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External effects recommendations?

Yavn

External effects recommendations?
« on: December 16, 2016, 09:36:25 PM »
Im hoping to get some recommendations on effects units / pedals, and how they are connected.   

Im currently running the 08 & Tetra into an old Boss SE-50 via stereo ins, and then into the same mixer channel. The SE-50 is fine, although it's pretty noisy.  Im curious how people are using mono input pedals and still getting a nice stereo sound. 

Ive heard good things about the Strymon Big Sky, and am also interested in the new Boss CE-2W Waza Chorus (I love that Roland chorus).

Please pass on any recommendations & best practices! 

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 09:53:40 PM »
Since maintaining a stereo field is of the utmost importance to me, I've chosen to use a Lexicon MX300 rackmount, which has stereo ins and outs.  I connect it to my Mackie mixer using the send/return jacks so that the reverb can be applied in varying amounts to each of the channels.  I had earlier tried the pedal route, but I found it far too complicated and cluttered, not to mention hissy.  I also use a Nanoverb 2 for delay on one Prophet '08.  It, too, has stereo ins and outs and works well at moderate levels.
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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2016, 06:45:16 AM »
Regarding the Strymon pedals, it is possible to use them with a stereo input (by way of an internal jumper), though I generally use pedals with mono-output devices (SEM, Moog stuff, etc.).

I've shifted over the years from multiple-reverb (e.g., ambience + hall) setups to individual modulation + delay feeds into a global reverb (e.g., bright hall), corresponding to a shift away from digital sampled sound sources (for which, I feel, reverbs are a necessary tone-shaping element) to largely analogue ones.

As an aside: the only downside with guitar pedals is the need to properly gain-stage them, which can be a problem when using mono line-level instruments with hot outputs. I generally find this to be a bigger problem with DSP-based guitar pedals* (less so with Strymon), and especially noticeable when using effects whose internal resolution maxes out at 48 kHz or less (e.g., Earthquaker Devices).

SS' recommendation of the Lexicon units is very sensible (I actually have a Lexicon MX200 which allows for a dual mono to stereo feed, among other useful functions), though their sound signature is very apparent after some extended listening.

* - some of this has to do with the analogue design utilized on less-expensive DSP-based devices for purposes of reducing cost; inexpensive all-analogue devices tend to gradually overdrive which adds its own subtle character to the sound.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 06:48:28 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 01:40:58 AM »
Moinmoin,

I agree with Sacred Synthesis regarding the stereo-issue, but happen to like some effects only available in mono. So I run my P'08 through a mixer with "a few" aux sends (2 pre and 2 post fade) in order to add effects. Effects with mono in / stereo out return stereo, but even for simple mono effects the original signal stays stereophonic.
I also use P'08's both output pairs in order to be able to easily adjust volume and/or effects relation in split or stacked mode.
There is one drawback however in using both output pairs: When in normal mode, voices 1-4 are at output A, voices 5-8 at output B. This is one of the few things where P'08 manual is not really true. Not the layers, but the voices are separated. This is equivalent only for stack and split modes, which is a real PITA:
  • Extra care has to be taken in situations where the levels and/or effects at the mixer are different when switching from a patch in stack or split mode to a patch in normal mode.
  • It is impossible to have two different sounds not only at the P'08 (layer A and B in normal mode) but also at the mixer (different effects for the two sounds), that could be easily switched by P'08 layer switch...
Nevertheless it is great to blend between two sounds or apply different effects to different layers with the facilities of the mixer.

HTH

Martin

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2016, 06:41:18 AM »
It's true - the Prophet '08 is mono instrument.  This makes for some difficulties alright.  In working with a single unit, one option is to copy Layer A to Layer B, detune them from each other just perhaps two digits for a little oscillator beating (otherwise, they can sound hollow), and then run them trough identical effects - whether this mean separate effects units or using the mixer ins and outs.  This way, everything is stereo and balanced.

However, one beautiful effect using Split Mode is to run only one Layer through, say, a delay.  Then, if you want the final repetition of a melody or chord progression to be extra dramatic, program the instrument so that Layer will provide the patch with the delay.  In other words, the patch on the left end of the keyboard lacks the delay, while the patch on the right end has it.  It's very effective and is almost like having onboard delay, because the delay is - sort of - a part of the patch.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 06:43:27 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Yavn

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 02:22:20 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.  A mixer with aux sends solves most of the mono / stereo issues and allows the most flexibility. 

Aside from the Lexicon units, does anyone have any delay / chorus / reverb suggestions?

Picking up on something Sacred Synthesis said, is the Prophet '08 a mono instrument?  What's the difference between the  R&L outputs? 


Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 02:45:25 PM »
The Prophet '08 is a mono instrument with panning ability.  Hence, you can program the eight voice to alternate from side to side, one voice after another.  It sounds like stereo, but it's just the signal jumping from one side to the other.  Panning the signal by means of the LFO is only a variation on the same theme.  However, using the Output B jacks, you can cause four consecutive voices to sound on one side, and four on the other.  So, if you stack the two layers using mono or poly patches, you have true stereo.  The problem is, your instrument's outputs are then used in a way that will make other patches problematic.

The Evolvers are truly stereo instruments in that their oscillators are hardwired to opposite sides, but there is a parameter that allows you to change this and make the signal mono.  On the Prophet '08, you have to create a stereo effect because the instrument itself is not truly stereo.
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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 01:52:09 AM »
On the old forum there was also a thread where we figured out a method of using a stacked program to consistently separate the layers to left and right outputs respectively. This was using only stereo output A. I'll see if I can login to the old forum and find the method later. I know I have a couple of programs saved on my P'08 that make use of it.

chysn

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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 05:02:15 AM »
Quote
Aside from the Lexicon units, does anyone have any delay / chorus / reverb suggestions?

For a nice-sounding and flexible reverb pedal, check out the TC Electronics Hall of Fame pedal. It comes in a couple varieties, and I had the larger stereo version. Unfortunately mine died after about a year. Since my research didn't reveal that this is a common problem, I'd still recommend it. I may replace mine someday, but all my money went to modular for a while, and I'm currently using DSM03 for hardware reverb.

I've also had good experience with NanoVerb, but I don't think it's in production any more. Today, I'd choose another Hall of Fame over a used NanoVerb, though.

If you want to go old school, I used to love the Alesis QuadraVerb. Its technology is 25 years old now, and who knows how many of these have physically held up. But the routing capability and programmability are really good, and they can be found dirt cheap. Also, if you find a QuadraVerb Plus, it can be used as a simple sampler, with the ability to transpose with a MIDI note number.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 08:21:46 AM »
For a nice-sounding and flexible reverb pedal, check out the TC Electronics Hall of Fame pedal. It comes in a couple varieties, and I had the larger stereo version. Unfortunately mine died after about a year. Since my research didn't reveal that this is a common problem, I'd still recommend it. I may replace mine someday, but all my money went to modular for a while, and I'm currently using DSM03 for hardware reverb.

Might just be an unfortunate coincidence but my Hall of Fame pedal also died after a couple of years in my guitar rig. If I was buying another reverb now I would probably go with something like a Blue Sky.

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 02:50:58 AM »
My first post here. Just bought the prophet 08 desktop module. LOVE it and got a great tip: Particle + Delay + Drive wowww

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 05:55:44 PM »
I got a used Lexicon MPX-110 for my Prophet 08 and I am as happy as a pig in mud! Prior to that I had a Korg Kaoss pad which while being useful for the looper, I am using in other ways. Most of the Prophet 08 sounds that I make need just a hint of reverb/chorus or maybe some phazing on the string patches. My wife scoured the ebays to find one for $55 and the final product is amazing. Great Prophet '08 source + late 90's Lexicon 24bit 48.1kHz effects = awesome!

Though to have a $450 Strymon big sky would be amazing. That shimmer reverb makes my heart leap! Why oh why does combining pitch shifting in a feedback loop with reverb just sound so good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBv6CXBS7Cg
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 06:01:37 PM by wimichae »
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Yavn

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2020, 09:03:49 AM »
So 3+ years and several pedals later I finally went for it and picked up a Blue Sky. Wow, wow, wow.the Prophet 08 sounds like a new instrument! 

I tried several other less expensive alternatives but once I heard the Strymon stuff I was hooked.  Yes, that shimmer is sweet.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think Im going to spend the next few months playing dreamy chords.

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 02:05:10 PM »
I'd love to hear a Prophet '08 through a Blue Sky.  Any recordings?
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

maxter

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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2020, 04:48:07 PM »
So 3+ years and several pedals later I finally went for it and picked up a Blue Sky. Wow, wow, wow.the Prophet 08 sounds like a new instrument! 

I tried several other less expensive alternatives but once I heard the Strymon stuff I was hooked.  Yes, that shimmer is sweet.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think Im going to spend the next few months playing dreamy chords.

"A chain is no stronger than its weakest link." As a note to others, while "more expensive" doesn't automatically mean "better quality", running a $1000 instrument into a $20 FX pedal may not be the perfect combination. The other way around; running a $20 instrument into a $1000 FX, isn't optimal either, but it's probably the better of the two scenarios, because the good part is at the end of the chain.

Think of it as having the most awesome lens and camera equipment, used with a 360p phone camera. No matter how good the lens is, the result will never be greater than 360p. Having good source material matters, but if run through a $20 pedal at the end of the chain, the sound will equal that of a $20 pedal. Unfortunately.

dmfs

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2020, 03:01:13 AM »
Ive got a Big Sky, Eventide Space and an old Sony MP5 effects unit for my P12 and P08.
the big sky is the bomb...!


Prophet 12 ,Prophet 08 SE ,Tempest, OB6,Moog Taurus 3 , Moog Minitaur , K5000s, JDXA, BSII

Quai34

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Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2020, 04:23:35 PM »
I have the Eventide H9 on,my P08, perfect and yes, the shimmer Reverb is awesome too.... It still have to buy one of the styrmon effect just to compare.... Buy my next purchase will be a second used H9 because, as I 'be already max out the first one, the second will have all the effects too.... For my P12.... For the moment, on the P12, I have TC corona chorus black edition (like the SCF chorus) plus TC helix phaser plus TC hall of fame.... Never had any issue with them, have them on my guitar pedalboard and on my Nord Lead 2X
Stage 2, NL2X+TC Pedals, Nord C2, Matrix 1000 X2, Proteus 2000, Prophet 12 & P08//Tetra+Eventide H9, TX802, Roland D50+PG1000, AX5080, AX keytar, Waldorf Streichfett, 2 Yorkville PS-10P, Bass: Ibanez SR1200+G&L L2000. Guitars: G&L Legacy HSS, Asat Blueboys, Asat Deluxe Savanna, Ibanez Artstar AS153

Re: External effects recommendations?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2020, 06:51:01 AM »
Moin

I also use the H9 to good effect (pun intended). Although it features stereo ins and outs, I still use it with the mixer (see post above). It is a very good general effects unit, and if I had to restrict myself to one single unit, I would always choose the H9.

But I am happy to have acquired a Moog MIDI-MurF: Not Your everyday use, but If You are into some strange rhythmic and/or formant-related effects or simply want to give standard-drones some kind of didgeridoo-flair in order to avoid standard-boredom, it is a great thing. Unfortunately it used to be expensive and is discontinued without replacement or something similar at reach.

Martin