What Will Follow the Prophet '08, and When?

[eXode]

I don't remember to what extent the new CEM3340 has been discussed, but I wonder if a Prophet 08 mk2 could be slightly cheaper with 3340's vs the current (discrete?) design.

[Fuseball]

I don't remember to what extent the new CEM3340 has been discussed, but I wonder if a Prophet 08 mk2 could be slightly cheaper with 3340's vs the current (discrete?) design.

As a Jupiter 6 owner, I would love to see a mk2 P'08 built from those oscillators, complete with cross-mod possibilities and the stacking of waveforms (as also found in the Prophet 5).

[valtyr]

I have no idea what will follow it, but I think the 08 still fills a niche in the market. It isn't as expensive as the other Prophets or the OB 6 and has double the voices of the Mopho X4.

Moog doesn't have anything in direct competition as they seem uninterested in making a poly synth.  Polychaining Moogs is expensive and consumes a lot more space than purchasing a Prophet 8 or even a Prophet 6.

The Korg Minilogue is only 4 voice, I haven't heard anything indicating a way to increase the number of voices so it would seem to compete only with the Mopho X4 more than the Prophet 08.

Behringer Deep Mind seems like it offers up the most competition against the Prophet 08. That said, the demos I have heard so far haven't swept me off my feet (not bad, but not great either) and it seems quite a bit more dependent on using the screen. Also, the Behringer gear I have owned in the past has nowhere near the build quality of the Prophet or the Mopho so I'd be hesitant to order one without trying it out in person first.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I couldn't agree with you more.  Among the DSI line-up, and even amid all the other new analog synthesizers, the Prophet '08 still seems quite unique and worth keeping in production.  Probably the main issue is, however, whether P'08 sales make it worth DSI's continued production of it.  As usual, it's the bottom line that decides.  I hope the instrument is still selling well, but I have no idea.

[MartinM]

Moinmoin,

there seems to be a kind of "wave cycle" regarding the demand of specific instruments and sounds. This is certainly true for the "Hammond" organ, as for the Fender Rhodes, which were totally outperformed by samplers and DX7-like instruments, but meanwhile had an astonishing comeback. Also the electric guitar, which wasn't really present in much of the 80's hits, heavily returned in the 90's.
The concept of

• classical, voltage controlled, subtractive synthesizer with
• instant approach to all parameters, which also has the possibility to
• "remember" patches and therefore allows live performance,

was new with the Prophet 5.
I never could afford it due to costs and my then "innocent youth", but the concept was renewed and given to me with the P'08. Nevermind the DCOs and digital LFOs, which also have some advantages, especially regarding synchronisation. It is a big luck, that P'08 was released just when I needed it.
Maybe "true all-rounders" like KORG Kronos will dominate the next few years, but I think (I hope, at least) that from time to time a bold synthesizer company will issue an instrument like the P5 or P'08. If this company shares the Prophet heritage, all the better.
As musicians live by their ears and tools, and DSI have to live and survive in their niche market, there will be a good chance...

Martin

[LoboLives]

I think DSI would have to be interested in even adding ISO updates to the 08 as it is. There's room for improvement for sure.

[eXode]

I think DSI would have to be interested in even adding ISO updates to the 08 as it is. There's room for improvement for sure.

Do you mean firmware (OS) updates?

I'd actually like to see an "80's DCO mode" implemented. I.e. the option to have all oscillators on all voices run from the same clock, like the old DCO poly's in the 80's (i.e. Roland JX3P/JX8P, Kawai SX240, Akai AX80, iirc).

I said this before but I'd also like to see some detuning possible between the voices when in poly mode. Similar to how the unison has three detuning settings, I'd like them to be available for the poly mode as well.

[LoboLives]

I think DSI would have to be interested in even adding ISO updates to the 08 as it is. There's room for improvement for sure.

Do you mean firmware (OS) updates?

I'd actually like to see an "80's DCO mode" implemented. I.e. the option to have all oscillators on all voices run from the same clock, like the old DCO poly's in the 80's (i.e. Roland JX3P/JX8P, Kawai SX240, Akai AX80, iirc).

I said this before but I'd also like to see some detuning possible between the voices when in poly mode. Similar to how the unison has three detuning settings, I'd like them to be available for the poly mode as well.

Yes I mean OS sorry. I think the sequencer needs to be improved as well. It shouldn't be gated. It's too convoluted that way. The "Slop" implementation is lacking.

I think there was a big opportunity missed with the OB6...it could have combined the pure analog architecture of the Prophet 6 (with no menu diving) but with the split and layer possibilities of the P08 so that way it would stay closer to the OBXa. Instead we just got the Prophet 6 but with Oberheim guts.

I just think there's been next to no interest from the P08 online. DSI didn't even do a youtube introduction video to it, channels like Perfect Circuit Audio did demos of every other DSI synth except for the Prophet 08 and Mopho. There's been no updates to the OS. So I think Dave probably just wants to move on at this point as the P08 has sort of been left behind.

What I was suggesting before is  one of the following

1.) Do a 4 part analog synth similar to the ARP Quadra. A monophonic bass section, polyphonic section, a string section and lead section. Why just regulate it to two splits? Why not four and create essentially an analog workstation.

2.) Do a digital/analog hybrid similar to the Roland JDXA where you can combine sampled acoustic style sounds with analog synth tones (I'm not sure how this would work with DSI -I know the Prophet 2000 was the only sample based synth that comes to mind-but I think the JDXA is a great idea but needs improvements badly.)

3.) Do a pure FM/VS based synth. Dave's partnered up with Roger Linn, Tom Oberheim so why not partner with John Chowning (DX7) or even Cameron Jones (Synclavier) and do something away from the analog realm (It's not like Dave hasn't done it before with the Prophet VS)

4.) Or just do a dual keyboard Prophet 6 as a tribute to the Prophet 10. More than likely not going to happen...but hey...a guy can dream right?

[Paul Dither]

The Prophet '08 has been released about 9 years ago. There's not going to be another firmware update again. The last feature that has been added was the arpeggiator latch mode and that was roughly 3 years ago.

I'm not going for a defeatist tone here, rather a reality check after which it's totally unrealistic to expect any new features to be added to the Prophet '08. The work on this synth is definitely done. There's nothing that makes it critical in use and there are no more bugs to fix. So you should all take it for what it is.

[eXode]

The Prophet '08 has been released about 9 years ago. There's not going to be another firmware update again. The last feature that has been added was the arpeggiator latch mode and that was roughly 3 years ago.

I'm not going for a defeatist tone here, rather a reality check after which it's totally unrealistic to expect any new features to be added to the Prophet '08. The work on this synth is definitely done. There's nothing that makes it critical in use and there are no more bugs to fix. So you should all take it for what it is.

That might very well be the case, but didn't they actually add osc restart on the Tetra (and possibly the MoPho series as well)? Regardless of the P'08's age it shouldn't be too difficult to add features that the other products based on the same lineage have. The latest Tetra OS beta was released in August and that is officially a discontinued product - The Prophet 08 isn't!

Is the glass half empty - or half full?

[Paul Dither]

I think there was a big opportunity missed with the OB6...it could have combined the pure analog architecture of the Prophet 6 (with no menu diving) but with the split and layer possibilities of the P08 so that way it would stay closer to the OBXa. Instead we just got the Prophet 6 but with Oberheim guts.

Well, unlike the Prophet-6 there is no historical predecessor for the OB-6. Like you described above, DSI ulitized the Prophet-6 architecture for its realization. So in turn it makes no sense to compare it to an OB-Xa, whose filter has nothing to do with the SEM filter anyway. It's a completely different instrument. The only common thing the OB-6 and the OB-Xa share is the use of blue stripes.

I just think there's been next to no interest from the P08 online. DSI didn't even do a youtube introduction video to it, channels like Perfect Circuit Audio did demos of every other DSI synth except for the Prophet 08 and Mopho. There's been no updates to the OS. So I think Dave probably just wants to move on at this point as the P08 has sort of been left behind.

Again, the Prophet '08 is 9 years old already. In a time, where there are almost weekly announcements about new synths, modules, or drum machines, you can't expect it to pop up out of nowhere. It has already been discussed a lot in the past. And there are even occasional threads where it appears in. There was one on GS recently, where someone asked how well it compares to the OB-Xa.

As for the YouTube introduction: DSI didn't do any product videos before the Tetra. And the first fully professional edited announcement came with the introduction of the Tempest. Not only a matter of priorities, but also of resources. Don't forget that until 2006 DSI consisted only of Dave himself, and he didn't hire all the rest in just one go a month later.

And again, one should hope that Dave has moved on from the Prophet '08 a while ago already. It's been out there for so long and the fact that it's still available proves that it's obviously still in demand. Just as a comparison: After the age of 5 years, Apple usually declares a model to be vintage, which means in practical terms that it won't even be considered for a repair anymore.

[Paul Dither]

The Prophet '08 has been released about 9 years ago. There's not going to be another firmware update again. The last feature that has been added was the arpeggiator latch mode and that was roughly 3 years ago.

I'm not going for a defeatist tone here, rather a reality check after which it's totally unrealistic to expect any new features to be added to the Prophet '08. The work on this synth is definitely done. There's nothing that makes it critical in use and there are no more bugs to fix. So you should all take it for what it is.

That might very well be the case, but didn't they actually add osc restart on the Tetra (and possibly the MoPho series as well)? Regardless of the P'08's age it shouldn't be too difficult to add features that the other products based on the same lineage have. The latest Tetra OS beta was released in August and that is officially a discontinued product - The Prophet 08 isn't!

Is the glass half empty - or half full?

I can't speak for the Mopho/Tetra, as I never owned one of those, so I'm not checking the according updates.

Coding-wise it would of course be possible to add the same stuff to the Prophet '08, but I wouldn't hold my breath. And its age does play a role, since you'll rarely find a company that supports their products this long if there's nothing wrong about its fundamental means of operation. It's also a matter of resources: As far as I know the older DSI instruments utilized a different type of coding, which also entails that you'd like to be done with that at some point as a manufacturer.

Right now, the priorities are finishing a major update for the Pro 2 and developing a completely new instrument, which is likely going to be presented at the upcoming Winter NAMM. Then, it's also still in the open whether DSI will continue to carry the Prophet '08 in their catalogue. But even if they continue to manufacture it and would consider applying the recent Tetra/Mopho update to it, I wouldn't be too surprised if that would only take place in next year's late summer, i.e. a while after the next instrument is being shipped.

[DavidDever]

That might very well be the case, but didn't they actually add osc restart on the Tetra (and possibly the MoPho series as well)? Regardless of the P'08's age it shouldn't be too difficult to add features that the other products based on the same lineage have. The latest Tetra OS beta was released in August and that is officially a discontinued product - The Prophet 08 isn't!

That assumes that the microprocessor hardware (including flash storage and available RAM) is identical between the Prophet '08 / Mopho * / Tetra, which is probably not the case given the spread in years between their introductions.

This is what I'd like to see:

Software:

• NRPN harmonization - within the limits of the MIDI spec, it would be quite beneficial for all (future) DSI instruments to standardize upon a harmonized grid of NRPN assignments, which would enable a dedicated knobby / touch-slidered hardware controller for use with any of the family of DSI instruments (I have been considering this as a wintertime embedded project). It might also allow for a re-usable footprint as far as software editors go.
• Code-complete MIDI sysex documentation, negating the need to reverse-engineer sysex dumps for software editors (see above)

Hardware:

• Low-cost (four-voice?) module - say, four independent "voices" of Prophet-12 or one Pro-2 voice, in the style of the Tetra–though frankly I'd be happy with just one Pro-2 paraphonic voice expansion.
• DCO synth with built-in effects, or at the least, quad delays as used on the Pro-2
• A Tempest-compatible voice expander, with multitimbral sample + DCO + filter architecture, including voice stealing and assignable outs

[Sacred Synthesis]

The Prophet '08 has been released about 9 years ago. There's not going to be another firmware update again. The last feature that has been added was the arpeggiator latch mode and that was roughly 3 years ago.

I'm not going for a defeatist tone here, rather a reality check after which it's totally unrealistic to expect any new features to be added to the Prophet '08. The work on this synth is definitely done. There's nothing that makes it critical in use and there are no more bugs to fix. So you should all take it for what it is.

I'd sadly have to agree with Paul.  The Prophet '08 is a finished instrument, and DSI is looking elsewhere.  The whole add-a-feature notion no longer applies to it.  Take it for what it is, appreciate it in spite of a few shortcomings, and leave it be.  We should be thankful if the Prophet '08 is merely kept in production for some time.  But all the focus is now on the newer instruments.

[LoboLives]

No I agree that the P08 is a finished product. That's why I don't think anything similar will follow it. I have a feeling at Winter NAMM it won't even be a new synth at all.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I have a feeling at Winter NAMM it won't even be a new synth at all.

What do you mean - that DSI will be introducing at NAMM a device other than a keyboard instrument?

[Paul Dither]

I have a feeling at Winter NAMM it won't even be a new synth at all.

What do you mean - that DSI will be introducing at NAMM a device other than a keyboard instrument?

Haha! Last night I dreamt that DSI is going to discontinue the Tempest because they were introducing a new sample-based drum machine at Winter NAMM. But I only attribute that vision to the fact that I read about the Jomox Alpha Base before I went to sleep. 

Nah, I still think there's going to be a new synth. And I also think that it's unlikely that they are going to drop keyboards. If anything, the last releases proved that this is what they're about. I assume, though, that the next instrument will be neither a replacement for the Prophet '08 (after all, it's still in production), nor related to the Prophet 12/Pro 2 or the Prophet-6/OB-6. But then, I know as much as everybody else, so it could easily be wrong. After all, it won't take that long anymore to find out.

[eXode]

A Tempest-compatible voice expander, with multitimbral sample + DCO + filter architecture, including voice stealing and assignable outs

I would have liked a 6 voice Tetra style module (Hexa), or a MoPho X6 style keyboard based on the Tempest voice but sadly it did not happen, and I somehow doubt it will. I might be wrong but I have a feeling that the days of CEM "synth on a chip" are but gone now. For better or worse.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Since I would have guessed an all-digital instrument and we've been told that will definitely not be the case, I truly have no idea what DSI will be giving us next.  But I'll be equally interested to see the size/length of it.  I expect that DSI will continue the keyboard-module pairing of instruments, but will the keyboard versions resume the "normative" five-octave size?  And will DSI ever surpass the Prophet 12?  I'm hoping for two affirmatives.  It would be fabulous to see them outdo themselves with a large-scale analog poly synth.  Anything less has little interest to me.  I haven't taken to the digital imitations of analog instruments these past few years.  They've been interesting but disappointing in tonal quality.  Plus, I'd love to see DSI offer Modal Electronics a little competition at more reasonable prices.

[eXode]

Perhaps it'll be a CS-6 based on the CS-60, or a Sub Six based on the Sub Phatty.