What Will Follow the Prophet '08, and When?

[Paul Dither]

It's now a matter of scrambling to find Prophet '08's from online stores.  They're still easy enough to find, but that won't be the case for long.  I just checked and there are lots of them on Ebay, for those who are content with used instruments.  But I'm sure those prices are about to jump up a bit with the news.

I don't know about the Mopho x4, but I would guess the same.  DSI will tell you if you ask them.  I'm disappointed that we don't get the news in advance here, not even we the moderators when we ask for it.  It's exactly like the Poly Evolver all over again.

Now I have to figure out what I should do.  I didn't want to make a hasty decision like this before seeing what DSI will be showing at NAMM.  Bad timing!

You don't necessarily need to make a hasty decision. I'm sure that by the time of NAMM there are still going to be a couple of Prophet '08s around. As an alternative, you could just place an order after Christmas and make use of the 30 day money back guarantee (in case it's possible with a discontinued product).

[Sacred Synthesis]

I expect the last ones will go quickly.  There will be plenty available on the used market for years, but the new ones will go quickly, in part, due to the exceptionally low prices.  Those who always wanted one will have no excuse now.

[Sacred Synthesis]

The discontinuation of the Prophet '08 definitely marks the end of an era.  I don't know this, but I would presume the Mopho x4 will be sharing the same fate soon enough.  And with that, the classic sound and design of DSI's first generation of instruments, those designed when DSI was simply Dave Smith with a friend or two, will slide into the vintage pit.  And that also means the DSI line up will include only one synthesizer with a five octave keyboard - the Prophet 12 - which will now be DSI's oldest instrument.  It's hard to believe.  Will it be the next to fall?

Perhaps the forthcoming synthesizer will fix all this and answer our dreams.  It should offer a clue as to DSI's future direction, since we're all trying to figure it out.  Big and expensive instruments, or medium-sized and moderately priced?  Analog, digital, or hybrid?  Regardless, it's hard to imagine a worthy replacement for the Prophet '08, considering that is was both full-sized and yet moderately priced. 

[jdt9517]

DSI has confirmed it through an email.  Both the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module have been cancelled and the company is out of stock.

   or maybe I should be happy.  I've got one and it will now transcend into the world of classic vintage synthesizers.  BTW, mine is a later one with a serial number of 55xx.  I doubt that DSI made more than 7000.  There were at least 5000 Prophet 5's made.  So, from a scarcity standpoint, the P-08 will fare well in the collectors market.

Proaudiostar has been blowing them out for $1000-1200.  That company has received some bad press, but my orders have been good with new product properly sealed, warrantable and shipped in a reasonable amount of time.  I just got my P-12 M there for $1299 (shipping included).  When it gets down to those prices, it's hard to turn down.

Blissfully having fun with my P-12M tonight.  Lot to learn, but a lot of fun along the way.  I'm old school.  I don't need  no instant gratification!   Learning is always the best part.

[Sacred Synthesis]

What's wrong with Pro Audio Star?  I've been trying to order from them tonight and their form won't take my credit card information.  What was the bad press about?  Is this a site to be avoided?

Update: I found this discussion about Pro Audio Star:

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/473ux4/anyone_else_try_to_order_a_minilogue_from/

[eXode]

I believe the oscillators are of minor importance in the grand scheme of things, and by that I'm not speaking about DCO vs VCO but the actual shapes ...

Like I've mentioned before I used to have a modular system. At one point I pursued the Moog sound. I had three really nice classic oscillators, a ladder filter, and a good classic VCA as well but something was missing. Can you guess what the final piece of the puzzle was?

Yes, I think the DCO and VCO sound quite different, but the waves themselves have less importance.

Oh let me guess, was the final piece a Model D reissue?

Haha, good one! But no, the final piece was the mixer!

Yes, after I got a clone of the CP3 mixer I finally got into vintage Moog territory. As you may, or may not be aware of, the Moog CP3 mixer distorts/clips when you start to go above 12 o clock, I believe the Model D does it as well (don't know if it's as extreme on the Model D though). My point is that it's the sum of the signal path and how it behaves that make up the character of a synth and not just oscillator A and filter B.

[MartinM]

Moinmoin,

so P'08 is dicontinued...
Some spontaneous thougths flowing through my mind:

• I am proiud and lucky to own one
• Regarding my own effect designs for my personal use (I am an engineer by education) I also like "obsolete" components...
  
• Nothing lasts forever and - as Qui-Gon Jinn knew - there is always a bigger fish
• P'08 is made a "classical vintage instrument", which my heirs may thankfully sell for an incredible amount of cash

Martin

[Paul Dither]

The discontinuation of the Prophet '08 definitely marks the end of an era.  I don't know this, but I would presume the Mopho x4 will be sharing the same fate soon enough.  And with that, the classic sound and design of DSI's first generation of instruments, those designed when DSI was simply Dave Smith with a friend or two, will slide into the vintage pit.  And that also means the DSI line up will include only one synthesizer with a five octave keyboard - the Prophet 12 - which will now be DSI's oldest instrument.  It's hard to believe.  Will it be the next to fall?

The Mopho x4 retail prices seem to remain stable, so I assume that it's not going yet. I also don't think that the logic behind the discontinuation is solely guided by the goal of getting rid of the components that have been integral to DSI's earlier designs and that have been used to varying degrees in the Tempest (synth engine) and the Prophet 12 (LP filter). Especially the Prophet 12 is a mid-aged product now by DSI standards, so I don't see an immediate thread of it being discontinued anytime soon, except of course it sells badly. Either way, those three remain the oldest DSI products now: Tempest (2011), Mopho x4 (2012), Prophet 12 (2013).

As for the keyboard length: That's basically related to ergonomics, voice count, and demand alike. In the case of the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 it's not like they had to make anything smaller to fit in a 4 octave keyboard. The front panel was filled, spaciously enough, and it happened to have the perfect width for that type of keyboard with which also the demand for more portable pro-instruments was met. But I wouldn't take that alone as a an indicator for the abandonment of 61 keys. The latter turn out to be particularly practical when you offer options like a split function, and a higher voice count in general. And as we all know, the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 are fairly basic in that regard. Not everyone might like the fact that the latter two come with 49 keys only, but with regard to the overall feature set (e.g. no bi-timbrality, 6 voices) it's not like this decision appears to be completely ridiculous and incomprehensible. So I'd stay positive about the future of the five octave keyboard.

[DavidDever]

It's worth pointing out that the Prophets '08 and -12 both featured A-B layering, with four to six voices per layer/split, as well as a 61-note / five-octave keyboard, so it's fair to expect that DSI might accommodate a similar future specification in a similar manner.

In fact–given that the Pro-2 and Mopho x4 both feature a 44-note / three-and-a-half octave keyboard for four poly-/paraphonic voices, and the Prophet-6 / OB-6 feature a 49-key / four-octave keyboard for six voices, there does seem to be an established pattern:

• Monophonic: three octaves (give or take), e.g., Mopho (32) / Mono Evolver (37) / Mopho SE (44)
• Four-voice: three-and-a-half octaves, e.g., Pro-2 / Mopho x4
• Six-voice: four octaves, e.g., Prophet-6 / OB-6
• Bi-timbral (four- or six-voice per layer): five octaves, e.g., Prophet '08 / Prophet-12

The Poly Evolver keyboard may seem to be an outlier, though it has always struck me that it would have been better suited for use as a dual-layer four-voice unit in conjunction with a Poly Evolver Rack. In fact–at the time, that was one of its principal complaints* from a retail salesperson's perspective.

* - I'd really like to point out the practical need for usable voice stealing / dynamic assignment within the context of a bi-timbral instrument, which would have allowed for a six-voice version of the Poly Evolver keyboard to have been practical for live use.

[BobTheDog]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

[Sacred Synthesis]

As for the keyboard length: That's basically related to ergonomics, voice count, and demand alike. In the case of the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 it's not like they had to make anything smaller to fit in a 4 octave keyboard. The front panel was filled, spaciously enough, and it happened to have the perfect width for that type of keyboard with which also the demand for more portable pro-instruments was met. But I wouldn't take that alone as a an indicator for the abandonment of 61 keys. The latter turn out to be particularly practical when you offer options like a split function, and a higher voice count in general. And as we all know, the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 are fairly basic in that regard. Not everyone might like the fact that the latter two come with 49 keys only, but with regard to the overall feature set (e.g. no bi-timbrality, 6 voices) it's not like this decision appears to be completely ridiculous and incomprehensible. So I'd stay positive about the future of the five octave keyboard.

Regardless of all the reasons and logical explanations (and your explanations, Paul, are certainly logical), for some of us it's either 61 keys or nothing.  I could cite perhaps 70 pieces from my YouTube channel that could not have been played on a 49-er. 

As I've said, I'm fine with a variety of keyboard lengths.  I even like mono synths with 44 keys.  However, the 61-note keyboard is the norm for me and has to be, especially for those pieces that are played entirely on one instrument.  And then there are played arpeggios, which quickly consume the octaves.  So, I'm holding out for the new instrument, in hope that it will offer people like me a future alternative.  Presently, DSI offers precious little.  Believe it or not, only the Prophet 12 has my interest, but building up such an expensive instrument with multiple units would be a tough project, and I guarantee, when I came to buy that third P12 unit, DSI would retire it without a whisper!  This has happened to me three times now!

[Sacred Synthesis]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

There really aren't that many Prophet '08's available here in the US, either.  Pro Audio Star has only "several," although ZZounds has a number.

If you want a brand new Prophet '08 Keyboard or Module, now is the time to buy one, fellas.  I wouldn't put it off even to next month.  They'll go quickly once the word is out that they've been discontinued.

[Paul Dither]

As for the keyboard length: That's basically related to ergonomics, voice count, and demand alike. In the case of the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 it's not like they had to make anything smaller to fit in a 4 octave keyboard. The front panel was filled, spaciously enough, and it happened to have the perfect width for that type of keyboard with which also the demand for more portable pro-instruments was met. But I wouldn't take that alone as a an indicator for the abandonment of 61 keys. The latter turn out to be particularly practical when you offer options like a split function, and a higher voice count in general. And as we all know, the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 are fairly basic in that regard. Not everyone might like the fact that the latter two come with 49 keys only, but with regard to the overall feature set (e.g. no bi-timbrality, 6 voices) it's not like this decision appears to be completely ridiculous and incomprehensible. So I'd stay positive about the future of the five octave keyboard.

Regardless of all the reasons and logical explanations (and your explanations, Paul, are certainly logical), for some of us it's either 61 keys or nothing.  I could cite perhaps 70 pieces from my YouTube channel that could not have been played on a 49-er. 

As I've said, I'm fine with a variety of keyboard lengths.  I even like mono synths with 44 keys.  However, the 61-note keyboard is the norm for me and has to be, especially for those pieces that are played entirely on one instrument.  And then there are played arpeggios, which quickly consume the octaves.

That's absolutely understandable. I didn't want to come across as if I was questioning the need for 61 keys.

[Paul Dither]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

Did you try Thomann?

[Sacred Synthesis]

Problem solved.  I just ordered a Prophet '08 Module from Pro Audio Star for $1,100.  That's the best price I was able to find anywhere.  Assuming all goes well with the order, this will greatly enhance my music potential.  So much for NAMM 2017!

[Paul Dither]

Problem solved.  I just ordered a Prophet '08 Module from Pro Audio Star for $1,100.  That's the best price I was able to find anywhere.  Assuming all goes well with the order, this will greatly enhance my music potential.  Now all I need is a larger mixer!

Congrats on the early Christmas prezzie! That's a really great deal. And just as a way to try to keep up: How many Prophet '08s are you going to own after its delivery?

[Sacred Synthesis]

Problem solved.  I just ordered a Prophet '08 Module from Pro Audio Star for $1,100.  That's the best price I was able to find anywhere.  Assuming all goes well with the order, this will greatly enhance my music potential.  Now all I need is a larger mixer!

Congrats on the early Christmas prezzie! That's a really great deal. And just as a way to try to keep up: How many Prophet '08s are you going to have after its delivery?

Thanks.  This will bring me to two Prophet '08 Keyboards and two Prophet '08 Modules.  I'll hold off at that.   The lower keyboard will control both modules, with the keyboard signal centered at the mixer and the modules panned to opposite sides.  I've experimented with this arrangement before, and it sounds magnificent.  The upper keyboard has each layer sent to separate mixer channels, and these are panned also so that my monophonic patches are in stereo.   If I ever get a synth module (Odyssey or SEM), it would be controlled by this upper P'08.  The only problem is that I'm now short one mixer channel.

As much as I'm a bit frustrated that it had to happen in this way, still, I'm excited, since this is the set up I've envisioned for a few years now.  As radical as it may seem to some people, this is what works best for me, plain and simple.  Of course, I'm still very much interested in DSI's new instrument; but, unless I sell a PEK, I'll be on the sidelines for a while.

Anyway, meanwhile I'll be working on my next "Prophet '08 System" monster brass pad!

[BobTheDog]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

Did you try Thomann?

Yeah, they say it is back in stock at the end of December. I'm not sure if I can believe that now!

[Sacred Synthesis]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

Did you try Thomann?

Yeah, they say it is back in stock at the end of December. I'm not sure if I can believe that now!

Where would they be getting them from, since even DSI itself is out?

[eXode]

Can't find one in stock in the UK.

Should have got one while I had the chance

Have you checked Gear4Music?