jok3r's gear rant thread

[jok3r]

So, to not flood the "Your Music" thread any further with my synth and gear problems, I decided to revive the good ol' tradition to start my personal "gear rant thread". Even if I'm not ranting as much as some of our beloved former forum members did, at least the other thread will be spared.

What happened in the last days? As some of you know, I sold my matriarch. In this years spring, I already sold my Novation PEAK and some other gear like drum machines and launchpads. I sold the stuff, because I didn't use it anymore. Having two little kids around, the priorities are elsewhere at the moment. I don't like to own stuff, just for for the purpose of owning it. If I don't use it, it has to go. I'm even selling books that I finished reading, something I could never imagine few years ago, being a big book lover.

Just to rant a little: the kids aren't the only reason why I didn't use this gear as much as e.g. my Rev2. Both synth were impractical for my needs. We discussed the matriarch already... having no presets was just not fitting to my style of doing things. Having the PEAK for some years, I noticed that I don't like modules. Having to use a midi keyboard all the time was going on my nerves. I like a self contained instrument. Power on and play.

With the budget from my sales and the thougts above I visited Thomann today. Since every other manufacturer than Sequential/Oberheim just isn't my thing (most of them just don't have the same feel... i touched some of them today...), it came down to P-10, Trigon-6, OB-6, OB-X8 and P-6, which I tested today.

Some thoughts:

OB-X8 just isn't what I was looking for with this whole page 2 thing. As I said elsewhere: if I want to menue dive, I use my Rev2. I tried it nonetheless side by side with an OB-6. Big surprise: I liked the OB-6 more, although the OB-X8 seems to be the "holy grail" for a lot of people. But overall I just noticed again that I'm more the Prophet guy than the Obie guy.

The P-6 wasn't there for testing this time. But I played that synth everytime I've been there since it was published, so I tested it a lot already. I always liked it, but simply have not been in need of a synth like this in the last few years.

I played the P-10 before today, too, but always in a hurry. Today was the first time I had several hours with it. It really sounds very good for a synth with a single mono output. It felt like playing a real instrument. I can understand why it is the King of all Synth for some.

The T-6 wasn't there at first, but while I did a little coffee break, they picked one from the warehouse for me, so I could test it, too. And BAM! I played the first few factory patches and immediately loved it. What a great instrument. After loading the init patch I tried some things myself and most of the time used only one oscillator, because it was so rich. I stopped that after an hour, gave the man my credit card an took this beast with me.

So I'm a happy Trigon-6 owner now. The P-10 was very cool, too, but I realized, that I like modern analogue more than vintage. The Trigon-6 has exactly the sound I was after. Seems to be an unholy union of OB, Prophet and Moog.

Let's see where this will go...

They already had the Elektron Tonverk there, that was anounced yesterday. Almost bought that, too. But after using it for some minutes I realized that I had to learn a lot about this machine and the Elektron way of doing things before I can produce some valuable output with this. So I left it where it was... too fiddly for me at the moment. I just want to play something and if I like it, I record it, playing it live or using some helpers in my DAW that I already know how to use. No time for learning new machines at the moment.

Another great thing to test was the Rhodes MK8. I didn't realize they are selling these. My last knowledge was that you have to pre-order it at Rhodes directly. So it was very nice to finally play on such a fine instrument today. I really liked it and had a lot of fun. They have a unit with effects section in the store, so I could test everything this e piano can do. I loved it really very much, but at 13k in this configuration, it is way to expensive for what it is. Besides feeling the real mechanics, there was no benefit soundwise in using the real thing over the very good emulations today. At least for my ears.

So I've been there the whole day... a really nice day. Now you'll find me at my Trigon ;-)

[LPF83]

Congrats on the Trigon6... I always say the instrument that inspires you the most is the one you'll get the best music out of, and every other factor comes secondary to that.  So it's great that you were able to spend a substantial amount of time with  the synths you were considering, that's how we did it back in the 80s.  I used to take my own headphones with me to a music store so as to not have to wonder how store configurations might be coloring the signal path and to have a baseline point of reference.

I haven't been able to do that in a very long time.  I'd say early 2000s was the last time I remember spending substantial amounts of time in a music store trying different synths, and even then it was hard to find something I was really interested in.

These days, YouTube has been the primary tool used for selection -- however that's never a one-day process... it's usually weeks or months of listening/watching before I make an educated guess on whether I will connect with a particular instrument in person.  The method does work -- even with YT compression, I can tell what my ears like and of course given enough demo or tutorial watching I can usually figure out whether I will vibe with the workflow.  But it's much slower and gradual grind to get to the point of a purchase decision.

[Soundquest]

Jok3r.  Just courious ...if you had to pick second place out of what you tried-what it would be?

[jok3r]

These days, YouTube has been the primary tool used for selection -- however that's never a one-day process... it's usually weeks or months of listening/watching before I make an educated guess on whether I will connect with a particular instrument in person.  The method does work -- even with YT compression, I can tell what my ears like and of course given enough demo or tutorial watching I can usually figure out whether I will vibe with the workflow.  But it's much slower and gradual grind to get to the point of a purchase decision.

I watched a lot of videos before driving to Thomann, too. I think that's the channel for first informations and the rough direction for everyone nowadays. But having the luck living "next to" Thomann, I never bought a synth or any instrument without testing it beforehand. With such a big amount of synths to test there, even a whole day is not enough to test them all in depth.

There are some simple criterions that I use to filter out the stuff I'm not even interested in. The obvious one is the sound, but that's not all. The instrument (not only synth) can sound as good as it wants, if it's a) ugly (for my taste) or b) feels like low quality built. The workflow is another important factor.

The looks kicked out all the UDO, Groove Synthesis and Arturia stuff. It's just not my kind of thing. I'm very classic in this way and like the Sequential, Oberheim and Moog designs the most.

Low quality feel kicked out the whole Behringer stuff... besides other reasons. But I layed my hands on the UB-Xa for 20 seconds and went on, without even taking place before the synth. Just felt as cheap as it is... same for the Moog Muse. No sound test required... already the feel is not right for me. Since I'm a live player most of the time, playing piano style with my hands, this is a really important point. And you can not feel this through Youtube ;-) Ordering and sending back things, is something I do not want to do, because of ecological reasons. I understand that some people far off the next music store don't have another chance to lay their hands on something. But I have... so no ordering, testing and sending back for me.

The workflow kicked out the OB-X8 for me... as I said... I wasn't looking for a menue diving instrument, nor a modulation monster. My Rev2 does that very well... even if a lot of people don't like it's filter. Workflow is another thing, I can't judge based on youtube videos. In videos I like the workflow of the Elektron stuff very much... but in the real world you realize theres quite a learning curve. The guys doing all the videos know what they are doing, so it looks smooth when they do it. When I am standing in front of this new Tonverk or Digitakt, even the simplest things take so much time, that it really puts me off.

There is a lot of other stuff from Korg, etc... but that just wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted to have another analogue poly synth with a simple interface and good sound. All the digital stuff is of no interest for me at the moment...

Taking all this into account, there were only the 6-Series and a Prophet 10 left. The even smaller keyboards of the Take-5 and TEO-5 are putting me off also. The 4-octaves of the 6-series are the absolute minimum I can live with, but only knowing there is at least another 61-keys instrument on stage with it (and my Kronos 88 most of the time).

Jok3r.  Just courious ...if you had to pick second place out of what you tried-what it would be?

That's a really good question. Hm... the Prophet-10 was really a nice instrument under my fingers. On the other hand, I like effects and a slight stereo panning of the different voices very much. Also some of the modern gimmicks in the 6-series are missing in the P-10. I could add that via Midi, at least at home. The P-10 would not leave the house for gigging anyway. On the other hand, I like to have synth that I can play live, because I use them more. The costs are more justified this way. Not because I could not afford it... but justified before myself.

Knowing that I also have the holy Strymon Mobius, Timeline and BigSky combo ready for use on a pedalboard, the P-10 could get a serious upgrade in my living room. But then it's still just there. So today I would tend to some other 6-series keyboard. Just for practical reasons. The sound is cool on any of them. At least for my ears.

Without having the chance to hear them side by side, I could not decide if I would choose the P-6 over the OB-6. Isolated, I like the P-6 more... but having the T-6 now, perhaps the OB-6 would be the better companion. The P-6 can do a lot of things... the OB-6 does, what it does...

Soooooo.... ... ... P-6 it is... just because I always loved it. OB-6 third place... somehow it is interesting for me to own the whole 6-series now. They all have something to offer...

Does this sound crazy?

[LPF83]

Just a few thoughts...  I don't think wanting or aiming to own the T6, P6 and OB6 all at once would be crazy or a bad goal at all.  What I call my "primary studio setup" is the P10+P6+OB6+P12 all on one Jasper's stand, with the OB-X8 desktop connected to a controller directly to the right of that.  The first three of those, the workflow feels very familiar between the three...  I mean the P10 is dead simple, and then the P6 and OB6 work almost identically, things are in different places but the concepts are the same...  so that "Sequential familiarity" is important to me in workflow.   The OB-X8 and P12 are a little more menu divey at times, but they each have their charm and strength that make it worth it.  The OB-6 and OB-X8 are of the same ilk, but I don't think they're interchangeable, which is why I kept and still love my OB-6 after getting the OB-X8.  The menu situation on the OB-X8 is probably not as bad as it might seem in a store... but again I have the desktop, the keyboard version of the OB-X8 was larger than I was willing to deal with, I prefer wheels to levers etc.   Since your needs involve gigging, portability becomes a thing and the T6/P6/OB6 form factor make a lot of sense for that use case.

I wouldn't count out the 3rd Wave based on the presets you probably heard in the store.  It's capable of crazy amounts more than that, which definitely don't get showcased by the shipped presets.  It does have a Sequential-like-feel to its workflow, coming from some of the same folks that worked on Sequential synths, and while it's so much more than a PPG Wave it isn't really the first synth I reach for if looking for fat analog bass or similar.  I'd call it more of a Roland sound when combined with the analog waveforms, then kind of sky is the limit when it comes to samples or wavetables.  For experimentation and sound design, off the charts.

If feel of the synth is important, I can see why you liked the P10.  It does have something with the way the keys feel to the fingers when they thump on the wood and metal, that really adds to the playing experience.  It will change ones perception of the importance of mono vs stereo as an overall compositional instrument.  In terms of which synth I enjoy just sitting down and playing, that one feels the best.  In terms of tone, I don't know but probably toss up between the P10 and the OB-X8...  they're both different tone-wise and of course OB-X8 wins the stereo race, but I love both of those instruments.

[Manbird]

I'm happy you went with the Trigon. I sometimes feel like a lonely Trigon guy on the forum!

I used to gig with a Prophet 5. Crazy days - I was a teen with a Toyota and no obvious back problems. I'd NEVER drag my new P5 to a gig now. The P6 or trigon, certainly. I see the P5 as it seems many of us do, as "an instrument," not just as a synth. I often think of it as a piano. It is what it is, and it's grand.

I've always been glad that Oberheim gear never quite grabbed me, but glad only for financial reasons. Still, I'd also be quite happy to add an OB6 to my stack of "6s" Collect all three!

I've not played a Muse, and while on paper I'd be temped to wish for one, there are only so many synths one can... I don't know how to finish this sentence!

But the Trigon... a gorgeous sounding creature. It can go dark and weird with the feedback options, which gives me a little bit of the Korg MS series vibe. Beautiful-meets-Frankenstein...

[jok3r]

I wouldn't count out the 3rd Wave based on the presets you probably heard in the store.  It's capable of crazy amounts more than that, which definitely don't get showcased by the shipped presets.  It does have a Sequential-like-feel to its workflow, coming from some of the same folks that worked on Sequential synths, and while it's so much more than a PPG Wave it isn't really the first synth I reach for if looking for fat analog bass or similar.  I'd call it more of a Roland sound when combined with the analog waveforms, then kind of sky is the limit when it comes to samples or wavetables.  For experimentation and sound design, off the charts.

It certainly is a stellar instrument soundwise. But as I said... I just don't like the look. And that's an important factor for me.

I'm happy you went with the Trigon. I sometimes feel like a lonely Trigon guy on the forum!

[...]

I've always been glad that Oberheim gear never quite grabbed me, but glad only for financial reasons. Still, I'd also be quite happy to add an OB6 to my stack of "6s" Collect all three!

[...]

But the Trigon... a gorgeous sounding creature. It can go dark and weird with the feedback options, which gives me a little bit of the Korg MS series vibe. Beautiful-meets-Frankenstein...

I'm very happy the first two nights with it. And even if there are a lot of people that don't like the presets... I'm playing through all 500 of them. Just to see what others did with this machine. After that, I will probably never play them again. There are still 100 left for tonight. I payed for them, so I will play them at least once 

The Oberheim gear grabbed me a lot, but just for the few signature sounds only this beasts can do. Apart from that I like the "multi purpose" sound of other synth more. So I think I would like to have an OB-6, too, but it has the lowest priority of the three six voice models.

I would like to A/B the P-6 and Trigon myself... there are a lot of people saying, that you don't need the P if you have the T? Manbird, what's your experience with them? Where do they differ?

[markwilkins]

I would like to A/B the P-6 and Trigon myself... there are a lot of people saying, that you don't need the P if you have the T?

I don't have the chops or the street cred of the others on this forum, but I suppose I can add one more data point. I bought a Prophet-6 in 2016 and the Trigon-6 two years ago. I love them both and can't imagine ever getting rid of either of them; I don't feel that they overlap very much at all.

When the Prophet-5/10 was reissued, I assumed I would eventually get one. Each point in time, however, when I thought it was appropriate to evaluate the P5 purchase, I listened to demos and samples and when I heard something that made me think "Must have in my own greedy hands for this sound", I went to the P6 and made a patch that (to me) was equivalently good and very similar (as much as one can tell when comparing to what is heard on Internet playback).

Two years ago when I was again thinking "hmmm ... now it is truly time for a P5", I ended up getting the Trigon instead and haven't regretted it at all. Compared to the P6, it feels more versatile and can find its way into a track more easily than the P6; this is a very subjective thing of course and probably mostly just reflects on my patch programming skills needing improvement. The T6 and P6 seem quite different and cover different ground for me. I'm sure it is possible to make many similar sounding patches on them, but their innate character leads me in different directions.

For me, some of the aspects that stand out on each of them:
 - Prophet-6: Dreamy beautiful smooth pads, atmospheric leads (whatever that means), sweet arpeggio sequences
 - Trigon-6: Rich evolving pads, bass lines, gritty leads, great at unison

Another thing that plays a part in this for me is studio configuration. Most of the time, I route the P6 through the Strymon BigSky and Mobius and the T6 through an Eventide H90. I suspect that the default flavor of those pedals leads my choices some. If I swapped that routing, maybe my usage of each synth would change significantly.

[jok3r]

I would like to A/B the P-6 and Trigon myself... there are a lot of people saying, that you don't need the P if you have the T?

I don't have the chops or the street cred of the others on this forum, but I suppose I can add one more data point. I bought a Prophet-6 in 2016 and the Trigon-6 two years ago. I love them both and can't imagine ever getting rid of either of them; I don't feel that they overlap very much at all.

When the Prophet-5/10 was reissued, I assumed I would eventually get one. Each point in time, however, when I thought it was appropriate to evaluate the P5 purchase, I listened to demos and samples and when I heard something that made me think "Must have in my own greedy hands for this sound", I went to the P6 and made a patch that (to me) was equivalently good and very similar (as much as one can tell when comparing to what is heard on Internet playback).

Two years ago when I was again thinking "hmmm ... now it is truly time for a P5", I ended up getting the Trigon instead and haven't regretted it at all. Compared to the P6, it feels more versatile and can find its way into a track more easily than the P6; this is a very subjective thing of course and probably mostly just reflects on my patch programming skills needing improvement. The T6 and P6 seem quite different and cover different ground for me. I'm sure it is possible to make many similar sounding patches on them, but their innate character leads me in different directions.

For me, some of the aspects that stand out on each of them:
 - Prophet-6: Dreamy beautiful smooth pads, atmospheric leads (whatever that means), sweet arpeggio sequences
 - Trigon-6: Rich evolving pads, bass lines, gritty leads, great at unison

Another thing that plays a part in this for me is studio configuration. Most of the time, I route the P6 through the Strymon BigSky and Mobius and the T6 through an Eventide H90. I suspect that the default flavor of those pedals leads my choices some. If I swapped that routing, maybe my usage of each synth would change significantly.

Thanks for the input. All opinions of everyone who owns both synth is very welcome. Especially your more concrete description at the end of your post is helping. Most people just say "it's a different character", but nobody really puts down in words how these different characters manifest.

As I said before, I use the Strymon pedals myself. They sound absolutely astonishing. I read somewhere that "you can fart through them and it will sound heavenly"... well... I would sign that. Even if the modulation effects and delays on the T-6 sound very good for my taste... at least the BigSky elevates this synth to another level. I had so much fun activating the glorious cloud reverb here and there while I was playing through all the presets (which I've finished in the meantime).

Also, I found some organ-like patches where I had much fun using the Leslie effect of the Mobius.

I found my first wish for a possible future update: I would be very nice if the longest wave cycle of a clock synced LFO could be doubled in time. Longest cycle is 32 steps, where one step is relating to a quarter not. The clock division setting doesn't seem to impact that. So 32 steps are 8 bars. It would be cool to get 16 bars. I use the LFO this way for build ups that for example open up the filter over 16 bars, while playing with two hands. This sounds a lot more smoother than trying to do that with a foot pedal evenly over this long time, while playing... you will end up doing nothing an kick this thing up during the last two bars. 8 bars are still a lot, depending on tempo, but 16 bars would be nice. But that's nothing crucial... dividing the clock by 2 can solve this.

So now my own sound design will start. Let's see what insights I will get when I am really working with it.

[Manbird]

Like so many, I bought the P6 as soon as it came out with the hope that it would basically be a Prophet 5+1. Really, the P6, to my ears, lives in a more modern-sounding world. It can do many classic analog sounds, but my wife's complaint when she messed with one at Just Music, was that it was "too clean!" I love it for 80s-style synth bass and for leads. It's my go to synth for synth solos. The P6 can touch on almost digital-sounding tones. It is a very versatile synth, and it's the one that sits in front of me every day, getting more use than anything in my collection. But, it ain't a Prophet 5!

The reissue of the Prophet 5 was a dream come true, right? My wife has a rev3 P5, but if you look at it too long, another j-wire breaks. The Prophet 5 is my fav synth ever. Mono? No effects? Yeah, what's the issue? It sounds so complete. A single note with a single osc on the P5 is as gorgeous as heaven. The 5 can be mysterious or matter of fact. It can sound present or distant. It's got such a pleasing sound, to put it mildly, and enhances any track I use it on. If I was starting over and could only pick one synth, the Prophet 5 would be it, no question. It doesn't do "everything," but who needs that? I'm not bothered that my acoustic piano can't double as a Vox Continental. The Prophet 5 always satisfies, simple as that.

The Trigon, even having had one for maybe a year by now, is still a mystery synth. I have it in my basement studio, one of only two synths down here. The Trigon does "beautiful" quite well. And it can also head for the industrial hills when the feedback and distortion are turned on. I bought mine thinking I'd be selling my P6 to cover the cost. Turns out there was no way that was gonna happen. The Trigon gave me a fresh appreciation for the P6 and the P6 makes me dig the Trigon more and more. I do't use the Trigon for precise sounds. Not that it can't do precise, but I love it more for big washes of sonic matter. The ladder filter and the three oscs bring out the words "creamy" and "dreamy" in my synth-loving heart.

I made a record called Musik For Entities 2 which, on two of three tracks, featured the P6 and Trigon together. I'd create complimentary sequences on each synth and record the synths simultaneously, but starting them manually. This would mean that the slight timing difference would cause the sequences to drift apart so that the patterns created between the two would never repeat, but were ever-evolving. The Trigon and P6 are the only synths I used for this album and they truly worked together like weird twins born of two different mothers.

[jok3r]

Ant, just listened to your mentioned Album on Bandcamp.

Especially the first sequence do I really like. The title says everything. It's hypnotic. I can listen to this the whole day... great tune.

[Manbird]

Ant, just listened to your mentioned Album on Bandcamp.

Especially the first sequence do I really like. The title says everything. It's hypnotic. I can listen to this the whole day... great tune.

Great! I think the first one is the all-Trigon track... it's what made me certain of the Trigon's true, deep glory.

[jok3r]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

[Manbird]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

That's a curious question. I think the Trigon can get dirtier in more ways than the P6, with it's feedback options as well as the distortion circuit and various ways to drive the oscs and filter. The Trigon is maybe "mightier" than the Prophet 6, but I'd say sounds - or feels, maybe - softer. The Prophet 6 can conjure such very beautiful sounds, and it can do ugly. That ugly can contain harshness if desired. I don't find myself landing in that same zone witht he Trigon...

I say all this away from my studio and synths. Maybe I can dig back into the question once I've got the Trigon and P6 at hand...

[LoboLives]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

This is likely due to the third oscillator generating increased frequency thus sounding "harder". It comes down to programming I think but I think it just depends on the goal of the synth in the mix.

[LPF83]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

This is likely due to the third oscillator generating increased frequency thus sounding "harder". It comes down to programming I think but I think it just depends on the goal of the synth in the mix.

General rule of thumb with three oscillator synths is to think of 100% mix of one oscillator as the baseline "no clip" zone, so oscillator 1+2 can clip if the total gain is more than 50% each, or 70/30, etc.   With a third oscillator, to avoid clipping the general rule is 33/33/33 percent or whatever balance that doesn't exceed 100%.

Where it gets a bit subjective and complicated is that sometimes overdriving the gain sounds good, so there's no rule that says exceeding 100% should never be done.  And there's a lot of other factors like how the waveforms impact the harmonics (i.e. a thinned out pulse wave on OSC2 might play better with higher levels).  Then take into consideration the mix values are hotter on some synths than others, and some synths just have a more pleasing distortion than others.

But it is easy to overlook the effects of the additional gain that occurs for each additional oscillator added.

[jok3r]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

This is likely due to the third oscillator generating increased frequency thus sounding "harder". It comes down to programming I think but I think it just depends on the goal of the synth in the mix.

Well, it's not that I don't get soft sounds out of it. It can do that perfectly well... but I just have the feeling that the natural sweetspot of the synth are the harders ones...

As for the third oscillator: besides a single mono patch last week, I exclusively used it as an LFO so far... that's the whole point of this third osc for me and the main reason, why I consider the Trigon the mightier synth possibility-wise. So this can not be the reason... at least in my sound design so far.

I always have the feeling that this beast wants to get its reins tightened a bit more that the P-6 if one's looking for soft pads, etc. .

[jok3r]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

This is likely due to the third oscillator generating increased frequency thus sounding "harder". It comes down to programming I think but I think it just depends on the goal of the synth in the mix.

General rule of thumb with three oscillator synths is to think of 100% mix of one oscillator as the baseline "no clip" zone, so oscillator 1+2 can clip if the total gain is more than 50% each, or 70/30, etc.   With a third oscillator, to avoid clipping the general rule is 33/33/33 percent or whatever balance that doesn't exceed 100%.

Where it gets a bit subjective and complicated is that sometimes overdriving the gain sounds good, so there's no rule that says exceeding 100% should never be done.  And there's a lot of other factors like how the waveforms impact the harmonics (i.e. a thinned out pulse wave on OSC2 might play better with higher levels).  Then take into consideration the mix values are hotter on some synths than others, and some synths just have a more pleasing distortion than others.

But it is easy to overlook the effects of the additional gain that occurs for each additional oscillator added.

Turning back osc levels is always my first step, after loading the initial patch... that's not my problem. In fact there is no problem. It's just a feeling that the Trigon wants to scream and shout all the time... if I let it...

[LPF83]

Would you say the Trigon-6 is sounding "harder" than the Prophet-6?

After my first two weeks with it, it sometimes seems to produce a very hard sound, that I often wished it was a little bit softer. From my memory, I can't remember if I ever had this feeling when I had a P-6 under my fingers. But perhaps that's just because I never had a P-6 for longer than a few hours...

This is likely due to the third oscillator generating increased frequency thus sounding "harder". It comes down to programming I think but I think it just depends on the goal of the synth in the mix.

General rule of thumb with three oscillator synths is to think of 100% mix of one oscillator as the baseline "no clip" zone, so oscillator 1+2 can clip if the total gain is more than 50% each, or 70/30, etc.   With a third oscillator, to avoid clipping the general rule is 33/33/33 percent or whatever balance that doesn't exceed 100%.

Where it gets a bit subjective and complicated is that sometimes overdriving the gain sounds good, so there's no rule that says exceeding 100% should never be done.  And there's a lot of other factors like how the waveforms impact the harmonics (i.e. a thinned out pulse wave on OSC2 might play better with higher levels).  Then take into consideration the mix values are hotter on some synths than others, and some synths just have a more pleasing distortion than others.

But it is easy to overlook the effects of the additional gain that occurs for each additional oscillator added.

Turning back osc levels is always my first step, after loading the initial patch... that's not my problem. In fact there is no problem. It's just a feeling that the Trigon wants to scream and shout all the time... if I let it...

I heard that characteristic in most of the demos I heard.  I think Dave was aiming at a "sort of Moog like" synth, but its like he traded a bit of smoothness for a bit of bite maybe?   On the other hand, sometimes "biting" sounds really blend well with FX like chorus and reverb.