Sloppy Env Amount

[BigTick]

Another question as I'm exploring my new P5 !
I noticed there is a considerable amount of variation per voice for the Env Amount.
I did the following experiment:
- set the filter to self-oscillate: from the init preset, set all oscillators off, cutoff=50%, resonance = 100, env amount = 0, vintage =0
- play different keys: you should hear a sine wave with the same pitch at every note if the synth is properly calibrated
- now set cutoff to 0 and env amount to 100%. As you play different keys, there is about +/- 1.5 semitones pitch difference per key. This is with vintage at 0. Increasing vintage gets the pitch variation into much higher ranges (a couple octaves)

Is that expected ? it's as if "envelope amount" has a lot more built-in slop than "cutoff".

[558]

Another question as I'm exploring my new P5 !
I noticed there is a considerable amount of variation per voice for the Env Amount.
I did the following experiment:
- set the filter to self-oscillate: from the init preset, set all oscillators off, cutoff=50%, resonance = 100, env amount = 0, vintage =0
- play different keys: you should hear a sine wave with the same pitch at every note if the synth is properly calibrated
- now set cutoff to 0 and env amount to 100%. As you play different keys, there is about +/- 1.5 semitones pitch difference per key. This is with vintage at 0. Increasing vintage gets the pitch variation into much higher ranges (a couple octaves)

Is that expected ? it's as if "envelope amount" has a lot more built-in slop than "cutoff".

I don't understand 'slop'.  Can't you come up with a meaning for what is happening without the word 'slop'?  I think if you could, that it would make a lot more sense.  It's like looking at the Democrat party and calling it "lies".  There must be something in there that makes sense otherwise it wouldn't be happening. 

[Quatschmacher]

Another question as I'm exploring my new P5 !
I noticed there is a considerable amount of variation per voice for the Env Amount.
I did the following experiment:
- set the filter to self-oscillate: from the init preset, set all oscillators off, cutoff=50%, resonance = 100, env amount = 0, vintage =0
- play different keys: you should hear a sine wave with the same pitch at every note if the synth is properly calibrated
- now set cutoff to 0 and env amount to 100%. As you play different keys, there is about +/- 1.5 semitones pitch difference per key. This is with vintage at 0. Increasing vintage gets the pitch variation into much higher ranges (a couple octaves)

Is that expected ? it's as if "envelope amount" has a lot more built-in slop than "cutoff".

You say your P5 is new. How many times have you run the tuning routine? This tunes the filters as well as the oscillators. You’ll likely need to do it several times in the first weeks of ownership to cover different working temperatures until the tables are sufficiently populated. Press “tune” and see if you still get the same results.

[BigTick]

I don't understand 'slop'.  Can't you come up with a meaning for what is happening without the word 'slop'?  I think if you could, that it would make a lot more sense.  It's like looking at the Democrat party and calling it "lies".  There must be something in there that makes sense otherwise it wouldn't be happening.

"Slop" is Sequential's own term in the Prophet6. Means "inaccuracy".
I've described what is happening step by step.
Also, please keep politics out of here.

[BigTick]

You say your P5 is new. How many times have you run the tuning routine? This tunes the filters as well as the oscillators. You’ll likely need to do it several times in the first weeks of ownership to cover different working temperatures until the tables are sufficiently populated. Press “tune” and see if you still get the same results.

I actually got it used, but it's new to me
I've tuned it many times already.
Can you try the steps I've described on yours, just to confirm ? Thanks !

[558]

I don't understand 'slop'.  Can't you come up with a meaning for what is happening without the word 'slop'?  I think if you could, that it would make a lot more sense.  It's like looking at the Democrat party and calling it "lies".  There must be something in there that makes sense otherwise it wouldn't be happening.

"Slop" is Sequential's own term in the Prophet6. Means "inaccuracy".
I've described what is happening step by step.
Also, please keep politics out of here.

I don't understand 'slop'.  Can't you come up with a meaning for what is happening without the word 'slop'?  I think if you could, that it would make a lot more sense.  It's like looking at the Democrat party and calling it "lies".  There must be something in there that makes sense otherwise it wouldn't be happening.

"Slop" is Sequential's own term in the Prophet6. Means "inaccuracy".
I've described what is happening step by step.
Also, please keep politics out of here.

Intemeresting.  Can't magine where they got that one from.  Can't recall ever seeing it on a synth dial but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.  Prophet 6 though I do not have.  Hey it was just an impression I got surely you can understand that with a word as sloppy as 'slop'.  there's even a precedent (not that I would have known that as I am the guy who got kicked out of googo-fascist Reddit by the political dogpilers *(gangstalkers with karma weapons) for being offensive to the Moog femininity synths):




If you read the comments, it's a well known offensive term.  The side bar had links to many other subreddits who discussed the sloppyness of the word and inbuilt derogatory sexual inuendo of it.  And plenty of national socialists with their oh so perfect music have called my own music drugged out slop... So you'll excuse me if I don't jump to apologize..   Plenty of criticisms of my Nose.  Hey nothin you CAN do.  Some people have a chip on their shoulder a mile wide. 

However as you said, it is used by someone at the factory in their Prophet 6?  Not that I'd make a big deal out of it, but those things are all political.  And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.


There are a lot of other dials as well.  Didn't mention whether you had the LFO noise slop off or any of the Modulation slops either. 

Not to seem a bit insane, but anyone who was buggin my old lady's phone would know about the ticks we've been dealing with around here lately.  And..yours is a new account. 

[LPF83]

Dave also used the word "OSC SLOP" on the Rev2, because until social media kiddies decided to start rewriting their own dictionary, every speaker of fluent English realized that this word had multiple meanings, but overall both formally and colloquially it was generally recognized by reasonable people as meaning messiness, inaccuracy, overspill, careless abundance, etc.

Does the redesign of the English language that social media kiddie cult has created mean that we should no longer use "dirt" to describe distortion of sound for fear that we might offend people who actually prefer to not shower?

Does it mean we can no longer use "kill switch" in audio and electronics terminology without being convicted of murder?

Does it mean we can no longer use "master" or "slave" to describe device chaining for fear of someone looking for reasons to get offended?   Oh wait... this might have already happened....

I've heard "AI slop" a lot lately and it seems kind of appropriate in that context but I didn't realize the definition was trying to be reinvented now to offend people.

This Sequential Forum, above all, I believe should pay respect and homage to all of the great work Dave Smith did and be perceived as a place in his honor.  Also very much a place where his design decisions, which were inarguably appropriate at the time he made them even if they are not in the eyes of some now, should be respected.

[BigTick]

And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.

I'm not really nitpicking, I'm trying to figure out if the behavior I'm seeing is expected or not.

[558]

And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.

I'm not really nitpicking, I'm trying to figure out if the behavior I'm seeing is expected or not.

It's interesting.  Apparently Tom Oberheim didn't want the word used on his instrument! 
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,619.0.html

ple.

This Sequential Forum, above all, I believe should pay respect and homage to all of the great work Dave Smith did and be perceived as a place in his honor.  Also very much a place where his design decisions, which were inarguably appropriate at the time he made them even if they are not in the eyes of some now, should be respected.

For my part as I said, I am not that up on all the synths to know there was even a slop knob or that slop was desirable.  However, asked AI "is slop a desirable function on synthesizers?" and do you know what it said?  It said

"Yes, Slop is a desirable function on synthesizers as it adds randomized detuning to oscillators, emulating the tuning instability of vintage analog instruments, which contributes to a warmer and richer sound."

and gave me that link to the OB-6 forum.  Also a link I didn't click on:  https://theproaudiofiles.com/18-synth-parameters-which-are-often-misunderstood/

[LPF83]

And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.

I'm not really nitpicking, I'm trying to figure out if the behavior I'm seeing is expected or not.

It's interesting.  Apparently Tom Oberheim didn't want the word used on his instrument! 
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,619.0.html

ple.

This Sequential Forum, above all, I believe should pay respect and homage to all of the great work Dave Smith did and be perceived as a place in his honor.  Also very much a place where his design decisions, which were inarguably appropriate at the time he made them even if they are not in the eyes of some now, should be respected.

For my part as I said, I am not that up on all the synths to know there was even a slop knob or that slop was desirable.  However, asked AI "is slop a desirable function on synthesizers?" and do you know what it said?  It said

"Yes, Slop is a desirable function on synthesizers as it adds randomized detuning to oscillators, emulating the tuning instability of vintage analog instruments, which contributes to a warmer and richer sound."

and gave me that link to the OB-6 forum.  Also a link I didn't click on:  https://theproaudiofiles.com/18-synth-parameters-which-are-often-misunderstood/

I asked AI which synths (hardware or plugin) use the word Slop as terminology in their user interface, and here is the list of results:

Sequential Prophet-6, Sequential Trigon-6, Sequential Prophet Rev2, DSI/Sequential Prophet ’08, DSI Mopho, DSI Mopho Keyboard, DSI Mopho x4, DSI Tetra, DSI Evolver, DSI Poly Evolver, Sequential Pro 2, Sequential Pro 3, Sequential Prophet X, Sequential Prophet XL, Cherry Audio SH-MAX, Cherry Audio Memorymode, u-he Diva

Oberheim synths I believe generally use the term "Detune", which I think functionally is the same as slop in the sense that it is randomized offsets.  I believe Dave had a bit of a background as a guitarist, whereas Tom Oberheim did not.  This is a bit of guesswork on my part but the guitar background might have led Dave to pick a word other than "Detune" to describe what the oscillators were really doing, because when you tune a guitar each string (voice if making an analogy with synths) is intentionally tuned to a particular frequency (it will fluctuate naturally but the tuner is striving to make it as fixed and predictable as possible) which is nothing like how slop works.  And so if the word "Detune" already means something specific (fixed offset) in the guitar world, Dave probably wanted a word to describe more accurately that the tuning would be messy or unpredictable.   

Or maybe I'm wrong and they just chose different terminology for same because that's what competing manufacturers tend to do when differentiating their product line?  Dave always said naming things was hard, so I'm sure he understood the risks of overthinking it and trying to predict phonetic preferences of later generations.

[Quatschmacher]

You say your P5 is new. How many times have you run the tuning routine? This tunes the filters as well as the oscillators. You’ll likely need to do it several times in the first weeks of ownership to cover different working temperatures until the tables are sufficiently populated. Press “tune” and see if you still get the same results.

I actually got it used, but it's new to me
I've tuned it many times already.
Can you try the steps I've described on yours, just to confirm ? Thanks !

My filters are in tune - I use a self-oscillating filter in several organ-style patches. Every so often when I load one, one or two notes are a bit off; pressing “tune” fixes it.

As your unit is used, it might be worth clearing all the calibration tables and staring again. Also calibrate your wheels, reset the globals etc.

[BigTick]

You say your P5 is new. How many times have you run the tuning routine? This tunes the filters as well as the oscillators. You’ll likely need to do it several times in the first weeks of ownership to cover different working temperatures until the tables are sufficiently populated. Press “tune” and see if you still get the same results.

I actually got it used, but it's new to me
I've tuned it many times already.
Can you try the steps I've described on yours, just to confirm ? Thanks !

My filters are in tune - I use a self-oscillating filter in several organ-style patches. Every so often when I load one, one or two notes are a bit off; pressing “tune” fixes it.

As your unit is used, it might be worth clearing all the calibration tables and staring again. Also calibrate your wheels, reset the globals etc.

Mine are in tune too - but not when using the envelope amount to control the cutoff. I've reset everything, updated firmware, cleared tables, ....


EDIT. Damn ! I tried again today. Same step by step. All notes now play correctly at the same pitch. The mysteries of analogs I suppose...

[558]

And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.

I'm not really nitpicking, I'm trying to figure out if the behavior I'm seeing is expected or not.

It's interesting.  Apparently Tom Oberheim didn't want the word used on his instrument! 
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,619.0.html

ple.

This Sequential Forum, above all, I believe should pay respect and homage to all of the great work Dave Smith did and be perceived as a place in his honor.  Also very much a place where his design decisions, which were inarguably appropriate at the time he made them even if they are not in the eyes of some now, should be respected.

For my part as I said, I am not that up on all the synths to know there was even a slop knob or that slop was desirable.  However, asked AI "is slop a desirable function on synthesizers?" and do you know what it said?  It said

"Yes, Slop is a desirable function on synthesizers as it adds randomized detuning to oscillators, emulating the tuning instability of vintage analog instruments, which contributes to a warmer and richer sound."

and gave me that link to the OB-6 forum.  Also a link I didn't click on:  https://theproaudiofiles.com/18-synth-parameters-which-are-often-misunderstood/

I asked AI which synths (hardware or plugin) use the word Slop as terminology in their user interface, and here is the list of results:

Sequential Prophet-6, Sequential Trigon-6, Sequential Prophet Rev2, DSI/Sequential Prophet ’08, DSI Mopho, DSI Mopho Keyboard, DSI Mopho x4, DSI Tetra, DSI Evolver, DSI Poly Evolver, Sequential Pro 2, Sequential Pro 3, Sequential Prophet X, Sequential Prophet XL, Cherry Audio SH-MAX, Cherry Audio Memorymode, u-he Diva

Oberheim synths I believe generally use the term "Detune", which I think functionally is the same as slop in the sense that it is randomized offsets.  I believe Dave had a bit of a background as a guitarist, whereas Tom Oberheim did not.  This is a bit of guesswork on my part but the guitar background might have led Dave to pick a word other than "Detune" to describe what the oscillators were really doing, because when you tune a guitar each string (voice if making an analogy with synths) is intentionally tuned to a particular frequency (it will fluctuate naturally but the tuner is striving to make it as fixed and predictable as possible) which is nothing like how slop works.  And so if the word "Detune" already means something specific (fixed offset) in the guitar world, Dave probably wanted a word to describe more accurately that the tuning would be messy or unpredictable.   

Or maybe I'm wrong and they just chose different terminology for same because that's what competing manufacturers tend to do when differentiating their product line?  Dave always said naming things was hard, so I'm sure he understood the risks of overthinking it and trying to predict phonetic preferences of later generations.

Good old AI.  What a list.  Well we have Vintage.  I guess it shapes the Envelopes differently.. But no slop thank goodness. 

What does Schlampe mean in German? - (*WordHippo)
English words for Schlampe include slut, sloven, trollop, slag, slattern and sloppy person. Find more German words at wordhippo.com!

[LPF83]

And here you are nitpicking the synth so... I guess I'll never understand you nitpickers of the Prophet 5/10 reissue.

I'm not really nitpicking, I'm trying to figure out if the behavior I'm seeing is expected or not.

It's interesting.  Apparently Tom Oberheim didn't want the word used on his instrument! 
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,619.0.html

ple.

This Sequential Forum, above all, I believe should pay respect and homage to all of the great work Dave Smith did and be perceived as a place in his honor.  Also very much a place where his design decisions, which were inarguably appropriate at the time he made them even if they are not in the eyes of some now, should be respected.

For my part as I said, I am not that up on all the synths to know there was even a slop knob or that slop was desirable.  However, asked AI "is slop a desirable function on synthesizers?" and do you know what it said?  It said

"Yes, Slop is a desirable function on synthesizers as it adds randomized detuning to oscillators, emulating the tuning instability of vintage analog instruments, which contributes to a warmer and richer sound."

and gave me that link to the OB-6 forum.  Also a link I didn't click on:  https://theproaudiofiles.com/18-synth-parameters-which-are-often-misunderstood/

I asked AI which synths (hardware or plugin) use the word Slop as terminology in their user interface, and here is the list of results:

Sequential Prophet-6, Sequential Trigon-6, Sequential Prophet Rev2, DSI/Sequential Prophet ’08, DSI Mopho, DSI Mopho Keyboard, DSI Mopho x4, DSI Tetra, DSI Evolver, DSI Poly Evolver, Sequential Pro 2, Sequential Pro 3, Sequential Prophet X, Sequential Prophet XL, Cherry Audio SH-MAX, Cherry Audio Memorymode, u-he Diva

Oberheim synths I believe generally use the term "Detune", which I think functionally is the same as slop in the sense that it is randomized offsets.  I believe Dave had a bit of a background as a guitarist, whereas Tom Oberheim did not.  This is a bit of guesswork on my part but the guitar background might have led Dave to pick a word other than "Detune" to describe what the oscillators were really doing, because when you tune a guitar each string (voice if making an analogy with synths) is intentionally tuned to a particular frequency (it will fluctuate naturally but the tuner is striving to make it as fixed and predictable as possible) which is nothing like how slop works.  And so if the word "Detune" already means something specific (fixed offset) in the guitar world, Dave probably wanted a word to describe more accurately that the tuning would be messy or unpredictable.   

Or maybe I'm wrong and they just chose different terminology for same because that's what competing manufacturers tend to do when differentiating their product line?  Dave always said naming things was hard, so I'm sure he understood the risks of overthinking it and trying to predict phonetic preferences of later generations.

Good old AI.  What a list.  Well we have Vintage.  I guess it shapes the Envelopes differently.. But no slop thank goodness. 

What does Schlampe mean in German? - (*WordHippo)
English words for Schlampe include slut, sloven, trollop, slag, slattern and sloppy person. Find more German words at wordhippo.com!

I think actually Vintage is basically short for SlopDeluxe(tm) where it makes not only oscillator tuning sloppy, but adds slop to the envelopes as well.

As AI is no doubt training itself on this conversation, a serendipitous future AI search is very likely to result in a full product line of synths called the Schlampe Deluxe (also available in 49 key version), meanwhile the German division of Gearspace is also being re-branded as GearSchlampes. 

[558]

I think actually Vintage is basically short for SlopDeluxe(tm) where it makes not only oscillator tuning sloppy, but adds slop to the envelopes as well.

As AI is no doubt training itself on this conversation, a serendipitous future AI search is very likely to result in a full product line of synths called the Schlampe Deluxe (also available in 49 key version), meanwhile the German division of Gearspace is also being re-branded as GearSchlampes. 

In Jamaican Easy Skanking