The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2016, 02:47:53 PM »
I don't have any further information other than what I've already said. If you read my original post, I said we'd be revisiting the OS soon, in the coming months. I can say it will happen this year and I am happy to update you when I have new information.

To call an overhaul on the sequencer is practically the entire OS is completely untrue. The sequencer is one of the larger components of the OS, but it is by no means the majority of it. Plenty of features and fixes can be placed on top of the existing sequencer. I think you're misinterpreting "a complete overhaul" as "we made a mistake", which is not the case. What we mean is we're going to be adding some good additional functionality and fixing bugs surrounding sequencer operation.

Because we haven't reviewed our list yet, I can't speak to any specifics regarding potential future operation of the synth. I'd estimate we'll be reviewing the list within a month, if that changes I'll let you know.
SEQUENTIAL

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2016, 04:17:23 PM »
I don't have any further information other than what I've already said. If you read my original post, I said we'd be revisiting the OS soon, in the coming months. I can say it will happen this year and I am happy to update you when I have new information.

To call an overhaul on the sequencer is practically the entire OS is completely untrue. The sequencer is one of the larger components of the OS, but it is by no means the majority of it. Plenty of features and fixes can be placed on top of the existing sequencer. I think you're misinterpreting "a complete overhaul" as "we made a mistake", which is not the case. What we mean is we're going to be adding some good additional functionality and fixing bugs surrounding sequencer operation.

Because we haven't reviewed our list yet, I can't speak to any specifics regarding potential future operation of the synth. I'd estimate we'll be reviewing the list within a month, if that changes I'll let you know.

Thanks for the updates man! Linear FM and we will all love you personally forever :P

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2016, 03:12:15 PM »
I don't have any further information other than what I've already said. If you read my original post, I said we'd be revisiting the OS soon, in the coming months. I can say it will happen this year and I am happy to update you when I have new information.

To call an overhaul on the sequencer is practically the entire OS is completely untrue. The sequencer is one of the larger components of the OS, but it is by no means the majority of it. Plenty of features and fixes can be placed on top of the existing sequencer. I think you're misinterpreting "a complete overhaul" as "we made a mistake", which is not the case. What we mean is we're going to be adding some good additional functionality and fixing bugs surrounding sequencer operation.

Because we haven't reviewed our list yet, I can't speak to any specifics regarding potential future operation of the synth. I'd estimate we'll be reviewing the list within a month, if that changes I'll let you know.

Thanks a lot for the explanation.

This is understandable, as in software programming there is always some unexpected things happen, that sometimes end up requiring extra work, extra time, and thus schedule delay etc. There is no guarantee but only estimation of the time span in this world. Although I long for the linear FM, I know that we users have to be patient about this, and be aware that in the end it might never realize due to the limit of DSP processing capacity. We don't know yet. We'll just play the current version and wait for the outcome from DSI. At least it's good to know that the current R&D schedule is set to have the Pro2 to be updated again within this year.
Hope to hear the good news soon.
DSI: PRO2, evolver keyboard, ensoniq: VFX-SD, Roland: V-Synth, JD-XA, TB-3, Clavia: nord wave, Kurzweil: PC361, Arturia: microBrute, KORG 800DV, monotribe, monotron, monotron DUO, kaossilator 2, MakeNoise 0-Coast, lots of iOS/Mac soft-instruments
Roland A-50, KMI QuNexus
Logic Pro, KORG SQ-1

Pepe

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2016, 03:44:51 PM »
when the sequencer is a larger part of the OS, and the OS is highly inter-dependent with the sequencer as the case here, to me that is practically the whole OS, i dont care specifics . as far as mistakes , im sure it wasn't intentional more likely inexperience. developers dont simply decide one morning afternoon to "overhaul" a larger part of an OS which takes a considerable amount of time and poses new difficulties to code fragility "unless it hampers progress ", you can call it adding good additional functions and bug fix's or whatever, the cats out of the bag. Frankly i dont care and i believe most dont, sh#t happens, what i do care about is that users like myself are not pulled by their nose's endlessly and used as cash cows to front your new endeavors while being given snooty attitudes as "well get to it when we get to it, maybe a month, maybe 3, maybe a year or just buzz off". August last year this news came to being, what is today ? and what has been done ? one puny update that didn't change much if anything and was sneaked into production units first ?. Pro 2 requires accountability with prompt attention, now. I know my money doesnt own your company to be barking orders but dont forget your customers that forked $2k of their hard earned money, some on loans or credit , came forward first and "trusted" you with it and your abilities, there were no missing pieces in our dollar bills. get my drift ?

@nemosynth, if you went through what i went through with the Tempest which is 5yrs on still incomplete , then swallowing my pride, staying optimistic and giving DSI another 2K hoping for the best and after 1.5 yrs witnessing a similar debacle unfold , your patience starts to wear thin, its not only anger at myself anymore.

Pepe

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2016, 04:34:32 PM »
there was a time i was patient with companies. But as some  can probably attest with even Robot Heart referring us to take a look at the industry and how it handles things, one thing is very clear. most customers became so complacent (including myself) like "oh , thanks for your update, nicely written, yeah, give them space and room, be polite (my favorite) blah, blah, blah", that companies have taken advantage of this by thinking, fools, theres little need to finish a product or beta test it properly before selling, 60-70% is good enough, it turns on, makes a drop sound great, enough!  and why not.. when you light up peoples bulbs with possibilities especially dreamer types like musicians, make them hand over money, then, simply  get them unwillingly recruited as beta-monkeys, you've scored big. thats reality and not only DSI but the industry as a whole right ? Robot Heart, nothing personal brotha. so think twice where and how your money is spent and how polite you should be sometimes when confronted with this behavior . i mean , they think most of us still rely only on factory presets, lol

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2016, 05:35:36 PM »
No offense taken over here, I've been on the consumer side plenty of times so I can certainly relate. I feel as if there's been a shift in expectations with the advent of social media and user forums, too. Because people can publicly converse directly with manufacturers there's an expectation that things should move forward more quickly, according to a timeline based purely on opinion.

Say what you will and think what you want, and feel free to ignore the explanations and timelines I've set forth. One thing I will not do though, is repeatedly give the same information when people ask the same question over and over about when things are going to happen, because I've covered that twice now.

Please refer to my two previous posts, and refer others to those posts as well if anyone needs to know when they can expect an update. Rest assured, I will keep my word and let you guys know when we go over the list because at that point I will have new information.
SEQUENTIAL

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2016, 06:00:48 PM »
As much as I can understand your frustration, Pepe, I don't think that this kind of wording will lead anywhere. I've read many threads like this, especially on the old forum and with regard to the Tempest. While it's absolutely legitimate to be upset about a couple of outstanding bug fixes - Robot Heart even acknowledged this from a user's perspective -, to simply intensify the tone of voice while repeating the already addressed issues is not very productive.

You are still free to continue to use your Pro 2 as is and as you bought it, i.e. without the requested features that no one could have ever sold to you because they're simply not part of the instrument (yet) and were never advertised in advance. If you are of the opinion, though, that you simply can't work with the Pro 2 in its current shape and form, then you can either try to be patient until an update will be released eventually or you can also sell your Pro 2 in order to fund something you're initially satisfied with.

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2016, 10:49:44 PM »
Maybe we need some background over Pepe's overuse of the work "Polite" in his last two posts.

After Robot Hearts lengthy post Pepe just requited is original post without adding anything new:

Tempest # 2  :'(

overhaul sequencer ? which means a total screw up initially, which means development rate = years

Adios DSI

I removed this post and sent him a PM asking him not to just requote his posts without adding anything extra. A also said that he was welcome to make another post and just asked him to keep it civil.

He sent me a PM asking what I meant by "Civil" and I thought a good translation might be "Polite", maybe I got this translation wrong!

Now it looks like he has taken offence at this so maybe I was overstepping the mark. I was just hoping to stop this thread descending into a scrap fest.

blewis

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Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2016, 02:17:40 AM »
Trying to understand where we are...

The Pro2 passed stages 1 and 2 pretty soon after its release as there were some quick releases when I first got mine.

The first significant update, 1.1.15, took nearly 9 months and stayed in beta for a long time before it quietly rolled out as a production release.  From what you've mentioned, the synth being not yet 2 years old, we're in stage 3?

Stage 4 is mentioned as being near the 3 year maturity level. You mentioned the Prophet-12 having recently entered this phase. The Prophet 12 got some MAJOR feature releases as it entered Stage 4. That's encouraging! I think we understand that's not a guarantee for future performance. :-)

What I think I'm having trouble understanding is it's been over 6 months since 1.1.15 was released and it took 9 months to get there.  Yikes... I've lost track... it's been nearly 9 months since the beta release! (July 23 2015)

So we're 18 months in with one significant update, and the bug list is going to start getting reviewed in the coming months?

Just seems we're somewhere in the middle of Stage 3 with a window of nearly 18 months left until "final" updates for Stage 4.

I'm not trying to be an ass, and I hope I'm not making you regret spelling out the stages. I'm not trying to use them against you to be difficult.

I'm just trying to understand the timeline between "in the coming months" and 12-18 months from now when the synth reaches Stage 4.

Could be an even longer wait and the wait from 1.1.15 has been pretty darn long already.

And yes,  I am suffering from "my pet peeve feature, that I waited 9 months to get fixed in 1.1.15 still doesn't work the way I expect 9 months after 1.1.15" -> I've given up on it working. That's okay and I only bring it up irregularly now. I'm growing. :-)

Maybe most of this is moot/rhetorical because I assume your answer would be "I've already said I'll let you know when the bug review happens". So I apologize if I'm asking you to repeat yourself.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 02:21:43 AM by blewis »

Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2016, 04:50:27 AM »
@nemosynth, if you went through what i went through with the Tempest which is 5yrs on still incomplete , then swallowing my pride, staying optimistic and giving DSI another 2K hoping for the best and after 1.5 yrs witnessing a similar debacle unfold , your patience starts to wear thin, its not only anger at myself anymore.

Ok, thanks so much for letting me know, it's good to know people's background  :)

Now from my side, if you are using such kind of words to DSI and me, then why are you Pepe still sticking with your DSI products, why don't you sell them for your own better investments? May be it's not the price that you paid anymore. May be you just want to keep your anger like a precious stone you found. Nothing productive.

I said comments from DSI are "understandable", didn't say "acceptable", hence I decided to wait a bit more. Once I waited so many years to have ensoniq fix the bugs on my VFX/SD all the way to version II.

Now it's Pro2's turn.
We'll see  :)
DSI: PRO2, evolver keyboard, ensoniq: VFX-SD, Roland: V-Synth, JD-XA, TB-3, Clavia: nord wave, Kurzweil: PC361, Arturia: microBrute, KORG 800DV, monotribe, monotron, monotron DUO, kaossilator 2, MakeNoise 0-Coast, lots of iOS/Mac soft-instruments
Roland A-50, KMI QuNexus
Logic Pro, KORG SQ-1

dslsynth

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Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2016, 06:16:20 AM »
I feel as if there's been a shift in expectations with the advent of social media and user forums, too.

True. So one could say that the customers should adapt to the fact that companies still operates at the same speed no matter the social media connectivity. Good point!

However, I really hope companies like DSI gets to the point where they realize that perhaps they have to adapt their policies too. Their customers do indeed communicate and having a negative reputation on longer term software quality can actually damage the business. And indeed product quality concerns can sometimes be heard even from the opposite side of the desk.

At which point we end up at my previous postings in this thread so no point in reiterating them. Remember, I am a huge DSI fan! Just please consider reconsidering and adapting your policies while you still have plenty of time to do it so the best possible solutions can be found. Especially now that you are in "mostly high end" mode where people rightfully can have higher expectations on said unmentionable product quality parameter.

Also, I am sure there will always be customers complaining about something not working for them. However there is always the tradeoff between that fact and considering how much one gives them to rightfully complain about.

Having customers are indeed a type of "extreme sports".

Take care! ;)
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Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2016, 10:26:25 AM »
I don't think you overstepped the mark, BobTheDog.  We have a standard on this forum, and it's to not fall to the low standard of the other forum.  If the terms "civil" and "polite" are not understood by some one, then moderators have a reasonable responsibility to omit whatever is overly uncivil and impolite. 

I briefly read Pepe's posts, and I had no problem with his basic complaints.  But if they begin to sound like redundant rants with occasional expletives, then they need to be changed without altering their basic content - preferably by the poster himself, lastly by a moderator.  Cleaned up a bit, they're only going to have more impact.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:37:24 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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dslsynth

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Re: Pro 2 Main OS 1.1.15 (beta)
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2016, 11:04:21 AM »
Cleaned up a bit, they're only going to have more impact.

Exactly! Tone down the language and make the message clear yet polite is the way to go.

Not that a clear message working well all the time though.
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cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature