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ENV release modulation bug ?

ENV release modulation bug ?
« on: October 25, 2016, 02:50:07 AM »
After testing this with a sequencer track on the AMP ENV release, it looks like the bigger the modulation value, the shorter the release...

Also happens when you record it on the fly, the envelope release is longer when you turn the knob counter-clockwise and shorter clockwise (but modulation value higher)

Can anyone confirm this ? Looks like a bug to me...

(Didn't test this with other envelopes or modulations sources though)

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 03:07:35 AM »
nobody ?

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 11:20:21 PM »
Are you saying that if you turn the Amp release knob to the right you amp release shortens?

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 12:02:48 PM »
Thanks for the reply and yes, it's what you say when recorded on a sequencer track.

To be more precise, I don't hear  the release changing much when recording on the fly (much less than normal operation without recording), but when I playback the seq track, the modulation is clearly inverted : small modulation value = longer release, high modulation value = shorter release...

I hope I make myself clear (english is not my first language)

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 10:24:00 PM »
Ah Ok, when recorded on the sequencer.

Some of the modulation slots on the Pro 2 are reversed for some strange reason, maybe the amp release is one of them, I can't quite remember.

I will have a look later today....

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 11:25:16 PM »
Just checked here.

The Amp release is one of the modulation parameters that is reversed, you can check this out in the modulation matrix by using DC as the source and changing the depth to see the effect on the amp release.

This is a bug, DSI know about it I guess but it might be worth you emailing them, the more people that log it as a bug the more chance there is of it getting fixed.

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2016, 01:21:11 AM »
Thanks for checking, will do that

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2016, 02:59:21 AM »
Wow, I thin a quick test using the method you were talking about (DC offset), and it looks like the modulation amount is reversed for ALL envelope parameters (attack, decay, release) on ALL envelopes (amp, filter 1, filter 2, env4 & env 5) !!

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2016, 04:15:36 AM »
Not good is it!

At least with the mod matrix you can just reverse it using negative values, on the sequencer you don't get that ability.

What you could do is record your sequence changes for the amp release, then change the destination of the sequence to set it off. Then use the mod matrix to connect the sequence track to the amp release and use -127 for the amount to invert it. I guess that should be a workaround.

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 01:05:19 PM »
reply from DSI support (Carson) : "The operation you described is the known and expected operation of the envelopes when they are modulated. Positive amounts of modulation will shorten the envelope stage while negative amounts of modulation will lengthen the envelope stage. In this way, the issue is not a bug and will not be changed in an upcoming update."

I fail to understand the logic behind this. Because that means, when you’re recording an envelope modulation on the fly using a sequencer track, the result is in fact the opposite of the knob movement you just recorded ? (plus the fact that what you hear during recording absolutely does not match the knob setting in normal operation mode)

That makes no sense to me and seems very counter-intuitive compared to the pretty straightforward general workflow of the machine.

(or in other words, it is impossible to hear what you record in real time regarding envelope parameters)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 01:09:23 PM by phisynth »

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 01:47:05 PM »
Sounds like total crap to me!

If you record a knob from the sequencer it should play back what you hear when you record it, not the inverse!

Also just logically what they are saying is rubbish, I'm very surprised by that response!

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Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 03:53:05 PM »
All of our instruments respond this way.  Positive amounts of modulation to the envelope increase the rate of change of the envelope stage while negative amounts decrease the rate of change.

Hope this clears things up!
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Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 10:38:28 PM »
All of our instruments respond this way.  Positive amounts of modulation to the envelope increase the rate of change of the envelope stage while negative amounts decrease the rate of change.

Hope this clears things up!

The behaviour is quite weird when recording to the sequencer though, turning the knob clockwise results in the envelope getting shorter and not longer... opposite of what normally happens when turning the knob

Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 11:19:23 PM »
All of our instruments respond this way.  Positive amounts of modulation to the envelope increase the rate of change of the envelope stage while negative amounts decrease the rate of change.

Hope this clears things up!

So it is the expected behaviour that the P2 sequencer handles recording of the time based envelope controls differently to all the other controls?

Re: ENV parameter modulation bug ?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2016, 11:54:31 PM »
The behaviour is quite weird when recording to the sequencer though, turning the knob clockwise results in the envelope getting shorter and not longer... opposite of what normally happens when turning the knob

Exactly, and sorry, but makes no sense to me at all. I have a hard time seeing this as a feature
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 12:02:15 AM by phisynth »

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Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 11:06:23 AM »
I don't have a Pro 2 myself (unfortunately) but it seems like two things are discussed here: (1) how envelope parameter works in the modulation matrix and (2) how recording an envelope parameter in the sequencer works.

As far as I can understand the problem its related to the way envelope parameters are recorded in a sequence and not how envelope parameters work in the modulation matrix. If that is the case what is needed is for the sequence parameter recording code to remap the values in case of envelope parameters.

If so its a piece of software work for an future version of the Pro 2 OS. Also as its an user interface change its not going to change the behavior of existing sounds but will only improve the user interface of the instrument.
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Re: ENV release modulation bug ?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 09:51:36 AM »
All of our instruments respond this way.  Positive amounts of modulation to the envelope increase the rate of change of the envelope stage while negative amounts decrease the rate of change.

Hope this clears things up!

The behaviour is quite weird when recording to the sequencer though, turning the knob clockwise results in the envelope getting shorter and not longer... opposite of what normally happens when turning the knob

Sorry to bring this back, but DSI, can we expect to see this behaviour corrected ? This makes really impossible to record enveloppe parameter automation using the knobs