individual outs issue.

individual outs issue.
« on: December 23, 2016, 02:59:53 PM »
all,

i have beat where all the pads are routed to L/R, and it's all good.  but as soon as i plug a cable into any of the others outs I heard some sounds coming out of that out every 6th hit.  it's like it's cycling through the outs and if nothing is plugged in it routes to L/R. 

is this normal or do i have something not set correctly? 

thanks,

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 05:34:32 PM »
all,

i have beat where all the pads are routed to L/R, and it's all good.  but as soon as i plug a cable into any of the others outs I heard some sounds coming out of that out every 6th hit.  it's like it's cycling through the outs and if nothing is plugged in it routes to L/R. 

is this normal or do i have something not set correctly? 

thanks,

I think this question has been asked and answered a thousand times or more over the years.  I'm wondering, Yorgos, if you have the authority as a moderator to post a sticky thread covering some FAQ's at the top of this new forum?

Anyway, denov, the reason for this is because the Tempest cycles through voices with each new note that is triggered, as do most polysynths.  This works to your advantage most of the time, because you have 32 possible sounds but only 6 voices to work with.  So if you have six sounds sustaining or decaying and you trigger a seventh sound, the internal voice allocation algorithm will steal a voice from the sound with the least remaining amplitude in order to accommodate the new sound...

What you're not understanding about the individual voice-outs is that they are hardwired to their respective synth voices.  This means that when you plug a cable into one of these jacks, you are effectively removing that voice from the signal path altogether: i.e. from the main-outs, from the master FX, etc.

So when you have a cable plugged into one of the voice-outs, as the Tempest randomly cycles through voices, whatever sound gets picked up by that voice will then appear at that output momentarily as you've observed.  To avoid this behavior you can assign sounds to specific voices.  You do that via the 'Choke and Voice Assign' page, the shortcut to which is holding 'Shift' and pushing the 'Mod Paths' button...

At any rate, this is all in the manual, not 30 pages in; so for the love of music, folks, please read it.  May this be the last time this question needs to be asked (wink).

Cheers!

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 06:11:21 PM »
Yes i have it John,though i've already created a similar thread called "Operational Tips & Tricks" and i've attached your helpful explanation there...So if anyone's asking the question for a millionth time point him there ;)
Thanks for the heads up...
I think this question has been asked and answered a thousand times or more over the years.  I'm wondering, Yorgos, if you have the authority as a moderator to post a sticky thread covering some FAQ's at the top of this new forum?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 06:43:28 PM by Yorgos Arabatzis »

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 08:30:59 PM »
Yes i have it John,though i've already created a similar thread called "Operational Tips & Tricks" and i've attached your helpful explanation there...So if anyone's asking the question for a millionth time point him there ;)
Thanks for the heads up...
I think this question has been asked and answered a thousand times or more over the years.  I'm wondering, Yorgos, if you have the authority as a moderator to post a sticky thread covering some FAQ's at the top of this new forum?

Thanks, Yorgos, much appreciated.  If I can find the time, I may compile a few more FAQ's for posterity sake, then get you to post 'em here in GIANT BLOCK LETTERS with a link to download the manual (smirk).

Cheers!

LucidSFX

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Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 10:53:08 PM »
Good idea. I remember when I first bought the Tempest and though I read the manual it just didnt click with me. Being my first poly analog symth I never got it at first..however it wasnt hard to figure it out. This forum nailed my understanding though. A sticky for repeat question dare I say a newbie thread would be advantageous.

Cheers!
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 01:42:17 AM »
Hahaha..I like the newbie thread..So recognizable :P

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2017, 05:15:45 PM »

I think this question has been asked and answered a thousand times or more over the years.  I'm wondering, Yorgos, if you have the authority as a moderator to post a sticky thread covering some FAQ's at the top of this new forum?

i'm sorry for asking again, but if it has it's not easy to find a clear answer within a reasonable amount of time.


What you're not understanding about the individual voice-outs is that they are hardwired to their respective synth voices.  This means that when you plug a cable into one of these jacks, you are effectively removing that voice from the signal path altogether: i.e. from the main-outs, from the master FX, etc.

yes! no idea that was how it was wired inside.  this makes much more sense now.


So when you have a cable plugged into one of the voice-outs, as the Tempest randomly cycles through voices, whatever sound gets picked up by that voice will then appear at that output momentarily as you've observed.  To avoid this behavior you can assign sounds to specific voices.  You do that via the 'Choke and Voice Assign' page, the shortcut to which is holding 'Shift' and pushing the 'Mod Paths' button...


so if i have nothing assign to an inv out i'll get the cycling but if i assign at least 1 pad to an out everything else will be routed to R/L and the assignments will be routed to the out? 



At any rate, this is all in the manual, not 30 pages in; so for the love of music, folks, please read it.  May this be the last time this question needs to be asked (wink).


Page 38 says nothing about about what you wrote above.  What you wrote should be in it.  It's really thin in regards to the inv. outs.  Only in a call-out bubble mentions '6 direct voice outs'. 

LucidSFX

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Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2017, 05:41:28 PM »
Just so that you are clear on this....
If you have a pad assigned to voice one AND only have Voice 1 plugged in all 5 other voices go through main outs.

If you have one or more pads assigned to voices (ex: A1:Voice 3, A2:Voice 6) AND have ONLY one cable plugged in (ex:Voice 3) THEN Voices 1,2,4,5,AND 6 go through mains.

Remember that the Tempest allocates voices to sounds in priority of what should sound first or will also cutof a sound's decay to allow another sound to use a Voice. This is totally awesome and efficient when you think about it. So! IF you are going to plug a cable into a Voice out ensure that you have at least one sound assigned to that Voice. Otherwise you will hear the Tempest cycling through sounds. The caveat here is that if you are tracking and using all physical outs, then you have to think about what sounds should be assigned to which Voice out. For ex: A bass drum and a snare may not be good together, if you plan on applying a crazy reverse reverb to the snare hits because the bass drum will also be effected in the recording.

I like tracking with multi outs because I have other synths which can be used for other musical parts. However if I only had the Tempest, I would most likely just use one (possibly two) Voices for Bass and Lead, then have the Beat come through the mains using the distortion and compression. The Tempest does an amazing job at voice allocation. It is better than what I can do or want to do myself with careful programming.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 05:48:03 PM by LucidSFX »
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2017, 02:02:58 AM »
@LucidSFX thanks!

i guess i was expecting (now wishing for) that sound would only come out a individual out if you explicitly set a voice to one regardless if a cable was plugged in.   i'd like to be be able to leave a cable plugged in #1 and 2 for when i want to route a kick and or snare to a separate channel on the mixer.


Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2017, 04:34:19 AM »
Yep it's one of those Tempest flaws that we all wish it was different..
i guess i was expecting (now wishing for) that sound would only come out a individual out if you explicitly set a voice to one regardless if a cable was plugged in.
i'd like to be be able to leave a cable plugged in #1 and 2 for when i want to route a kick and or snare to a separate channel on the mixer.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 04:36:22 AM by Yorgos Arabatzis »

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 06:45:34 AM »
Hi, Im not a newbie with the Tempest, and I apologize if this was answered before, but recently I started to record with a multrack audio interface and got this doubt.

(I have a Tetra, where you can see in its leds how the voices cycles, so I understand that the Tempest does this too.)

My doubt is this; If I plug a mono cable for example in voice out 5, and I assign a Kick to voice 5, this will prevent voice 5 from being stolen by another sound? In other words, in this example, voice 5 should be taken out from the voice allocation cycle, or it can get stealed in a part where the kick is not triggerd?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 06:47:23 AM by Mice devices »

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 09:24:51 AM »
It doesn't matter if you assign a sound to a voice cause it can be stolen also.Your best bet is to use choking along side..

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 09:26:51 AM »
It doesn't matter if you assign a sound to a voice cause it can be stolen also if too many sounds are playing simultaneously.Your best bet is to use choking along side..
Smart choking can make you a champ ;)
Hi, Im not a newbie with the Tempest, and I apologize if this was answered before, but recently I started to record with a multrack audio interface and got this doubt.

(I have a Tetra, where you can see in its leds how the voices cycles, so I understand that the Tempest does this too.)

My doubt is this; If I plug a mono cable for example in voice out 5, and I assign a Kick to voice 5, this will prevent voice 5 from being stolen by another sound? In other words, in this example, voice 5 should be taken out from the voice allocation cycle, or it can get stealed in a part where the kick is not triggerd?

Shea

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2017, 10:44:15 AM »
as an exercise i made a beat with only 1 voice and used choking to prioritize the kick and then snare. i'm really happy with the result. when only one patch sounds at a time, the result is a pretty clean, nimble mix with plenty of space. i recommend it. then you have 5 free voices for synth counterpoint.

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2017, 04:26:47 PM »
Nice one, Shea. 

Are you actually using the chokes or just voice-stealing? Is there a difference other than priority? 

Shea

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 08:21:28 PM »
I set pads A12-A16 to voice 6 (I like to use up the bottom row for drum sounds), and then made the kick choke the snare and closed hihat, the CHH choke the OHH, and the snare choke the CHH. It still takes a little fine tuning once something is recorded but jamming it works great of course.

Easier in a way to do this on the rytm because of sound locks, but this works well in its own right.

Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 06:00:16 PM »
...so taking a voice out of the cycle to be able to lock it to a sound and voice out shuold be a feature request.

In the meantime Im going to excercise my choking skills.

Thanks guys!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 06:03:46 PM by Mice devices »

LucidSFX

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  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
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Re: individual outs issue.
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 06:53:06 PM »
? You can assign a voice to a pad. However it is a hardware limitation that the voices will always go out the mains UNLESS there is an audio cable plugged into that assigned voice. It cannot be a feature request.
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch