Bug: Pressing keys triggers midi NOTE OFF , releasing keys triggers NOTE ON

[stonecold]

 I recently purchased a TEO 5. I'm having the issue described in the subject line. Midi works fine for about 5-10 minutes, but then all of a sudden, pressing keys triggers note off , and releasing keys triggers note on. I can get around this by turning off the synth and turning it back on. However, it happens again within 5-10 minutes. Other controllers work fine, and this issue persists in all the software I've tried, so I ruled this out as app specific or a computer-wide issue.

I emailed sequential and awaiting a response, but want to know if the community has any workarounds / solves for this. I saw a similar thread in the Take 5 forum with no apparent solution

[Autosynther]

From your description I conclude you play TEO keyboard and echo/monitor that through a sequencer back to TEO?
- if so, did you turn off Midi LocalOn in TEO?

Small delays and double triggering can cause similar effects as you describe.

But I've had the same issue when I had the Polybrute a couple of years ago
- turning off localOn and a looped din midi cable in/out was enough
- a couple of secs of two hand playing you got hung notes and it was missing some midi in
- so a bug not fixing concurrent midi out and in at the same time as playing keyboard

Solution/workaround for this
- have localOn to on as default is so you only monitor audio through sequencer
- no echo/monitoring on midi track to record midi, just arm for record
- this way playing is not depending on echoed midi back and forth
- worked fine

On the other foot, I do not trust usb midi to be as good a proper din midi interface to computer.
- usb connection is not the main product of a synthesizer
- are you using usb midi?

Just a couple of ideas....

[stonecold]

From your description I conclude you play TEO keyboard and echo/monitor that through a sequencer back to TEO?
- if so, did you turn off Midi LocalOn in TEO?

Small delays and double triggering can cause similar effects as you describe.

But I've had the same issue when I had the Polybrute a couple of years ago
- turning off localOn and a looped din midi cable in/out was enough
- a couple of secs of two hand playing you got hung notes and it was missing some midi in
- so a bug not fixing concurrent midi out and in at the same time as playing keyboard

Solution/workaround for this
- have localOn to on as default is so you only monitor audio through sequencer
- no echo/monitoring on midi track to record midi, just arm for record
- this way playing is not depending on echoed midi back and forth
- worked fine

On the other foot, I do not trust usb midi to be as good a proper din midi interface to computer.
- usb connection is not the main product of a synthesizer
- are you using usb midi?

Just a couple of ideas....

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I am using usb midi. If I’m understanding correctly, no, i wasn’t using it in that way. I was simply using it to control 3rd party VSTs with local control off.

[Autosynther]

Thinking length of usb cable or switch to another cable.

Not sure if audio from TEO is connected to interface either way while playing VSTs?
- usb always increase risk of ground loops since not isolated like din midi
- that in itself can create issues, possibly, havin ground both through usb and audio

Could be such a situation and try disconnect audio part maybe?
- just for troubleshooting purposes

If having normal din midi port to computer I would try and use that instead either way if audio disconnect helps or not.

If you have a midi monitor tool, some daws like StudioOne has built in, others have plugins to do that like Cakewalk/Sonar, I would look at if lost events or something.
- sounds strange that TEO would suddenly shift state of keys, but possible I guess

Latest firmware seems to be v1.0.0 still for download, so no update unless they are shipped with v0.x something....

[stonecold]

Thinking length of usb cable or switch to another cable.

Not sure if audio from TEO is connected to interface either way while playing VSTs?
- usb always increase risk of ground loops since not isolated like din midi
- that in itself can create issues, possibly, havin ground both through usb and audio

Could be such a situation and try disconnect audio part maybe?
- just for troubleshooting purposes

If having normal din midi port to computer I would try and use that instead either way if audio disconnect helps or not.

If you have a midi monitor tool, some daws like StudioOne has built in, others have plugins to do that like Cakewalk/Sonar, I would look at if lost events or something.
- sounds strange that TEO would suddenly shift state of keys, but possible I guess

Latest firmware seems to be v1.0.0 still for download, so no update unless they are shipped with v0.x something....

Thanks. It seems to be the case still with another usb cable. I would try those other workarounds but even if they were to solve the issue, i can’t really accept not being able to use usb midi or usb and audio connected simultaneously on a $1500 synth. Never had this issue with others. I packed it up for a return and hopefully I’ll purchase again if it’s resolved in a firmware update. I do think that the sound and UI of this synth are special , regardless

[mathisa2]

Thinking length of usb cable or switch to another cable.

Not sure if audio from TEO is connected to interface either way while playing VSTs?
- usb always increase risk of ground loops since not isolated like din midi
- that in itself can create issues, possibly, havin ground both through usb and audio

Could be such a situation and try disconnect audio part maybe?
- just for troubleshooting purposes

If having normal din midi port to computer I would try and use that instead either way if audio disconnect helps or not.

If you have a midi monitor tool, some daws like StudioOne has built in, others have plugins to do that like Cakewalk/Sonar, I would look at if lost events or something.
- sounds strange that TEO would suddenly shift state of keys, but possible I guess

Latest firmware seems to be v1.0.0 still for download, so no update unless they are shipped with v0.x something....

how do you typically determine whether to prioritize USB or traditional DIN MIDI connections in your setup, especially when using various VSTs and audio interfaces?

hero clicker

[camillomuc]

I also had that issue several times using the TEO5 in combination with MPC one. Maybe it has something to do with an unwanted midi thru or something like that. I haven´t found out yet.

[stargazingkiwi]

I also see this on my TEO5, and its very disappointing. I tried using a different usb cable, not using a hub or plugged straight in.

Interestingly I didn't have this issue when I was using it with my older windows laptop - I used the synth there for a couple weeks without a single occurrence. But as soon as I upgraded to a macbook pro (m4) I did start seeing this issue quite often, every 15 minutes or so.

Local on/off it didnt matter. Midi debugging tool in FLStudio does indeed show it's the synth sending the wrong commands. I dont really want to return this, but its going to be very annoying to have to have a separate controller. Is there a better way than direct USB to get midi control from this device into my VSTs?

[stargazingkiwi]

I did some more testing today. Changing all the GLOBAL midi settings to other values etc, still occurs. Tested without using my DAW (FLStudio) and just using Midi monitor, and I could get the problem to still occur. Doesnt seem to be related to aftertouch, it just seems to "buffer overrun" after a certain number of notes.

Id be more ok with it if there was a way to reset it other than unplug/plug the usb back in.

Im going to plug it more into my old windows laptop to see if I can get it there too. Maybe its related to being plugged into a usbc port (new) instead of a usba (my old laptop)

[Frocktar]

I recently purchased a TEO 5. I'm having the issue described in the subject line. Midi works fine for about 5-10 minutes, but then all of a sudden, pressing keys triggers note off , and releasing keys triggers note on. I can get around this by turning off the synth and turning it back on. However, it happens again within 5-10 minutes. Other controllers work fine, and this issue persists in all the software I've tried, so I ruled this out as app specific or a computer-wide issue.

I emailed sequential and awaiting a response, but want to know if the community has any workarounds / solves for this. I saw a similar thread in the Take 5 forum with no apparent solution

Yes I am experiencing this too.  Turning off and on again it works for a while.  Extremely annoying.

[kpatz]

EDIT: nevermind.  I thought I reproduced an issue, but I think my MIDI-OX monitor window wasn't scrolled all the way down.  My TEO-5 and Take 5 is still sending correct midi even after heavy playing and leaving it on a while (with no midi loops, only midi out going into MIDI-OX's midi monitor).

[stargazingkiwi]

OK I think I've solved it on my machine.

BY chance are the rest of you using a Mac device with Sequoia+ and M2 chips or newer? I've read lots of forum posts recently and it seems sequential synth owners arent the only ones having trouble. It seems to be happening to people using all sorts of controllers.

The cause - Apple's USB midi drivers.

My TEO5 works flawlessly over usb with my windows laptop. It just gets these midi sticks only on my new m4 pro. (Which ironically I mainly got for music production)

I got around this problem by not using usb. I purchased a bluetooth WIDI midi connector, and put it on the midi din out/in ports and it works flawlessly on OSX (so far at least, tested it for 2 days without a sticking note). Its a relatively inexpensive device. https://www.cme-pro.com/product/widi-master/

I think the forums we need to continue complaining on are Apple's...

[gus]

OK I think I've solved it on my machine.

BY chance are the rest of you using a Mac device with Sequoia+ and M2 chips or newer? I've read lots of forum posts recently and it seems sequential synth owners arent the only ones having trouble. It seems to be happening to people using all sorts of controllers.

The cause - Apple's USB midi drivers.

My TEO5 works flawlessly over usb with my windows laptop. It just gets these midi sticks only on my new m4 pro. (Which ironically I mainly got for music production)

I got around this problem by not using usb. I purchased a bluetooth WIDI midi connector, and put it on the midi din out/in ports and it works flawlessly on OSX (so far at least, tested it for 2 days without a sticking note). Its a relatively inexpensive device. https://www.cme-pro.com/product/widi-master/

I think the forums we need to continue complaining on are Apple's...

I will log these details for our software team to review, thanks for trying on different systems. If you happen to have any links that point to these problems occurring on different pieces of hardware, please let me know.

If anyone experiences this issue, it is incredibly helpful to send the details over to support@oberheim.com - we haven't been able to reliably reproduce this problem, so any steps/details to reproduce it will greatly help.

[joachip]

This happens to me as well once in a while. Restarting the TEO-5 is the only resolution I know atm.
I'm using USB midi in Windows 10, TEO5 firmware 1.1.0.4. This happens with Samplitude, Bitwig, Reaper and Studio One.

[joachip]

This still happens once in a while with firmware 1.2.0.15, at least when connected using USB.
Are there any plans for a fix?

[fourm4]

I've also had this issue with the Fourm connected to a MacBook Pro M2 (haven't/can't try on PC). I was trying to use the Fourm as a controller to a software synth running standalone (a MacOS app). I was also running a midi monitoring app in the background in order to cross check the values. The note off MIDI was sent when key was down, and vice versa.

[Gonzodamus]

Just want to pop in to say that I'm also experiencing this issue. Also on a Mac, haven't tried on PC.

One thing I’ve found is that when the bug is active, applying aftertouch and then lifting the key does give me a “note off”, but then the TEO keeps sending “Channel Pressure 0” messages afterwards. Emailed Oberheim support with my midi logs to see if that helps. Unfortunately I only have logs of after the bug, so I don't have the inciting incident. I'll make sure I have logs going tomorrow though and see if I can get it recorded.