I think I found a tuning bug ?

I think I found a tuning bug ?
« on: May 07, 2024, 09:14:04 PM »
First off I'm planning on opening a ticket as well about this but wanted to see if anyone else has noticed this on either the module or keyboard version. I have a serial 327 desktop trigon 6 module. The issue is that the 2nd osc goes out of tune quite a bit more than all the others. It seems to be present on all the voices and not just one so it might be a calibration bug vs hardware since I highly doubt all my voice cards are defective in the same wat. It's super noticeable on triangle waveforms but any of the others (waveforms) will show the issue as well. Osc 1 to 3 always seems to be in almost perfect tune all the time. If you retune the problem goes away until a power cycle or you drop 1 degree from the internal probe (via checking with the button combo of glide + hold + 3). It will sort it self out after some power on time. I have a hunch its not storing the cal data correctly for the 2nd osc and just fine for osc 1 and 3 ? I have also tried clearing cal data and starting over with the same issue but not quite as noticeable.

Edit: Forgot to mention the vintage knob is not engaged and these are all init peaches that exhibit the issues
« Last Edit: May 07, 2024, 10:18:07 PM by yuki_the_synth_dragon »

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2024, 09:26:47 PM »
I have owned a T6 module for almost a year and have never had tuning problems.

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2024, 09:55:40 PM »
I have 100% been able to reproduce the issue between oscillators 1 and 2 on another trigon 6 desktop ! I have 2 of them in my possession atm since I'm sending one back due to an unrelated 2 / 4 pole filter switch issue. I have a desktop serial 245 with the same exact issue. I'm assuming they are not storing the values correctly for the 2nd osc during calibration or the routine does something odd with osc 2...
« Last Edit: May 07, 2024, 09:59:39 PM by yuki_the_synth_dragon »

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2024, 08:40:40 PM »
I have a Trigon-6 desktop unit (serial number 193). And I do think I observe some of the behavior you are describing. I was working from home today, and my keyboards are perilously close to my work space. So I tested the Trigon-6 throughout the day with some power cycling, some recalibration, and some indiscriminate jamming because it just sounds so good. I tested the tuning with an app on my iPhone (Tuner T1 Pro). The tuning of oscillator 2 did seem more often to be a bit high compared to oscillators 1 and 3. The app has a "green zone" indicating "in tune" and the 6 voice cards with oscillator 2 would sometimes be just north of that green zone sometimes when the other 2 oscillators were still "green".

To my ears (without the app involved), it still sounded great. I absolutely do not have an ear for knowing if things are in tune and exactly on the precise note. So I can imagine (well, okay, I am certain) that I don't realize when tuning is slightly off. But, on the other hand, I really love the sound and suspect that might be due partially to the inexact nature of the tuning.

It was definitely an interesting exercise, and it does seem you might be on to something. As a result of this, I will be a little more careful about checking the tuning now when recording an audio track. But I also would not want for anything to change with the synth. This variability in the tuning of these instruments makes me a little bit happy.

I'm glad you started this thread. I will keep my eye (um, ear) on it a bit more closely and see/hear where it goes.

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2024, 08:56:41 PM »
I have a Trigon-6 desktop unit (serial number 193). And I do think I observe some of the behavior you are describing. I was working from home today, and my keyboards are perilously close to my work space. So I tested the Trigon-6 throughout the day with some power cycling, some recalibration, and some indiscriminate jamming because it just sounds so good. I tested the tuning with an app on my iPhone (Tuner T1 Pro). The tuning of oscillator 2 did seem more often to be a bit high compared to oscillators 1 and 3. The app has a "green zone" indicating "in tune" and the 6 voice cards with oscillator 2 would sometimes be just north of that green zone sometimes when the other 2 oscillators were still "green".

To my ears (without the app involved), it still sounded great. I absolutely do not have an ear for knowing if things are in tune and exactly on the precise note. So I can imagine (well, okay, I am certain) that I don't realize when tuning is slightly off. But, on the other hand, I really love the sound and suspect that might be due partially to the inexact nature of the tuning.

It was definitely an interesting exercise, and it does seem you might be on to something. As a result of this, I will be a little more careful about checking the tuning now when recording an audio track. But I also would not want for anything to change with the synth. This variability in the tuning of these instruments makes me a little bit happy.

I'm glad you started this thread. I will keep my eye (um, ear) on it a bit more closely and see/hear where it goes.

Thanks for the reply ! I have actually made a video with the issue to further illustrate it. I hope it can be fixed with software updates. I did open a ticket with support hence making the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9li2Ru38O7k

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2024, 08:57:17 PM »
What version firmware is on your T6?

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2024, 09:12:54 PM »
What version firmware is on your T6?
1.11 the newest one does not fix tuning issues and is beta so I have not tried it nor did support advise me to try it.

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2024, 06:37:38 AM »
I wonder since itís always osc 2 it might be a bug with what was fixed in firmware 1.1.1. Specifically:

Bug Fix: Osc 2 now follows alternate tuning scales

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2024, 08:02:04 PM »
Support had me install version 1.1.2 which solved the random muting of the output on power on until you moved the volume I showed off in the video. The tuning is a bit less sporadic with a fresh power on as well now.

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2024, 04:17:25 PM »
I've been paying closer attention to the tuning since my post a few days ago. I've run the tuning process two or three times since then. In the last two or three days, it has been very stable. It is quite possible that I have not done the tuning enough times. So I am thinking now that I am not observing any tuning issues problems.

I do notice that it seems to take longer to reach stability after turning it on than my Prophet 6 (two or three minutes vs a few seconds). I have one of the 2022 Minimoog Model D re-releases, and the time for it to reach stability seems equivalent with the Trigon 6. I assume that is random coincidence, but I kind of like the idea that the Trigon-6 feels a kinship with the Moog and tries to match its tuning vibe through some kind of future MIDI 10.0 that Dave Smith is perhaps working on in a better place. Yeah - I know I'm an idiot, but it is fun to think about. It's still weird to me how much I miss somebody (Dave Smith) who I never met or communicated with.

Oh ... and I watched your youtube video on the Trigon-6. Nicely done! I enjoyed it and subscribed to your channel.

Re: I think I found a tuning bug ?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2024, 09:37:17 PM »
I've been paying closer attention to the tuning since my post a few days ago. I've run the tuning process two or three times since then. In the last two or three days, it has been very stable. It is quite possible that I have not done the tuning enough times. So I am thinking now that I am not observing any tuning issues problems.

I do notice that it seems to take longer to reach stability after turning it on than my Prophet 6 (two or three minutes vs a few seconds). I have one of the 2022 Minimoog Model D re-releases, and the time for it to reach stability seems equivalent with the Trigon 6. I assume that is random coincidence, but I kind of like the idea that the Trigon-6 feels a kinship with the Moog and tries to match its tuning vibe through some kind of future MIDI 10.0 that Dave Smith is perhaps working on in a better place. Yeah - I know I'm an idiot, but it is fun to think about. It's still weird to me how much I miss somebody (Dave Smith) who I never met or communicated with.

Oh ... and I watched your youtube video on the Trigon-6. Nicely done! I enjoyed it and subscribed to your channel.

Thanks for the sub ! Yeah my model has been getting better over time as well !