Prophet 6 beat sync

Prophet 6 beat sync
« on: February 06, 2024, 04:36:49 AM »
How do I make my prophet 6 beat sync via Midi clock. I have now managed to send midi clock to the prophet, but if I don’t hit precisely it gets out of time. I bought my prophet in 2021 so the update should be up to time

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2024, 05:46:52 AM »
I have a bit of the same problem I think.

The Prophet 6 receives synchronization via Ableton Live to trigger the sequencer but, very quickly after a few measures, the Prophet 6 sequencer goes out of sync.

Syncro USB.

WHAT TO DO ?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 05:48:39 AM by lvbeethoven »
Tiptop Audio Buchla System
ASM Hydrasynth
Endorphin.es Shuttle System
Soma Pulsar23
Sequential Prophet 6, Rev2, Pro3
Waldorf Quantum
Akai MPC One
Moog DFAM
Arturia Microfreak
Beringher Model D
Elektron Digitakt
Korg Nautilus

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2024, 06:01:46 AM »
I feel like USB is crap. Out of sync and unable to capture midi notes from the sequencer in Ableton.

Either I'm an idiot or this thing is poorly designed in this regard.
Tiptop Audio Buchla System
ASM Hydrasynth
Endorphin.es Shuttle System
Soma Pulsar23
Sequential Prophet 6, Rev2, Pro3
Waldorf Quantum
Akai MPC One
Moog DFAM
Arturia Microfreak
Beringher Model D
Elektron Digitakt
Korg Nautilus

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2024, 09:29:44 AM »
I have not used usb on my P6 since I bought it in 2017, so I can't comment on that but it works great using DIN cables. I should give it a try. :)
Prophet X, Prophet 6, Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Wavestate, NDLR, Arturia Matrixbrute, Waldorf Iridium, BARP 2600, Eurorack and altogether too many guitars.

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2024, 10:12:54 AM »
But do you have to activate something on the prophet or does it happen automatically?

timboréale

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Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2024, 10:18:06 AM »
If what you're talking about is the arpeggiator being in-time but off-phase (as you mention "if I don't hit it precisely it gets out of time") - note that it's a Dave Smith intentional design decision (documented elsewhere in I believe interviews with him) where it's clear that he doesn't believe in aligning arppegiators to the beat - they'll "sync" in that the repeats are a correct fraction of the MIDI tempo apart, but they're as on- or off-the-beat as you play the first hit. This is so that people who want to play "off time" intentionally can, with correct virtuosity. His view, as I gather, was never that machines should make your music perfect for you, but that a degree of artistic excellence was still required, in order to allow for a wider range of nuance in the performance.

As such, it is intentional that the phase-timing of the arpeggiated notes is solely determined by how accurately (or, intentionally, not) you hit the first chord relative to the beat. The only solution is therefore to play it accurately.

===

If you're talking about sync with Ableton, the same thing applies, only note that Ableton is always trying to do some (usually incorrect, at least from the user's intention-perspective) correction for latency on *everything*. This includes both MIDI clock AND MIDI notes. I have read forums where people have basically torn their hair out trying to get Ableton and external MIDI sequencers to work well together, and some have resorted to extreme measures like an audio-based MIDI clock adapter instead of relying on Ableton's MIDI clock itself, it's so difficult to figure out what's pulling it off the beat and why. Combine this with the above-mentioned intentional design of the P6's (and most other DSI synths, IIRC) arp, and you've got a recipe for things being very much not where you want them to be, when it's Ableton driving.

The solutions, as far as I can tell are: stop using Ableton and use something else, use Ableton with a Multiclock or some other audio-based (and not MIDI-based) clock synching tool, or get an external hardware sequencer and fight Ableton to sync to it - everything else (including your P6) will sync nicely to the external hardware that way and you've only got Ableton to fight at that point, instead of Ableton + everything else too.

Take this with a grain of salt, though, as I hate Ableton enough to use it only as a multitrack recorder these days and delegate all of my sequencing to external hardware. Using USB with that, to the P6, I haven't personally noticed any issues, so from my experience the P6 does the right thing (at least, according to its designed intention) with USB MIDI when it's driven properly (e.g. not by Ableton).
Prophet 6 keyboard, Rev2-16, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Nords, etc...

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2024, 07:50:43 AM »
If what you're talking about is the arpeggiator being in-time but off-phase (as you mention "if I don't hit it precisely it gets out of time") - note that it's a Dave Smith intentional design decision (documented elsewhere in I believe interviews with him) where it's clear that he doesn't believe in aligning arppegiators to the beat - they'll "sync" in that the repeats are a correct fraction of the MIDI tempo apart, but they're as on- or off-the-beat as you play the first hit. This is so that people who want to play "off time" intentionally can, with correct virtuosity. His view, as I gather, was never that machines should make your music perfect for you, but that a degree of artistic excellence was still required, in order to allow for a wider range of nuance in the performance.

As such, it is intentional that the phase-timing of the arpeggiated notes is solely determined by how accurately (or, intentionally, not) you hit the first chord relative to the beat. The only solution is therefore to play it accurately.

===

If you're talking about sync with Ableton, the same thing applies, only note that Ableton is always trying to do some (usually incorrect, at least from the user's intention-perspective) correction for latency on *everything*. This includes both MIDI clock AND MIDI notes. I have read forums where people have basically torn their hair out trying to get Ableton and external MIDI sequencers to work well together, and some have resorted to extreme measures like an audio-based MIDI clock adapter instead of relying on Ableton's MIDI clock itself, it's so difficult to figure out what's pulling it off the beat and why. Combine this with the above-mentioned intentional design of the P6's (and most other DSI synths, IIRC) arp, and you've got a recipe for things being very much not where you want them to be, when it's Ableton driving.

The solutions, as far as I can tell are: stop using Ableton and use something else, use Ableton with a Multiclock or some other audio-based (and not MIDI-based) clock synching tool, or get an external hardware sequencer and fight Ableton to sync to it - everything else (including your P6) will sync nicely to the external hardware that way and you've only got Ableton to fight at that point, instead of Ableton + everything else too.

Take this with a grain of salt, though, as I hate Ableton enough to use it only as a multitrack recorder these days and delegate all of my sequencing to external hardware. Using USB with that, to the P6, I haven't personally noticed any issues, so from my experience the P6 does the right thing (at least, according to its designed intention) with USB MIDI when it's driven properly (e.g. not by Ableton).

(Google traduction)
I shouldn't have to purchase (as a customer) any equipment, nor should I spend time studying a problem related to a product defect, and furthermore, I neither have the time nor the money.

The Prophet 6 and certainly all other Sequential instruments, as they are sold, have issues with interfacing between the instrument and the DAW. My experience (+2 years with Pro3, Rev2, and Prophet 6) is sufficient to understand and state this.

It's up to Sequential to intervene regarding the instruments they sell:

They should provide free interface plugins that will establish the connection between the instrument and the DAW, ensuring reliability in all aspects.

Has Sequential not taken the time to reevaluate the prices of its products in recent years?

They should do the same to provide computer hardware that ensures the connection between the instruments they sell and third-party software like Ableton or others.

It's not up to the customer to pay. "I plug in my instrument, it should work."

I had a Polybrute for 2 weeks, and a free interface management software was provided with it. Completely transparent, it ensured the connection with all the functions accessible on the synthesizer's front panel, etc., via the DAW.

I had no issues in 2 weeks. You may not understand, but I'll reiterate: No issues!

Therefore, let's be clear that it's not the customer's responsibility to address these dysfunctions present in Sequential products.

Otherwise, the customer... goes to the competition.

Regarding Ableton:
Ableton is among the best software in the world. We work on all aspects with it.

Ableton = Plugins = fast, ergonomic, reliable. Very regular updates.
Ableton costs $600 and works fully in every detail.
Moreover, it's cheaper than hardware with limited functionalities.

For general production, Ableton is among the most reliable systems. I've been using it for 10 years, it's very economical, and musically powerful.

A Prophet 6 costs over $3200 and doesn't function correctly on crucial points.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 07:54:06 AM by lvbeethoven »
Tiptop Audio Buchla System
ASM Hydrasynth
Endorphin.es Shuttle System
Soma Pulsar23
Sequential Prophet 6, Rev2, Pro3
Waldorf Quantum
Akai MPC One
Moog DFAM
Arturia Microfreak
Beringher Model D
Elektron Digitakt
Korg Nautilus

timboréale

  • **
  • 206
  • MIDI nerd
Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2024, 08:13:54 AM »
The Prophet 6 and certainly all other Sequential instruments, as they are sold, have issues with interfacing between the instrument and the DAW. My experience (+2 years with Pro3, Rev2, and Prophet 6) is sufficient to understand and state this.

You're certainly free to have your own opinion and share your own experiences on the subject, and no doubt there are some others who have similar, but
a) my experiences don't align with yours so I don't think it's fair or appropriate to assume your experiences are universal, because they aren't and
b) a LOT of other people have good success sequencing DSI/Sequential gear using gear other than Ableton (and/or with some additional equipment to help make up for what Ableton provably and measurably does badly in that regard) and
c) a LOT of other people have serious issues sequencing anything external with Ableton and getting it to line up properly on the beat, no matter what gear it is, and it's not appropriate for you to discount that fact either.

So while I'm not saying you're wrong - I don't doubt you're having the trouble you say you are - I'm asking you to keep an open mind that maybe you're having a situational problem that could be resolved with a little more awareness of the potential causes and interactions on your part, and maybe the fault isn't always with someone else or someone else's gear. Try to understand how the gear you're using actually behaves instead of expecting everything to conform to the way you want it to behave, and you might have better success working with and around it to get what you want! :)
Prophet 6 keyboard, Rev2-16, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Nords, etc...

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2024, 12:22:47 PM »
I’ve never had and issues with clock timing with Ableton on either usb or din. You will very likely need to adjust the midi clock delay setting in ableton to get it perfectly in sync. Once that’s set it should be sweet.

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2024, 08:43:45 AM »
No issues here either. I regularly send midi to my P6 from my DAW (Cubase) via DIN and have not ever had any sync problems at all. A while back I did a series of classical music pieces that heavily featured the Prophet 6. Here's one of them. The P6 is doing mostly strings. All recorded using midi tracks from Cubase.

https://soundcloud.com/user-233652849/dvorak-9th-symphony-op-95-scherzo

Keith
Prophet X, Prophet 6, Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Wavestate, NDLR, Arturia Matrixbrute, Waldorf Iridium, BARP 2600, Eurorack and altogether too many guitars.

Re: Prophet 6 beat sync
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2024, 08:48:14 PM »
I’ve never had and issues with clock timing with Ableton on either usb or din. You will very likely need to adjust the midi clock delay setting in ableton to get it perfectly in sync. Once that’s set it should be sweet. Death By AI
Thanks. I tried it and everything worked fine.