it's built to a budget so you need to decide whether or not you can cope with the compromises that brings.
You know I always thought it was weird that the Blofeld had such a powerful engine but it was hindered by loads of menu diving, poor interface, four octave keyboard and other things. Plus the tiny writing on the body really annoying.
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The Blofeld sounds great but it's built to a budget so you need to decide whether or not you can cope with the compromises that brings.
You know I always thought it was weird that the Blofeld had such a powerful engine but it was hindered by loads of menu diving, poor interface, four octave keyboard and other things. Plus the tiny writing on the body really annoying.
I kind of acquired my Blofeld "by accident" second hand, without initially really understanding what I got myself into. It baffled me at first, so I just used the pre-sets and started installing some third party patch sets (Don Solaris created some amazing sounds).
After I started using a Windows based editor, the Blofeld engine slowly started to make sense. Eventually I made my own parameter/patch sheet (see https://gezz.eu/tutorials/Waldorf_Blofeld_Parameters_Template.pdf (https://gezz.eu/tutorials/Waldorf_Blofeld_Parameters_Template.pdf). Now, as I have internalized the engine, it has started to become second nature to me and I feel much more free to develop my own patches.
I am very happy with the Blofeld and use it in combination with the Prophet Rev2 a lot. Used with external (Lexicon) effects it sounds very very good. In my experience they fit very nicely together and sit comfortable together in the mix.
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That's great to hear - I'm kind of interested in getting an analog or hybrid polysynth to go along with my Blofeld. Just have to decide which one now...
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The Blofeld sounds great but it's built to a budget so you need to decide whether or not you can cope with the compromises that brings.
You know I always thought it was weird that the Blofeld had such a powerful engine but it was hindered by loads of menu diving, poor interface, four octave keyboard and other things. Plus the tiny writing on the body really annoying.
Some of the most expensive parts of any synth is in particular the interface... so the fewer knobs and buttons (and thus more menu diving) means that you get the synth a lot cheaper... and that is exactly what the Blofeld is... cheap... considering what it offers.
Waldorf has been using this matrix-style for many many years... it's not bad unless too many parameters are present... it's perfectly easy on say, a Pulse 1... the irritating thing on the Blofeld and Pulse 2 is those darn encoders... I wish they would stop using them... they always end up skipping values, behaving erratically... on top of that, the encoder caps should have had rubberized coating instead of these silvery and "slippery" ones.... in fact they should have been proper KNOBS instead with a fixed start and end if you ask me...
Besides... if you do not need keys, and a small module is possible, a small unit has gotten my attention lately... the MicroMonsta.... an 8 voice little "bug" that actually sound pretty well, and is pretty logically laid out... has lots of digital synthesis types in it... but maybe it's still a bit too niche... don't know... but it's dirt cheap.
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The Blofeld sounds great but it's built to a budget so you need to decide whether or not you can cope with the compromises that brings.
You know I always thought it was weird that the Blofeld had such a powerful engine but it was hindered by loads of menu diving, poor interface, four octave keyboard and other things. Plus the tiny writing on the body really annoying.
Some of the most expensive parts of any synth is in particular the interface... so the fewer knobs and buttons (and thus more menu diving) means that you get the synth a lot cheaper... and that is exactly what the Blofeld is... cheap... considering what it offers.
Waldorf has been using this matrix-style for many many years... it's not bad unless too many parameters are present... it's perfectly easy on say, a Pulse 1... the irritating thing on the Blofeld and Pulse 2 is those darn encoders... I wish they would stop using them... they always end up skipping values, behaving erratically... on top of that, the encoder caps should have had rubberized coating instead of these silvery and "slippery" ones.... in fact they should have been proper KNOBS instead with a fixed start and end if you ask me...
Besides... if you do not need keys, and a small module is possible, a small unit has gotten my attention lately... the MicroMonsta.... an 8 voice little "bug" that actually sound pretty well, and is pretty logically laid out... has lots of digital synthesis types in it... but maybe it's still a bit too niche... don't know... but it's dirt cheap.
Honestly I'd love for Waldorf to just bring out a new PPG WAVE type synth. Sort of like a Multitimbral Blofeld Engine with a Sledge layout, five octaves....and blue! LOL
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Mention of the Blofeld brings up another topic; Do we really have to spend a ton of money in order to make good synthesizer music? With instruments like the Schmidt, the Solaris, and the Modal Electronics poly's, everybody's assumption seems to be in the affirmative. I think this is a bit of materialism and advertising getting the best of us. I'd say one could make superb synthesizer music with only a modest amount of disposable income. Hence, even though I like large instruments with long keyboards, I'm not at all drawn in by the appeal of super expensive wonder-synthesizers. Which is say that something like a Blofeld or a Sledge is still a very attractive option, and neither should be eliminated from consideration merely because it's relatively inexpensive.
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That is exactly the route I'm taking at the moment... I've set myself the goal of only buying lowbudget, simple, hands-on analog synths... and honestly, they perform more than well... I've had a lot of the expensive DSI machines... the small ones sound just as good... the only difference to me is, that the features are fewer... but that can be a benefit as well, as some people tend to stop at too many options... in the end, it all boils down to how good you are at using your brain, and what instruments inspire and trigger you to use them well... even small analog monosynths can do a lot, if you tweak them, making the most out of them.
The most important for me is that the synth inspire me to use it... that inspiration can even be silly sometimes... even though I could use any synth to make a piece of music, if it does not inspire me, it will not happen, no matter if it's darn expensive or dirt cheap... for me personally, digital synths does not inspire me, no matter how flexible og cool they sound... I do not know why, they just do not... right now I want small analog synth, with few controls to tweak, because "squeezing the lemon" is what inspire me.
So... if you only get inspired by expensive gear... sorry, you are out of luck, and need to spend the money... materialism or not.
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Precisely. I wouldn't do this because it would be too much fuss and trouble, but I'd love to put together a low-budget set up and produce the best music I could with it. I truly believe there's far too much gear hype and fixation in our field, and it shows in the end results. Something basic like a Rev2 and a Blofeld could suffice to make years of wonderfully inspiring music, and it would make a salutary point as well.
Look what Marc Melia has done with only a single Prophet '08 Keyboard, an analog mixer, a volume pedal, and a couple of devices.
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Hey Lobolives, you mentioned the Sledge. What about that synthesizer? Too much plastic? ;D
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You can make great music with a bunch of volcas and you can make great music with a Schmidt.
It really comes down to the individual and what they connect with.
For example Raz is mostly shying away from keyboard based synths and going for modules and racks....I'm the opposite.
Some people swear by the Korg Kronos...I have one...and it's collecting dust. Just can't get into it.
It's not really a question for money for me it's about connecting with something. You can always get more money but you can never get more time. I realize that there's no sense in "What ifs.." so I just pull the trigger on stuff if I have a connection with it, price be damned.
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Ah so refreshing reading these comments.
I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me. The Rev2 has been my most expensive purchase ever (in 45+ years). Like Razmo I feel I am slowly homing in on what instrumentation turns me on. Sometimes it takes a while before I figure out what I like. The Blofeld is an example of that. The Rev2 for me was on advice of others (I almost fell for the Deepmind 12 hype....) and good advice it was! Two synths for the price of one, not bad ;)
I just purchased a second hand Akai S5000 and am starting to (re-)learn it. For sound making I feel am getting very close to my ideal setup. For sequencing, away from the computer, I am not sure yet. This I will need to investigate further. Especially as I would like to start playing live in two years or so.
Thanks guys for these great dialogues.
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Ah so refreshing reading these comments.
I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me. The Rev2 has been my most expensive purchase ever (in 45+ years). Like Razmo I feel I am slowly homing in on what instrumentation turns me on. Sometimes it takes a while before I figure out what I like. The Blofeld is an example of that. The Rev2 for me was on advice of others (I almost fell for the Deepmind 12 hype....) and good advice it was! Two synths for the price of one, not bad ;)
I just purchased a second hand Akai S5000 and am starting to (re-)learn it. For sound making I feel am getting very close to my ideal setup. For sequencing, away from the computer, I am not sure yet. This I will need to investigate further. Especially as I would like to start playing live in two years or so.
Thanks guys for these great dialogues.
I too am looking at sequencing away from the computer...this is a good video. https://youtu.be/N3FligeF9ak
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Hey Lobolives, you mentioned the Sledge. What about that synthesizer? Too much plastic? ;D
Not at all. I like the yellow and in fact I think they also should have brought out a blue one as well as a nod to the PPG Wave.
There’s some really nice sounds out of it from what I’ve heard and the price is decent. Both Rick Wakeman and Jordan Rudas play it. I’d like to see a multitimbral verson but bi timbral is fine. There’s some great tutorial videos on how to get certain sounds and it can get some nice DX tones. Haven’t ruled it out totally.
One of the reasons I’m leaning towards the Solaris is it can do both PPG and VS and more as opposed to one pallet of sounds.
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Mention of the Blofeld brings up another topic; Do we really have to spend a ton of money in order to make good synthesizer music? With instruments like the Schmidt, the Solaris, and the Modal Electronics poly's, everybody's assumption seems to be in the affirmative. I think this is a bit of materialism and advertising getting the best of us. I'd say one could make superb synthesizer music with only a modest amount of disposable income. Hence, even though I like large instruments with long keyboards, I'm not at all drawn in by the appeal of super expensive wonder-synthesizers. Which is say that something like a Blofeld or a Sledge is still a very attractive option, and neither should be eliminated from consideration merely because it's relatively inexpensive.
True. One could basically make good music and recordings with any gear, be it synths like the Volcas or a DAW like GarageBand. What remains important, though, is that one likes the sound of the instrument(s) on decides for.
There are still two separate discussions I'd say, which I bring up because you mentioned the Schmidt. One is about what gear one really needs (or whether one really needs the most expensive stuff), one is about uncompromising instruments or uncompromising manufacturers.
The Schmidt for example is totally uneconomic from a mainstream POV. It was developed because Schmidt wanted to, not because he was looking at a particular market. It's insanely expensive and he knew that it would be in the end and accordingly only sell to very few people. It's a synth idealist's project regardless of prospective profits. I played it once, didn't really like it I have to admit, but I'm still glad that it exists or that Schmidt could do what he wanted to do.
The stuff by Modal Electronics is of course placed in a different manner on the market. Still, they made clear from the get-go that they would only build instruments for the pro league or people that are paid accordingly. In terms of hardware, they were also not willing to make any compromises, which defined their niche as well and is perfectly legitimate - at least as long as they succeed with their goals. All that made it of course even more surprising when they would eventually announce the CRAFT synth(s).
All these latter and more recent pricy synths don't typically fall into the category of fetishized objects, at least not to the same degree as certain vintage units like a Jupiter-8, a Prophet-10, or a Moog modular system for example. Sure, there were quite a few people lusting for a Schmidt, but 99% also knew from the beginning that they could never afford one. Most did just appreciate the effort as such. In the same way the 002, 008, or the Solaris are not really treated like mythologized items. They just belong to the upper end market and I've never seen someone making a comment about them that says: "You definitely need those to get that proper sound." The latter mostly happens with reference to anything vintage, be it vintage analog or vintage digital, the stuff that sells from $4,000 to $10,000 on Ebay.
And to return to the beginning: Of course one doesn't need any particular instrument because others say so. One should mainly focus on the sound and have an understanding of one's musical goals. Because what do you wanna do with the most amazing and feature rich instrument if you don't like its sonic character? And what do you wanna do if you have the nicest sounding instrument that has too many limitations for what you'd like to achieve? Both aspects are of course tied to subjective preferences and make it perfectly legitimate to either prefer a Minimoog over any other mono synth or a System-8 over any true analog synth, and so on. Whatever works for one person - and that may be subject to change over time and with growing experience - is valid. But the criteria vary in each case.
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I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me.
I bought mostly used stuff for decades. It was largely before you could find specific things on the internet. Therefore, it was usually a matter of what happened to be available at Al Nalli or Farrow's rather than what I actually wanted. These days, I don't have to compromise quite as much, but 1991-Me probably would wonder what the hell 2017-Me is thinking. What inspires me has changed even more than my gear.
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I have had a Sledge 2 for a couple of weeks now. It's a good sounding and very easy to program synth.
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I have had a Sledge 2 for a couple of weeks now. It's a good sounding and very easy to program synth.
Yeah I heard the interface is a breeze.
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The Sledge once interested me quite a bit. It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well. But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic. The instrument shouts, "cheap!"
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The Sledge once interested me quite a bit. It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well. But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic. The instrument shouts, "cheap!"
Nah, I like it's look I would have preferred blue over yellow as a nod to the PPG Wave.
Honestly so many synths have wood sides these days it be nice if DSI's next synth doesn't have it.
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The Sledge once interested me quite a bit. It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well. But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic. The instrument shouts, "cheap!"
Nah, I like it's look I would have preferred blue over yellow as a nod to the PPG Wave.
Honestly so many synths have wood sides these days it be nice if DSI's next synth doesn't have it.
Just take them off and replace them with something else | nothing.
I much prefer the wood sides to plastic / leather / Plexiglas / metal, to be honest.
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I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5. They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes. I can't stand bright-colored plastic. I had my share of Legos as a child. Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it. I'd rather have the Legos.
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I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5. They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes. I can't stand bright-colored plastic. I had my share of Legos as a child. Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it. I'd rather have the Legos.
I like the wood look too but I would like a bit more variety. Which is why I'm probably going to get that Two Voice Pro after all and especially if it's white same with the white Solaris.
I mean even something as simple as adding blue lights instead of red ones on the OB-6 just to differentiate it more against the Prophet 6.
I just find a lot of synths are starting to look the same.
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I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5. They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes. I can't stand bright-colored plastic. I had my share of Legos as a child. Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it. I'd rather have the Legos.
Well, fortunately, the Sledge 2 I bought is all black. It has the black keyboard too (white keys are black and black keys are grey).
Much bigger than I thought it was going to be. Almost as big as the OB8.
It's not perfect but it does sound good.
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Absolutely agree that the Prophet 5 looked fantastic. Absolute classic.
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Sorry a bit behind. I just bought a used Ensoniq SD-1 (circa 1991) because of its sequencer. It takes minutes to lay down the something like the Bach Air from Orchestral Suite #3. I can't do that with the computer because I'd be going back and forth between the keyboard and the computer. Plus the sound generation and the sequencing are on the same board, which makes me much more apt to actually record stuff and tweak the sounds.
So in theory, a Kronos should be great for inspiring music. But it's all about the interface. When all of the functionality is easily accessible from the front panel with no menu diving I start to experiment. Otherwise I just give up or get bored.
The Ensoniq is actually an interesting little digital synth. Although it's basically a ROMpler, it has some interesting tricks up its sleeve. First of all, there are a set of transwaves, which I hear are similar to PPG wavetables. These are great for creating evolving textures. Additionally you can layer up to six waveforms in a single patch. The downside is that you only have 32 voices on the maxed out SD-1 32 Voice. So you have only five note polyphony on a monster 6 waveform patch. The waveforms can be multisamples, single-cycle waves, or the transwaves. You can have two nonresonant filters per waveform so you can create high pass, low pass, band pass and band stop filters. And the sound is quite warm. Effects are definitely not world class anymore.
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LoboLives, did we mention the Novation Peak? That seems like a decent middle-of-the-road digital synthesizer.
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LoboLives, did we mention the Novation Peak? That seems like a decent middle-of-the-road digital synthesizer.
Not interested in modules and I actually haven’t enjoyed the sounds I’ve heard out of it
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I'm trying to figure out what's so unique about the Solaris, especially for the price & considering the amazing analog synths you have... It just sounds like a fairly decent ten year old emulation machine.
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
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I'm trying to figure out what's so unique about the Solaris, especially for the price & considering the amazing analog synths you have... It just sounds like a fairly decent ten year old emulation machine.
It does have a unique sound to my ears. Something I can't really explain. I asked this question in a Facebook group and was directed to a gentleman by the name of Ty Unwyn who actually has the Solaris, Sledge, Prophet 12 and Montage. He said the Solaris would be his choice every single time. He said it's hard to explain as well. Of course it can duplicate or mimic analog but he said that you would be doing a disservice to yourself if you are simply using it as a Prophet 5 or Oberheim emulation. The VS sounds and Wavetable sounds are on the right track and he said that once the Solaris starts to get into that territory you will start finding it has it's own voice that goes beyond emulation.
My mindset has always been have each synth do it's own thing and play to it's strengths. The Tempest does it's own thing, the Moog does it's own thing, the Prophet does it's and the Oberheim does it's own and the Kurzweil does it's own. Much like an orchestra. Each instrument is played as part of a larger composition. The Solaris (much like the Schmidt) I find is being robbed of exposure simply because people are using it as a virtual analog only as opposed experimenting with it and finding it's own sound. With everything on the front panel it begs to be experimented with and yet there's almost no menu diving. Using the Rotors, the VS waves, Wavetables, and even userwaves and trying to find the Solaris' own voice to be used alongside my Prophet, Moog, Oberheim, Tempest, Kurzweil.
But like I said the lack of multitimbrality on it may be a bit of an annoyance and next NAMM DSI may very bring out a synth with VS capabilities...or they might not.
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
We do not agree. :)
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
Both had analogue (Curtis) filter ICs, which frankly is a requirement for any vintage digital / hybrid unit.
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
Both had analogue (Curtis) filter ICs, which frankly is a requirement for any vintage digital / hybrid unit.
Although the Solaris doesn't have an analog filter it does have a plethora of different types of filters I believe including a VA version of the Curtis filter.
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
Wow, the Microwave nothing to write home about....I guess each to their own.
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I asked this question in a Facebook group and was directed to a gentleman by the name of Ty Unwyn who actually has the Solaris, Sledge, Prophet 12 and Montage.
Ty can't really be used as a practical reference. He has an insane studio and will buy pretty much every variation of a theme he can get his mitts on. Plus he might likely be basing that off of not knowing your situation and mean that it's the one he'd choose if he could only have one. Though the Montage for example won't fulfill your need for exotic instruments that you can showboat around, it will sonically fill a much larger gap in your repertoire.
That said, I'm not here to tell you what to buy. Just pointing things out that might be overlooked on these types of forums.
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Also from the standpoint that you're most concerned with, it's main basis is the Prophet VS and Waldorf Microwave, correct? Aside from the VS' innovative vector synthesis, neither were exactly anything to write home about imo.
Both had analogue (Curtis) filter ICs, which frankly is a requirement for any vintage digital / hybrid unit.
Although the Solaris doesn't have an analog filter it does have a plethora of different types of filters I believe including a VA version of the Curtis filter.
IMHO it's not the same; in context, however, you might not notice a difference. It just depends on your expectations; at that price, I desire creamy analogue goodness somewhere in the chain (Modal 002, Prophet-12 / Pro-2, Microwave I, Emax SE, Prophet 2000, etc.). It allows one to dial back the glassiness or grit from the digital front end, which may be desirable or not depending on the sound.
I drank the Creamware Kool-Aid some time ago, and left with a bitter taste in my mouth as support dropped off the face of the planet and I attempted to sell off a few SCOPE DSP cards (eventually at a loss), so I tend to be a bit skeptical. Don't mind me. :)
I suspect that this might be part of the reason as to why there are a limited number of Solaris units being manufactured per run; setting aside parts availability, it keeps customer support manageable within reasonable expectations, which is in fact a good thing.
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I asked this question in a Facebook group and was directed to a gentleman by the name of Ty Unwyn who actually has the Solaris, Sledge, Prophet 12 and Montage.
Ty can't really be used as a practical reference. He has an insane studio and will buy pretty much every variation of a theme he can get his mitts on. Plus he might likely be basing that off of not knowing your situation and mean that it's the one he'd choose if he could only have one. Though the Montage for example won't fulfill your need for exotic instruments that you can showboat around, it will sonically fill a much larger gap in your repertoire.
That said, I'm not here to tell you what to buy. Just pointing things out that might be overlooked on these types of forums.
The Montage is still something I’m considering but I dislike the amount of menu diving involved. The Solaris won’t give me the FM tones I’m after but Montage won’t give me the VS tones so neither is going to do everything I’m looking for.
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Hey Lobolives, if you do order an Oberheim Two-Voice Pro, do you know how long you may be waiting for it? Be careful.
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Hey Lobolives, if you do order an Oberheim Two-Voice Pro, do you know how long you may be waiting for it? Be careful.
One is arriving at the store in a week. I’ll try it out and discuss ETAs, warranty, price breaks etc with the store. I suspect it’ll be about half a year waiting time.
Just picked up a Roland V Piano today with my dad so that’ll keep me busy for a bit. Still haven’t heard anything about my Prophet in the repair shop.
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Anyone put a word in for Nord Lead 3? I love mine, the interface and ability to layer 4 patches at once is fantastic.
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Anyone put a word in for Nord Lead 3? I love mine, the interface and ability to layer 4 patches at once is fantastic.
Not a fan of Nord's keyboards. I like their Nord Drum 3p but that's about it.
For four octaves, four layers only...I'll take the Blofeld over a Nord Lead 1-4 any day.
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Nord G2 EX, best digital synth ever made. If only they had of done a G3 with sampling then it might be beaten.
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Nord G2 EX, best digital synth ever made. If only they had of done a G3 with sampling then it might be beaten.
Nord is quite frustrating. They could be killing it in the digital synth department with stuff like the Nord Wave and Nord G2 EX being their main focus but they insist on the stage Piano route.
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The seemingly absence of the Nord in the realm of serious synth instrument discussions always surprises me a bit. But I've owed one for about 3 years and I find it a valuable component. While I confess that I initially debated getting the Nord lead 4 due to lack of aftertouch, my eventual purchase was rewarded with its 4 layer feature and fm abilities. Strangely enough, I found that I didn't really miss the AT. Instead, the velocity adjustment on the instrument is superb and sort of fills that gap for me.
There's always the valid question of key bed quality. I can tell you that the keys are not as heavy as a DSI for example, but not being an actual piano player, I was able to adjust to it quickly and so that shortcoming became overshadowed. The overall make of the instrument, ergonomics and sound quality are excellent. I suppose if I was to be limited to just one synth, the lead 4 would not be it. But like any of my synths, I tend to use it for a specific use- specifically DX7 type pianos, or "real instrument" orchestral layered type pads. There's quite a few wave shapes to chose from as well. It's a pretty nice package, but one that probably suffers from a decent YouTube presence more than actual ability.
Now that I recently acquired a P-12 :) (absolutely wonderful instrument) perhaps my need for the Nord may wane.
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The seemingly absence of the Nord in the realm of serious synth instrument discussions always surprises me a bit. But I've owed one for about 3 years and I find it a valuable component. While I confess that I initially debated getting the Nord lead 4 due to lack of aftertouch, my eventual purchase was rewarded with its 4 layer feature and fm abilities. Strangely enough, I found that I didn't really miss the AT. Instead, the velocity adjustment on the instrument is superb and sort of fills that gap for me.
There's always the valid question of key bed quality. I can tell you that the keys are not as heavy as a DSI for example, but not being an actual piano player, I was able to adjust to it quickly and so that shortcoming became overshadowed. The overall make of the instrument, ergonomics and sound quality are excellent. I suppose if I was to be limited to just one synth, the lead 4 would not be it. But like any of my synths, I tend to use it for a specific use- specifically DX7 type pianos, or "real instrument" orchestral layered type pads. There's quite a few wave shapes to chose from as well. It's a pretty nice package, but one that probably suffers from a decent YouTube presence more than actual ability.
Now that I recently acquired a P-12 :) (absolutely wonderful instrument) perhaps my need for the Nord may wane.
Most of the Nord Lead 4 videos I’ve seen are basic virtual analog demos with almost no FM or waveshape stuff at all. Hard for me to judge.
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Now that I recently acquired a P-12 :) (absolutely wonderful instrument) perhaps my need for the Nord may wane.
My, what a lovely signature you have, Soundquest!
Now that it's official, I'll be interested to hear any reflections you may have comparing the Prophet 12 with the Poly Evolver Keyboard.
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Ahh yes, I sort of thought Dave needed a mid-west show room ;)
The P12 immediately impresses me with its sonic character as well as its ergonomics. Speaking of Evolver...I did stumble into one onboard patch that struck me as quite "Evolver like".
It will be interesting to see how I perceive as P12's niche. With the only exception of no sequencer, this instrument really has it all and will likely replace the Evolver as my new flagship.
Sacred Synthesis, you had mentioned P12's lesser variety of digital wave shapes compared to the PEK's. True enough, but the ones that are included are the same as on the Pro2 so I've become pretty familiar with them. The go- around is that each shape can be manipulated, so there's a pretty large palette. Nevertheless, a nice update someday might be the ability to import you own waveshapes as you can on the PEK.
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Yes, you're right. I didn't spend much time with the Prophet 12 exploring its digital potential. That would have been part two. The sorts of digital character I hear being used in one video after another doesn't appeal to me, but I understand now that a more musically pleasant digital character does lurk within the P12.