A couple Polychain issues

[Microkid42]

Hi all,

Just wondering how many folks have experimented with Polychaining in the new beta OS. I picked up a used TEO module to go with my keyboard version, updated the OS on both, and I'm loving the results. A TEO-10 is the bomb! Playing both via the keyboard version works exactly as expected with no glitches that I can find.

A couple issues via MIDI, though:
1. Sending a MIDI patch change to the Leader TEO does not change the patch on the Follower. I made sure to back up all of my banks and then send them to the Module so that the patches would line up, but nothing I can figure out will get the Follower TEO to change patches when the Leader TEO does. The only way is to physically change the patch on the Leader.

2. Similar issue with MIDI CC. For instance, on the stock OB-XPad patch, the mod wheel on my controller keyboard will increase the filter cutoff only on the Leader TEO, not the follower. Again, using the mod wheel on the Leader itself does change the filter value for both TEOs.

I'm guessing issue #2 is because they the leader is now set to receive Controller changes via NRPN values (as per the instructions on setting up polychaining), which my main keyboard (Nord Stage 3) does not send.

Hoping that there is a workaround for issue #2, but definitely a fix for issue #1.

I also note that Polychain only seems to work correctly if the Follower TEO is set to MIDI Channel ALL, even though I can set the Leader to whatever channel I want.

[Microkid42]

Okay I have to update this, rather than edit the original. My Nord (and my OXI One mk2) DO send most CCs to both TEOs at the same time, just not mod wheel or CC7 (volume). CC 33 (filter) works just fine, as does pitch bend and a few others.

CC7 volume (sends only to the Leader but not to the Follower. Same with Mod Wheel.

[gus]

Thanks for reporting these! I've reproduced and logged both issues - the latter problem does seem more like a configuration limitation, but I've documented it regardless.

[kpatz]

I don't fully understand how the polychain works since I don't have two of the same synth (I have a Take 5 and a TEO-5), but one quirk it has it it sends on one midi channel higher than the set channel on the synth, so if your midi channel is set to 1, the polychain notes send on channel 2.  Presumably the receiving synth "knows" when polychain is active based on the NRPNs set when turning it on so it receives the notes on the higher channel but should still receive pitchbend and mod wheel on the original channel.

With some midi remapping trickery on my MioXL (remapping notes and CCs/NRPNs to the same channel) I was able to polychain my Take 5 to my TEO-5, and even got the "polychain" message to appear on the TEO-5's display, but it doesn't appear to recognize the "one channel higher" thing, I had to send everything on the channel the receiving synth was set to.  Maybe due to the different NRPNs the Take 5 and TEO-5 send.

I also note that Polychain only seems to work correctly if the Follower TEO is set to MIDI Channel ALL, even though I can set the Leader to whatever channel I want.

This is probably related to the polychained notes being sent one channel higher than the set midi channel on the sending synth.  The receiving synth should "know" this and receive the notes on that channel, but if it doesn't, that's a bug I think.  If that's the case, you'd have to set the receiving synth to receive on all channels (omni on), or remap the midi channels between the two synths with a computer or a MioXL or similiar.

[Microkid42]

Thanks for reporting these! I've reproduced and logged both issues - the latter problem does seem more like a configuration limitation, but I've documented it regardless.

Thanks!!

[Microkid42]

I don't fully understand how the polychain works since I don't have two of the same synth (I have a Take 5 and a TEO-5), but one quirk it has it it sends on one midi channel higher than the set channel on the synth, so if your midi channel is set to 1, the polychain notes send on channel 2.  Presumably the receiving synth "knows" when polychain is active based on the NRPNs set when turning it on so it receives the notes on the higher channel but should still receive pitchbend and mod wheel on the original channel.

With some midi remapping trickery on my MioXL (remapping notes and CCs/NRPNs to the same channel) I was able to polychain my Take 5 to my TEO-5, and even got the "polychain" message to appear on the TEO-5's display, but it doesn't appear to recognize the "one channel higher" thing, I had to send everything on the channel the receiving synth was set to.  Maybe due to the different NRPNs the Take 5 and TEO-5 send.

I also note that Polychain only seems to work correctly if the Follower TEO is set to MIDI Channel ALL, even though I can set the Leader to whatever channel I want.

This is probably related to the polychained notes being sent one channel higher than the set midi channel on the sending synth.  The receiving synth should "know" this and receive the notes on that channel, but if it doesn't, that's a bug I think.  If that's the case, you'd have to set the receiving synth to receive on all channels (omni on), or remap the midi channels between the two synths with a computer or a MioXL or similiar.

So true. If I try set the Follower to the same channel as the Leader, or set it one channel higher, not only does it not fix the patch change and volume CC issue, it actually doesn't respond correctly to playing on the Leader synth. (Only about half the notes I play on the Leader's keybed sound at all).

I also have a MioXL and might fool around with remapping later to see if I can make anything else happen. Thanks for the response!

[kpatz]

So true. If I try set the Follower to the same channel as the Leader, or set it one channel higher, not only does it not fix the patch change and volume CC issue, it actually doesn't respond correctly to playing on the Leader synth. (Only about half the notes I play on the Leader's keybed sound at all).

I also have a MioXL and might fool around with remapping later to see if I can make anything else happen. Thanks for the response!

When playing notes on the leader synth, 5 consecutive notes play on the leader synth (and don't go out thru the midi port), and then the next 5 consecutive notes are sent (on midi channel one higher than the set channel) out the midi port to the follower synth.  If you're only hearing 5 notes at a time, check and see which synth you are hearing (probably the leader).  If the follower isn't responding, check the midi settings (channel, port etc.).  Note that polychain only sends over DIN, not USB, so the leader synth needs to be connected to the follower synth via DIN.  The follower can "listen" over USB (if using something like a MioXL or computer to convert), but sending polychain notes is only over DIN.

Also check that the follower synth is set to listen on DIN (unless using USB with the MioXL for the follower).  Initially I'd connect the two synths with a midi cable to eliminate as many variables as possible, make sure both are set to MIDI instead of USB, and have control send/receive set to NRPN, and try the same midi channel on both, midi channel +1 on the follower,  and MIDI channel ALL on the follower to see what works.

I have a video where I demonstrate polychaining a Take 5 (leader) to a TEO-5 (follower) using MioXL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzcRVWaRJis

[Microkid42]

So true. If I try set the Follower to the same channel as the Leader, or set it one channel higher, not only does it not fix the patch change and volume CC issue, it actually doesn't respond correctly to playing on the Leader synth. (Only about half the notes I play on the Leader's keybed sound at all).

I also have a MioXL and might fool around with remapping later to see if I can make anything else happen. Thanks for the response!

When playing notes on the leader synth, 5 consecutive notes play on the leader synth (and don't go out thru the midi port), and then the next 5 consecutive notes are sent (on midi channel one higher than the set channel) out the midi port to the follower synth.  If you're only hearing 5 notes at a time, check and see which synth you are hearing (probably the leader).  If the follower isn't responding, check the midi settings (channel, port etc.).  Note that polychain only sends over DIN, not USB, so the leader synth needs to be connected to the follower synth via DIN.  The follower can "listen" over USB (if using something like a MioXL or computer to convert), but sending polychain notes is only over DIN.

Also check that the follower synth is set to listen on DIN (unless using USB with the MioXL for the follower).  Initially I'd connect the two synths with a midi cable to eliminate as many variables as possible, make sure both are set to MIDI instead of USB, and have control send/receive set to NRPN, and try the same midi channel on both, midi channel +1 on the follower,  and MIDI channel ALL on the follower to see what works.

I have a video where I demonstrate polychaining a Take 5 (leader) to a TEO-5 (follower) using MioXL.

Haha I actually watched that vid when I got the TEO Module and wanted to do Polychain. The only other video I'd seen was Devin Belanger showing it off, but not explaining how it was done. Your video was so helpful!

Again to be clear, Polychain is working great for me in terms of notes, whether playing from the Leader or playing via MIDI (and I'm using DIN, not USB, for the two TEOs). It sounds huge and amazing.

The only issue I'm having is that a MIDI patch change to the Leader is not being sent to the follower, nor is MIDI volume (CC7) nor MIDI Mod wheel. The Leader continues to respond to those things as before, but it doesn't pass them on to the Follower.

[kpatz]

I have a hunch that there's still some bugs around Polychain.  The fact that the leader synth sends notes on a higher midi channel than normal causes issues that the follower synth apparently doesn't (currently) take into account, such as expecting the notes and CC/NRPN/program changes/pitchbend on the two different channels.  I wonder if, during development, a decision was made partway through and the firmware didn't get updated for both the sending and receiving side to recognize the midi channel setup that ended up being implemented.  Like one hand didn't know what the other was doing.

Remapping the channels to a single one with a MioXL or DAW or something helps get around these issues.  Presumably setting the follower synth to midi channel "ALL" works too, though I haven't tried this myself.

Also, if you send midi TO the leader synth (such as when polychaining two modules, or using a DAW or a controller to control the two together as a single unit), it seems that the messages don't necessarily get passed through the leader to the follower.  Notes do, since the leader synth has to divvy those up, but CCs, pitchbend, program changes etc. apparently aren't.

[gus]

I have a hunch that there's still some bugs around Polychain.  The fact that the leader synth sends notes on a higher midi channel than normal causes issues that the follower synth apparently doesn't (currently) take into account, such as expecting the notes and CC/NRPN/program changes/pitchbend on the two different channels.  I wonder if, during development, a decision was made partway through and the firmware didn't get updated for both the sending and receiving side to recognize the midi channel setup that ended up being implemented.  Like one hand didn't know what the other was doing.

Remapping the channels to a single one with a MioXL or DAW or something helps get around these issues.  Presumably setting the follower synth to midi channel "ALL" works too, though I haven't tried this myself.

Also, if you send midi TO the leader synth (such as when polychaining two modules, or using a DAW or a controller to control the two together as a single unit), it seems that the messages don't necessarily get passed through the leader to the follower.  Notes do, since the leader synth has to divvy those up, but CCs, pitchbend, program changes etc. apparently aren't.

Thanks for pointing these out - we're aware of the midi channel problem and it is on our list. If you notice any other polychain bugs, please let us know!

[Deep_Sea_Waves]

I am having polychain issues and would like some help.  I can get the second unit to show the polychain on screen but when I play they keyboard I do not hear the notes from the second unit.  I assume that all 4 audio channels are needed to be able to record the 10 notes or do you only need the top unit's 2 audio outputs?

How do you save the parameters to get into the polychain state or do you have to enter these everytime you want to polychain the two units?