Prophet REV 2 with Ableton External Instrument experiencing MIDI FEEDBACK

[javip08]

Hi!

Hopefully someone can help me, I think I'm dealing with a common need for people who buy a hardware synth and in search of a common workflow as well.

MY GOAL:
I want to use prophet rev2 with Ableton and use it as a synth and as a master midi keyboard with a SIMLPE workflow. I’ve been trying this for ages ( even with the old prophet 08 ) with no luck because always end up facing MIDI FEEDBACK ISSUES ( turning knobs on the prophet )

• Using Ableton
• Using the prophet rev 2 as a master midi keyboard
• Using the prophet rev 2 as a synth with the “external midi instrument effect” from ableton, recording midi ( notes, cc from knobs, etc.. )  and audio from it with no midi feedback issues
• Using a good simple workflow (  Ideally, “arming” the track i want to record , and using the keyboard,  So no constantly switching on the Rev 2 the local control on and off, or changing configuratinos constantly in the tracks I want to use the Rev 2 as a midi controller
  

SYNTH SETTINGS:

• Local control : off. 
• Midi param send: cc.
• Midi param receive: cc
• Midi control: on
• Midi channel: 1

ABLETON PROJECT MIDI SETTINGS
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ikiaop12n0vm0je4r08sm/ableton-config.png?rlkey=hut3oc1ltzaeuza7a1atd8j2y&dl=0



ABLETON PROJECT TRACK LAYOUT:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/q8eihpp6u3161kmbug77m/ableton-project.png?rlkey=ido2o9hy7vktgvbhfltp5oc5r&dl=0


MAIN PROBLEM - MIDI FEEDBACK
The knob is clearly experiencing midi feedback, the range is not complete even if i go from min to max, etc..
And the same happen with notes ( notes are getting re-triggered
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/c0lz0xp77zvmyj0wdzpxv/rev-2-midi-feedback.MOV?rlkey=iod0wklaf53c3o4v6lu3atqm2&dl=0


SOLUTION:
- I need to use the external instrument effect. ( Don't want to rely on using normal midi tracks without the external instrument effect. )


I don't understand how this can be so complex, when configuring other more simple/cheaper synths ( like for example a yamaha DX reface , turning local on and off does the thing flawlessly )
Could please someone help me?
I'm a bit desperate by now.

Best Regards,

----

****** UPDATE ********
The only way I found to do what I'm explaining here, is to BUY the CODEKNOBS plugin ( https://codeknobs.com/products.php?id=7 ) , and combine a set of things:
- installing the plugin as codeknobs tell you ( configuring ableton as they tell you, configuring the synth as they tell you )
- enabling on the plugin output aux support ( enabling on the plugin, and on the ableton midi ports selecting the aux generated port )
- enabling on the plugin local support ( and putting on the synth local control off )
In my humble opinion, this can of functinality should be delivered by SEQUENTIAL out of the box, without needing a third party plugin.

[Autosynther]

I only have the desktop but listening on headphones and have localcontrol off I can play notes on midi input and knobs does not affect sound at least.
- also tested in daw, and knobs send data including main volume

Keyboard version might be different, but I think your feedback loop is in Ableton.
- cannot see a problem in REV2 at all, knobs are disconnected with local off and only send data
- are you using both midi out as din and usb?

But as I recall different daws have different monitor modes, tape style and others saying when monitoring is active, if on playback, when recording only etc.

If local control is off and echoed/monitored through daw you should be able to test like this
- turn off monitor in daw on midi track for this test
- have monitor of audio from REV2 on through daw(which you normally have)
- listen to sound from REV2 letting ableton send some notes from a track(playback)
- turning knobs should not affect sound at all!!!!

This test would rule out that internal connection still exist between knobs and internal engine despite local control is off.

Turning on monitoring on a midi track should not create a feedback loop.

- So seems to me you have some monitoring loopback if this happends

I would look at disable or look at settings for external instrument feature. I used that external instrument device in Cubase long ago and abandoned that, created more issues than it solved. You could use freeze track and it did all the work for you, but prefer just doing recording from midi playback instead.

I have drums, piano, hammond and 3 synths as external gear having no issues.

What I do for Hammond having a bit weird midi implementation is having local on and no monitoring on the midi track you record, just armed for record.
- monitor audio from gear though daw
- I get recorded midi to use for playback later, but don't need midi monitor through.

If having monitor on in ableton that could be a workaround to use instead.

When not wanting midi gear powered up anymore I just record audio from that midi track later. Straight forward and simple.

Just some ideas...