What Will Follow the Prophet '08, and When?

[Fuseball]

The noise source in those synths is as discreet as in the Prophet '08. However, that only is the audio noise source. The one with which you can modulate is based on the S+H waveform in the LFO section. You have to turn its frequency to the maximum value to get noise as a modulation source.

I thought the noise mixed in well with the oscillators on the P6 but I found I rarely used it as a modulation source. Largely because it took away the only LFO and also because it was difficult to dial in tiny subtle amounts of it, which is most commonly how I use noise as modulation.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I would say that modern synthesists rely so heavily on modulation, and have become so impressively adept at achieving all sorts of effects with it, that producing another synthesizer with anything less than two LFO's would be ridiculous.  Even I, with my musical sounds that are so very tame and traditional, cannot possibly work with a single LFO.  And I'd say, if the Prophet-6 had had a second LFO, I would have bought one.  But having only one is far too confining.

[Paul Dither]

It's funny how those of you, who got upset about the Prophet '08 receiving bad rap are now giving the Prophet-6 bad rap. Why can't both instruments that were never meant to replace each other - and can't with regard to their different feature set - just be what they are for those who simply have different needs?

The argument "that modern synthesists rely so heavily on modulation, and have become so impressively adept at achieving all sorts of effects with it" also doesn't quite work with regard to hardware alone because if you want unrestrained flexibility these days, you better get a laptop and dozens of elaborated plug-ins. There's absolutely no hardware synth and no traditional instrument that can live up to the feature set you get there. In fact, all available hardware - from drums, pianos, violins, guitars to synthesizers - almost appears primitive compared to the fully embraced digital possibilities. In this respect anybody who is choosing hardware since the early 2000s is always already making the conscious decision to eliminate options in favor of creativity or tactile experience.

[DavidDever]

Oberheim SEM:

• no built-in noise, use external generator input to filter
• no built-in noise modulator, see above
• LFO with sine waveform

SCI Prophet-*:

• variable-level noise as audio input to filter
• no sample & hold or noise as modulator

Not sure about later digital Prophets (VS/2K)

Oberheim OB-*:

• switched noise as audio input to filter
• sample & hold as modulation (LFO) waveform
• vibrato LFO (sine waveform?)

DSI Prophet-6 / OB-6:

• variable-level noise as audio input to filter
• random as available LFO waveform (noise at highest frequency extreme)

DSI Prophet '08 / Mopho / Tetra:

• variable-level noise as audio input to filter
• noise as independent modulation source + random as available LFO waveform, four software LFOs

I've never compared the noise source to random at its highest setting.

DSI Prophet-12 / Pro-2:

• multiple noise waveforms, four digital OSCs with variable levels, as audio input to filter
• random as available LFO waveform (noise at highest frequency extreme), four software LFOs

Have I missed anything here?

[eXode]

Oberheim OB-*:

• switched noise as audio input to filter
• sample & hold as modulation (LFO) waveform
• vibrato LFO (sine waveform?)

Have I missed anything here?

Some minor differences between the OB-X, OB-Xa and OB-8 LFO's:

The OB-X only had one LFO as far as I'm aware, no vibrato LFO.
The OB-Xa had a sine or triangle with pull for saw.
The OB-8 seems to have various waveforms if I'm interpreting the panel correctly but at the very least like the OB-Xa.

Also one feature of all three OB's is the LFO depth amount. One depth setting for OSC1, OSC2, and Filter Freq, another depth setting for OSC1 PW and OSC2 PW

[Sacred Synthesis]

It's funny how those of you, who got upset about the Prophet '08 receiving bad rap are now giving the Prophet-6 bad rap. Why can't both instruments that were never meant to replace each other - and can't with regard to their different feature set - just be what they are for those who simply have different needs?

Sorry, Paul.  As I've said several times before, the Prophet-6 is an excellent instrument as it is, but a second LFO would have transformed it.  I mean, even the Minimoog reissue was given one.  It's frustrating that the P-6 was not, nor the OB-6.

[Paul Dither]

Sorry, Paul.  As I've said several times before, the Prophet-6 is an excellent instrument as it is, but a second LFO would have transformed it.  I mean, even the Minimoog reissue was given one.  It's frustrating that the P-6 was not, nor the OB-6.

Not really. The original Minimoog never had a dedicated LFO, you had to use the 3rd oscillator for this purpose. In that regard only the Minimoog reissue is comparable to the Prophet-6 and its 2nd oscillator and the dedicated LFO.

Talking about the 2nd oscillator and its FM capabilities: That's for example a feature you can't reproduce on the Prophet '08 or any DCO synth for that matter.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Right - the reissue has two LFO's for two oscillators.  I thought that was a huge improvement over the original Minimoog.

[eXode]

Talking about the 2nd oscillator and its FM capabilities: That's for example a feature you can't reproduce on the Prophet '08 or any DCO synth for that matter.

Do you know how Roland did the JX3P/JX8P cross mod? Also the Hypersynth Xenophone, the Waldorf Pulse, and Pulse 2 offers cross mod as far as I know, also I believe the Elektron Analog Four added it in a FW update. Any idea how it's achieved on those instruments?

[eXode]

Seems the Pulse series in reality offers XOR on the XMOD, and the Analog Four does FM via LFO's that have a keyboard tracking option. I'm guessing that the Roland JX also does some sort of sync and ringmod/XOR in it's cross mod sections. Leaving the Xenophone that according to the manual has OSC2 triangle hardwired to FM on OSC1.

[Paul Dither]

Right - the reissue has two LFO's for two oscillators.  I thought that was a huge improvement over the original Minimoog.

No, the reissue has one LFO and one oscillator that's also capable of being a modulation source (not just a low frequency, but a full frequency range oscillator), exactly like the Prophet-6. The only difference with regard to those sections is that the Minimoog has one additional oscillator. In that regard, the Prophet-6, just like the Prophet-5, is like a polyphonic version of the Minimoog (as the latter was called in 1978) minus one oscillator.

Apart from that, most discussions about the Prophet-6's limitations are of theoretical nature; i.e. they don't take into account the sonic variety that's still possible.

[Paul Dither]

Talking about the 2nd oscillator and its FM capabilities: That's for example a feature you can't reproduce on the Prophet '08 or any DCO synth for that matter.

Do you know how Roland did the JX3P/JX8P cross mod? Also the Hypersynth Xenophone, the Waldorf Pulse, and Pulse 2 offers cross mod as far as I know, also I believe the Elektron Analog Four added it in a FW update. Any idea how it's achieved on those instruments?

It is my understanding that you need VCOs to do proper FM. I'm not familiar with either of the synths you've mentioned, so I can't say anything about how they do it.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Right - the reissue has two LFO's for two oscillators.  I thought that was a huge improvement over the original Minimoog.

No, the reissue has one LFO and one oscillator that's also capable of being a modulation source (not just a low frequency, but a full frequency range oscillator), exactly like the Prophet-6. The only difference with regard to those sections is that the Minimoog has one additional oscillator.

Yes, that's what I meant.  I had a Minimoog years ago, so I'm familiar with using its third audio oscillator as a modulation source.  My point is that having two sources of modulation for two oscillators would be good enough.

[F5D]

So, when do you believe Dave will reveal the new synth? This weekend, early next week? Something is definitely coming... I wish with at least 2 LFOs + mod matrix.

[Paul Dither]

Next Thursday is the first day of NAMM, so that'll be the day of the announcement I guess.

[emoji]

Hello everybody. I'm super stoked, I just ordered myself a P08, DD7 delay, Hall of Fame reverb today for my birthday. Starting from scratch with no gear after a big move, I wanted something playable that I couldn't get from VSTs. With the 61 keys and zzounds price match it was a no brainer. I figure that if something really amazing is announced at NAMM I still have 45 days to change my mind. The only thing that would convince me would be basically a P08 with updated filter, at near the same price point (doubtful). Members here certainly helped me make up my mind, not very many good demos out there to be honest (shout out to sacred synth). For the sake of conversation is there any other effects or anything that you guys would recommend with the P08? I was thinking a chorus might be handy.

[Fuseball]

Congratulations on getting one of the last P'08s. As I'm sure you know it's a fantastic synth that really rewards exploration of its depths. It really does have something that I've never gotten close to with any vst. It's my desert island synth.

Good choice in getting a delay and reverb. That may well be all you need. I've tried mine through a TC Corona chorus, Boss Super Chorus and a Dimension C clone. They all sounded ok but rarely better than I could get from clever modulation. I think the Hall of Fame has a modulated reverb setting that might do the same job, or there will be a Toneprint for it that does something similar.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'll second what Fuseball has written.  Congratulations, Emoji, on your new Prophet '08.  You've chosen a well-rounded workhorse instrument with character.  I think you've made a good choice in effects as well.  As for other effects, I experimented with a few choruses phasers, and flangers.  My favorites were those by Electro-Harmonix, which sounded excellent and didn't color the instrument's tone.  But, again, I'll agree with Fuseball and say the Prophet '08, because of its modulation capacity, doesn't need a chorus or flanger.   In fact, I thought even chorus made it sound exceedingly electronic.  With four LFO's and other means of modulation, as well as layering, the Prophet '08 can provide plenty of warmth, depth, and animation.  So, I would encourage you to experiment with effects, but still consider the possibility that you may not need them.  Exacting and tasteful sound design will give you a superior character.

[Strange Quark Star]

Congratulations! You're in for a lot of fun.
I can partly agree with the above in that a chorus is not strictly necessary, but from my experience I would definitely recommend getting one. I've been playing my Prophet '08 since 2009 only with a simple Lexicon reverb, if at all effected and was happy to do all modulation effects inside the synthesizer. But then I started buying some guitar pedals some time ago and tried them on the Prophet — good times!
In particular, I very much like the MXR Analog Chorus. When it is set to a subtle effect it improves almost any sound I put through it. Once I've been going through old patches again and thought "wow, didn't remember this to sound that good," until I noticed the chorus was still on!
So if you have the spare cash for some good effects you should definitely give it a go, I think. Of course it's best not to rely on them too much as the Prophet is very capable and sounds great by itself, so it is rewarding to try and get the best out of it without aid, but once you have created a cool sound you can definitely have a lot of fun improving it further with external effects. It's almost too easy…
Again, I would recommend the MXR Analog Chorus. I've also with the EHX Electric Mistress flanger, but the application range is narrower for that one. Oh, and do get a Small Stone phaser!

[eXode]

I've been looking a little at the BOSS CE-2W Chorus: https://www.boss.info/us/products/ce-2w/

Not cheap but initial reviews seem good. The standard mode (CE-2?) does mono to stereo as far as I can tell.