Korg Keystage 61

LPF83

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Korg Keystage 61
« on: October 04, 2024, 01:33:50 PM »
If anyone is looking for a MIDI controller with poly aftertouch (and MPE and MIDI 2.0), I'm finding myself quite happy with the Korg Keystage.

I often find aftertouch in general to be one of those things I just end up disabling because I don't like the response, which makes it all the more ironic that I was interested in a Poly AT controller at all, I suppose.  But I'm now a believer.  It is the same keybed in the Hydrasynth keyboards which I don't think I've heard many negatives about.  It seems to just work out of the box and the response feels calibrated right.

Additionally, when I visually monitor the response of the keys in Poly AT mode in plug-ins that support it (Pigments for example), I'm thrilled to see that once downward pressure is enough to engage AT, slight horizontal wiggles of the key do exactly what they should with regard to vibrato.  Some keyboards do this better than others, but I think the Keystage does it flawlessly... to the point that it does not leave me wanting for an Osmose at all.

Loopop's YT review is helpful, so if you're interested in this controller you'll find more/better info there than I could offer.  I will just add that I was pleasantly surprised at how well-integrated it is with Ableton, and I was a bit confused about how Loopop chose to explain Ableton vs. MIDI 2.0 etc, in his review.  So apparently the parameter communication does not use MIDI 2.0 but instead was a coordinated thing between Ableton and Korg.  Which is fine by me as long as it works, and it does, I was just unclear based on the way he demo'd it.  I can't comment on how well it integrates with other DAWs, but I assume similarly in the ones it lists as supported.

As noted in his review, the keys are not the quietest I've ever encountered but the impact noise isn't dramatically different than many other keyboards I've owned, including the Native KK S61.  I find the key feel to pretty much be what I want in a keybed.  Some online are complaining that it has pots instead of encoders but I find that to be a plus, personally.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2024, 01:53:14 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

LPF83

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Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2024, 05:28:10 PM »
I need to discuss the subject of key feel for a moment.

I was talking to a friend about the Keystage (and newer MIDI controllers in general) today and his questions prompted me to add a bit more information to this thread as it relates to the subject of build quality, key feel and key impact noise, etc.  He was asking how the key feel itself compares to the OB-6 or Prophet 6. 

Comparing side by side, most keyboard players will definitely notice a difference between the Keystage and the OB6 or P6... but IMO a substantial factor in the difference in the key feel across synths or controllers has to do with the chassis, not just the keybed.  Instruments like the OB-6, Prophet 6, and even more so my Prophet 10 are made of mostly metal and wood which gives them a more solid / substantial feel, and those materials absorb and respond to impact vibrations differently.  I think that's part of where the premium price tag comes from.

One of the things I like to do on a full size keybed is slide my fingers underneath to see what's going on (I've always found this reveals naughty secrets.. lol).  So with a premium synth like a P6/OB6/P10, extra weight has been added to the key such that the bottom is not completely hollow, and there is not a discernable "lip" under the edge of the key, giving them a more solid feel. 

The NI KK S61 fatar keybed passes this test as well, no discernable front edge lip under the key but the "thunk" during impact is a little noisier because the chassis is plastic instead of metal+wood.

The Keystage keys, when examined with the "underskirt feel" test, are mostly hollow but you can feel an extra structural piece of plastic is under each one, so they are not fully hollow.  Some cheaper keybeds (like Roland System-8, Korg PolySix) are hollow from the edge of the white key up to the depth point where the black keys begin.  This design is different, in that the extra structural piece underneath seems to provide extra rigidity (lack of flex that would otherwise make the keys feel cheap) and weight (what we usually associate with quality feel of keys).

The keys on my Pro-2 are in a wierd place between all of these, they are primarily hollow on the underside but have sort of a "knot" of plastic that seems to have been an attempt to give them substance.  It's a great sounding mono and a playable keyboard, but the build quality on this particular synth definitely comes from the metal+wood construction of the chassis and not the keys themselves.

Overall with the Keystage, I think they've built a decent compromise into the design.  The keys are not the greatest quality, but at the same time they seem to strike the right balance that feels good to play, and also keeps the overall weight of the controller down (because I bought it for my compact setup... I'm quite happy with the lightweight and slim depth).  It is easy to move this controller around or take it with you elsewhere, even at 61 keys.

Above I mentioned the difference in plastic controllers versus metal and wood ones, and to reiterate, it does make a difference in how keys sound to the player during composition (of course not later phases of production).  I'm usually wearing headphones so it's not a big issue for me, I can't hear the difference in sound anyway.  The keydown thump noise of the Keystage is slightly greater than that of something like the OB6/P6 but not enough to get your attention, and not obnoxiously worse than the NI KK S61.  In terms of longevity, I have to assume that if the keys on my PolySix can still be in great shape after all this time since it was made in 1981(*), the Keystage can hold up for long enough as well.

(*)  I haven't had it that long but to my knowledge the keybed has never been replaced.





Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2024, 09:19:40 PM »
For me, there’s a few big missteps with the KeyStage. One was that it didn’t include the ribbon controller of the HydraSynth. Especially with Polyphonic aftertouch and MPE being a big promotion with this controller, the ability to do a smooth glissando or violin like gestures in addition to traditional chords is incredibly versatile.

That brings me up to issue two. I don’t believe it supports splits or layers. So you are only able to control a single instrument at a time.

Also an on-board sequencer would have been most welcomed. Ever since Arturia started implementing them on their controllers, any time they are omitted (even from Arturia themselves), I get heated.

LPF83

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Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2024, 05:07:55 AM »
For me, there’s a few big missteps with the KeyStage. One was that it didn’t include the ribbon controller of the HydraSynth. Especially with Polyphonic aftertouch and MPE being a big promotion with this controller, the ability to do a smooth glissando or violin like gestures in addition to traditional chords is incredibly versatile.

That brings me up to issue two. I don’t believe it supports splits or layers. So you are only able to control a single instrument at a time.

Also an on-board sequencer would have been most welcomed. Ever since Arturia started implementing them on their controllers, any time they are omitted (even from Arturia themselves), I get heated.

I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as a perfect MIDI controller, and as a result that I need more than one to cover individual use cases.  So I have to judge a controller based on how well it addresses the most frequent uses I have in mind for it.  The integration with Ableton, the slim depth, and key feel are as important if not more so than the PolyAT/MPE/MIDI 2.0, and of course the importance of those will vary individually.

My KK S61 supports splitting to two separate instruments, but I actually find myself seldom using it that way.  Many multi-timbral instruments also allow setting up the split with key range on the synth, over same MIDI channel but using separate outs, but it's still not my preferred workflow.

A ribbon would have been a nice edition, but sometimes I think that ribbon functionality is most useful when the synth features are designed with it in mind.  For example UDO is offering their ribbon from the Super Gemini / Super 8 as a standalone accessory, but I believe it will act like a general expression pedal on most synths (i.e.  you'd need to have a Super 6 in order for it to do the same thing it does on a Super 8, which is glide only the key that's being held down while leaving everything else unaffected).  So with that in mind I'm guessing Korg decided to not increase the sales price and also keep the depth as slim as possible.  I've also noticed on my boards that have touch controls (KK S61, Keystep Pro etc) it is sometimes a struggle not to accidentally touch the strip, sending the sound into unwanted territory.  On the KK S61 the placement of it is particularly annoying, to the point I just disabled it.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

LPF83

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Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2024, 02:07:47 PM »
The Roli Airwave looks interesting and might be an interesting addition to the Keystage or any other PolyAT/MPE controller.

https://roli.com/uk/experience/airwave-create?gad_source=1
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2024, 08:15:35 AM »
I'm guessing you already know this but just in case...the DSI/Sequential synths all respond to Poly AT!



Additionally, when I visually monitor the response of the keys in Poly AT mode in plug-ins that support it (Pigments for example), I'm thrilled to see that once downward pressure is enough to engage AT, slight horizontal wiggles of the key do exactly what they should with regard to vibrato.  Some keyboards do this better than others, but I think the Keystage does it flawlessly... to the point that it does not leave me wanting for an Osmose at all.



LPF83

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Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2024, 02:51:49 PM »
I'm guessing you already know this but just in case...the DSI/Sequential synths all respond to Poly AT!

Yep!   I mostly just mentioned Pigments because it gives you a clear visual of what each subtle wiggle of a key is doing.

One thing they got right on the Keystage UI design is that it's also fast/immediate to make changes to the AT sensitivity, which I sometimes find quicker than adjusting modulation amounts on the device that's producing the sound.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Korg Keystage 61
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2024, 08:07:22 PM »
I'm guessing you already know this but just in case...the DSI/Sequential synths all respond to Poly AT!



Additionally, when I visually monitor the response of the keys in Poly AT mode in plug-ins that support it (Pigments for example), I'm thrilled to see that once downward pressure is enough to engage AT, slight horizontal wiggles of the key do exactly what they should with regard to vibrato.  Some keyboards do this better than others, but I think the Keystage does it flawlessly... to the point that it does not leave me wanting for an Osmose at all.



Not true for the PX or Pro 3 I believe.