Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x

Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« on: April 01, 2024, 06:18:02 PM »
Hi Folks,

Just grabbed a P10 Module.
Have MIDI out from my Montage M8x connected to the P10 Module's MIDI input.
Made sure MIDI channels are set the same.
Playing the Montage, about 1 out of every 8-10 notes are played by the P10 Module... and the notes are stuck (not released).

At first, I thought the P10 Module was defective.
Connected a 3rd Wave to the P10 Module (same settings)... and notes triggered just fine (P10 Module sounds/responds as expected.

Connect the Montage M8x to the 3rd Wave (same settings) to make sure I'm not crazy... :D
M8x triggers the 3rd Wave exactly as expected.

I've turned off every transmit option on the M8x other than MIDI notes.
I've changed Poly Aftertouch to Channel (made zero difference).

There must be something in the M8x's MIDI stream that's choking the P10 Module.
I have MIDI sync disabled.

Anyone have any idea what I'm missing?
I loaded the latest firmware/panel updates.  Same behavior.

Was really wanting to trigger the P10 Module (especially live) from the M8x.
Not sure that's going to be possible.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2024, 08:23:35 PM »
Have you tried hooking up the Yamaha to midimonitor.com or similar to see exactly what it is spitting out? It might help to diagnose the issue.

Could it be something like the Yamaha has some kind of keyboard split active with notes being sent on different channels? If that were the case and P10 were set to receive on a single channel but 3rd Wave were set to omni, that could explain why one stoked and the other didnít.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2024, 08:27:16 PM by Quatschmacher »

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2024, 05:43:47 AM »
Have you tried hooking up the Yamaha to midimonitor.com or similar to see exactly what it is spitting out? It might help to diagnose the issue.

Could it be something like the Yamaha has some kind of keyboard split active with notes being sent on different channels? If that were the case and P10 were set to receive on a single channel but 3rd Wave were set to omni, that could explain why one stoked and the other didnít.

Thanks for the tip with midimonitor.com 
Connected via USB (pretty sure the same happens with 5-pin DIN MIDI), there's a constant stream of
System Exclusive FE messages.

Trying to figure out what they're for... and if it's possible to disable them.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2024, 06:31:10 AM »
Have you tried hooking up the Yamaha to midimonitor.com or similar to see exactly what it is spitting out? It might help to diagnose the issue.

Could it be something like the Yamaha has some kind of keyboard split active with notes being sent on different channels? If that were the case and P10 were set to receive on a single channel but 3rd Wave were set to omni, that could explain why one stoked and the other didnít.

Thanks for the tip with midimonitor.com 
Connected via USB (pretty sure the same happens with 5-pin DIN MIDI), there's a constant stream of
System Exclusive FE messages.

Trying to figure out what they're for... and if it's possible to disable them.
Donít know if that is a Yamaha thing: my DX7 sends those same messages too and I have no idea what they are for.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2024, 06:32:45 AM by Quatschmacher »

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2024, 12:05:43 PM »
Donít know if that is a Yamaha thing: my DX7 sends those same messages too and I have no idea what they are for.

The only thing I can think of is to get a box that allows filtering out SysEx.
Weird issue to have in today's MIDI world.
I've tried disabling every MIDI option on the Montage M8x.  Nothing stops that SysEx message.   :o

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2024, 01:01:39 PM »
FWIW, I've seen similar MIDI emissions from most if not all my Yamaha synths, going back to the DX100. For that reason, if I ever need to use my ReFace DX as a controller, I resort to one of these:
https://midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm
Sequential | Oberheim

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2024, 04:25:17 AM »
FWIW, I've seen similar MIDI emissions from most if not all my Yamaha synths, going back to the DX100. For that reason, if I ever need to use my ReFace DX as a controller, I resort to one of these:
https://midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm

Thanks for the link.
I've got a similar box that's supposed to arrive tomorrow.
Sounds like filtering out the SysEx messages is the only solution.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2024, 07:19:46 AM »
Looks like the MIDI Messages are Active Sense (which the M8x sends every 200ms).
It would be nice if Yamaha provided a means to disable sending Active Sense messages.
Until then, it looks like the MIDI Filter box is the only solution.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2024, 11:15:28 AM »
Posting this hoping it helps someone in the future.
Received the MIDI Filter box... and filtering Active Sensing messages does indeed solve the problem.
The Prophet-10 Module now plays/responds exactly as expected.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2024, 04:53:50 PM »
Posting this hoping it helps someone in the future.
Received the MIDI Filter box... and filtering Active Sensing messages does indeed solve the problem.
The Prophet-10 Module now plays/responds exactly as expected.
Great news. I do wonder what on earth those sensing messages are used for.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 11:44:13 PM »
I suggest connecting a dedicated MIDI monitor device between the Montage and P10 which will allow you to see the raw MIDI data stream and diagnose any issues there.

Re: Prophet 10 module - MIDI issue with Montage M8x
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2024, 06:00:59 AM »
I suggest connecting a dedicated MIDI monitor device between the Montage and P10 which will allow you to see the raw MIDI data stream and diagnose any issues there.

That's exactly what was done. 
midimonitor.com showed the M8x sending Active Sensing messages every 200ms.
The P10 Module couldn't cope with this.
Added a MIDI Filter box (set to filter Active Sensing messages)... and the P10 Model now plays/responds as expected.