Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?

Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« on: January 06, 2024, 08:43:11 AM »
So I just got the desktop OB-6, and I love a lot of the presets. And it's on my todo list to spend time to learn basic sound design with the OB6. I'll probably work along with the Mark Doty YouTube video series to do that.

Still, I'd like to know the easist way to view all the parameter setting for factor presets. I know to watch for the red dot  on the red LCD as I turn the parameter. That's nice, but tedious.

I also know there are VSTs sold here. And third party VSTs and iOS apps, like the OBxd and one from GeoForce.

So what's the easiest and most convenient way to get to these settings?

Thanks,
Joe

P.S. Don't want to be a bother to you folks, so I'll tamper down the number of new questions / posts for now.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2024, 05:47:34 PM »
I donít have an OB-6, but I do have a Prophet-6 and a Trigon-6 so Ö kind of in a similar situation. With amazingly huge reservations, I would recommend the Soundtower editor. I bought the editor for my Prophet-6 many years ago (shortly after buying the synth) and (with much hesitation) bought the editor and plugin for the Trigon-6 shortly after I bought that synth.

I actually quite like the Soundtower interface Ö but it is the buggiest piece of software I have ever dealt with in my life. But when it works, itís pretty great. It shows the settings that you have on the synth: click a button or twist a knob on the synth and the display updates. Very cool! Except when it doesnít Ö Sometimes it simply doesnít update the display. Switch to another app and then back and it *might* update. Or maybe not. Or stop the app and then start it again and maybe it shows the current state of the hardware. You can never be sure it is actually working. You might save a patch Ö and it *might* save the current state (but you might find later when you open the saved patch that it did not save what you expected).

So Ö yeah Ö I would recommend the editor but I would give the plugin version a pass (Iím assuming that the plugin version exists for the OB-6). With the editor, you can twist a knob and get a visual hint that the display in the Soundtower editor is updating correctly. But the plugin simply canít be trusted to save your settings with the project. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnít.

My suspicion is that a relatively good software developer created the original version of Soundtower and then sold it to someone else to continue development. And that person/organization is subpar in terms of dev skills.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2024, 05:53:33 AM »
Thanks, Mark! I downloaded the two plugin demos last night.  Iíll keep your feedback in mind on the editor.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2024, 06:01:04 AM »
I donít have an OB-6, but I do have a Prophet-6 and a Trigon-6 so Ö kind of in a similar situation. With amazingly huge reservations, I would recommend the Soundtower editor. I bought the editor for my Prophet-6 many years ago (shortly after buying the synth) and (with much hesitation) bought the editor and plugin for the Trigon-6 shortly after I bought that synth.

I actually quite like the Soundtower interface Ö but it is the buggiest piece of software I have ever dealt with in my life. But when it works, itís pretty great. It shows the settings that you have on the synth: click a button or twist a knob on the synth and the display updates. Very cool! Except when it doesnít Ö Sometimes it simply doesnít update the display. Switch to another app and then back and it *might* update. Or maybe not. Or stop the app and then start it again and maybe it shows the current state of the hardware. You can never be sure it is actually working. You might save a patch Ö and it *might* save the current state (but you might find later when you open the saved patch that it did not save what you expected).

So Ö yeah Ö I would recommend the editor but I would give the plugin version a pass (Iím assuming that the plugin version exists for the OB-6). With the editor, you can twist a knob and get a visual hint that the display in the Soundtower editor is updating correctly. But the plugin simply canít be trusted to save your settings with the project. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnít.

My suspicion is that a relatively good software developer created the original version of Soundtower and then sold it to someone else to continue development. And that person/organization is subpar in terms of dev skills.

Interesting.. can I ask if you are connecting through USB or through the MIDI port?

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2024, 08:48:37 AM »
I donít have an OB-6, but I do have a Prophet-6 and a Trigon-6 so Ö kind of in a similar situation. With amazingly huge reservations, I would recommend the Soundtower editor. I bought the editor for my Prophet-6 many years ago (shortly after buying the synth) and (with much hesitation) bought the editor and plugin for the Trigon-6 shortly after I bought that synth.

I actually quite like the Soundtower interface Ö but it is the buggiest piece of software I have ever dealt with in my life. But when it works, itís pretty great. It shows the settings that you have on the synth: click a button or twist a knob on the synth and the display updates. Very cool! Except when it doesnít Ö Sometimes it simply doesnít update the display. Switch to another app and then back and it *might* update. Or maybe not. Or stop the app and then start it again and maybe it shows the current state of the hardware. You can never be sure it is actually working. You might save a patch Ö and it *might* save the current state (but you might find later when you open the saved patch that it did not save what you expected).

So Ö yeah Ö I would recommend the editor but I would give the plugin version a pass (Iím assuming that the plugin version exists for the OB-6). With the editor, you can twist a knob and get a visual hint that the display in the Soundtower editor is updating correctly. But the plugin simply canít be trusted to save your settings with the project. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnít.

My suspicion is that a relatively good software developer created the original version of Soundtower and then sold it to someone else to continue development. And that person/organization is subpar in terms of dev skills.

Soundtower is very good. I own the editor and plugins for all my DSI/Sequential synths. I use the plugins all the time. Nice to have automation in the DAW that's easy to manage. And patch management is so easy to keep with each track I work on.  Sure I have raised plenty of bugs with them over the years - but they are helpful, do listen and fix them.
Prophet X. Prophet 12 Module. Prophet 6 Module. Ob-6 Module. Trigon-6 Module. Eventide H9000R (x2). Tegeler Audio Schwerkraftmaschine / Raumzeitmaschine / Creme RC (x3). Bettermaker Mastering Limiter, Mastering EQ, Mastering Compressor. Avid S3.
Mac Studio. Logic.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2024, 01:14:22 PM »
Interesting.. can I ask if you are connecting through USB or through the MIDI port?

I have tried both. I am currently using USB, but I have used MIDI cables (e.g., through my RME Babyface PRO FS). I have not noticed any real difference in reliability between the two. My current USB connection is actually routed through an iConnectivity mioXM, which is hard wired into one of my Google Mesh pucks and then my M3 Macbook is using WiFi to talk to the network. If something can go wrong with that setup, it will. But ... I honestly have not been able to discern any difference in functionality/reliability between that and using a direct MIDI connection.

I do have some knowledge of interprocess communications via networking and other means, so I kind of understand the difficulties involved. Example unrelated answer from me so long ago (I stopped answering stack overflow questions about 10 years ago):  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1911203/way-to-implement-ipc/1911362#1911362 I worked on a product where I wrote a lot of the communication stack between client and server. So I think I appreciate why things might or might not work unexpectedly ... but ... "back when I was a kid, I made those things work and the comms were way less reliable ... and I had to walk to work barefoot in the snow uphill both ways ... " :)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2024, 01:44:57 PM by markwilkins »

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2024, 01:28:28 PM »
Soundtower is very good. I own the editor and plugins for all my DSI/Sequential synths. I use the plugins all the time. Nice to have automation in the DAW that's easy to manage. And patch management is so easy to keep with each track I work on.  Sure I have raised plenty of bugs with them over the years - but they are helpful, do listen and fix them.

Excellent point about the automation! That actually is a good reason to get the plugin version of the software. I did quite love using that on my previous song.

One thing (as an example) I could not get working was to have the plugin reload the current patch settings. It simply never worked for me. I tested many times. I would save the project (Logic Pro) and then I would close Logic Pro. Then change the Trigon-6 patch on the hardware to something different. Then restart Logic Pro and then load the project. And it would never initialize the patch to the the one saved with the project. Maybe that isn't expected to work? I'm not sure. It seems like that would be obvious functionality.

The other bug that "bugs" me constantly (sorry :) ) is the fact that editor often does not refresh the (potentially) extremely useful graphics showing the ADSR values for amplitude and filter settings. I really love that feature. But I sometimes (often) look at it and realize that it cannot be correct. Then I tweak a knob or switch out of the patch and back to it and it "refreshes" and shows the right values. WTH? I don't know what's going on. I can't trust the values I see in the software. Another one is the effects setting; that is kind of minor but it almost never reflects the actual settings on the physical Trigon-6 device.

I am a software developer by profession and so I understand the difficulties in testing and release cycles. But I, honestly, would be embarrassed to be releasing that many bugs.

On the other hand, I am super glad to find that you (and hopefully others) find it to be working really well. It could be a fantastic value. If it "worked" perfectly, it would be worth twice as much as the selling price.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2024, 09:19:41 AM »
Soundtower is very good. I own the editor and plugins for all my DSI/Sequential synths. I use the plugins all the time. Nice to have automation in the DAW that's easy to manage. And patch management is so easy to keep with each track I work on.  Sure I have raised plenty of bugs with them over the years - but they are helpful, do listen and fix them.

Excellent point about the automation! That actually is a good reason to get the plugin version of the software. I did quite love using that on my previous song.

One thing (as an example) I could not get working was to have the plugin reload the current patch settings. It simply never worked for me. I tested many times. I would save the project (Logic Pro) and then I would close Logic Pro. Then change the Trigon-6 patch on the hardware to something different. Then restart Logic Pro and then load the project. And it would never initialize the patch to the the one saved with the project. Maybe that isn't expected to work? I'm not sure. It seems like that would be obvious functionality.

The other bug that "bugs" me constantly (sorry :) ) is the fact that editor often does not refresh the (potentially) extremely useful graphics showing the ADSR values for amplitude and filter settings. I really love that feature. But I sometimes (often) look at it and realize that it cannot be correct. Then I tweak a knob or switch out of the patch and back to it and it "refreshes" and shows the right values. WTH? I don't know what's going on. I can't trust the values I see in the software. Another one is the effects setting; that is kind of minor but it almost never reflects the actual settings on the physical Trigon-6 device.

I am a software developer by profession and so I understand the difficulties in testing and release cycles. But I, honestly, would be embarrassed to be releasing that many bugs.

On the other hand, I am super glad to find that you (and hopefully others) find it to be working really well. It could be a fantastic value. If it "worked" perfectly, it would be worth twice as much as the selling price.

I barely use the editors so will check out the bug you refer to on the envelopes display.

Im using Logic and Mac.

For patch recall in the daw. Use the Soundtower plugin.

1. Choose the patch on the synth you want to recall.
2. In the ST plugin go to the preset manager (three lines on the top left/F5)
3. The temporary preset you have selected will be shown in the top window. In the lower window you will see the preset you are going to replace. Choose OK.
4. You will see the preset bank window with your new patch saved over the previous patch. Click Done on that screen.
5. Save your project.
6. Next time you open the project your chosen patch will be loaded into memory via the Soundtower plugin.

Obviously you need to keep the ST plugin enabled for this to work. I just place it in my external instrument channel and then the Automation sits in the same track as the synth midi track.

This does not mess with patches on the synth itself. As the preset bank is associated to the plugin and just loads up the patch to the synths temporary memory when loading up the DAW. If you make changes to patch just resave it in the plugin as above. I think this is quite slick as work specific to the project is retained, but doesn't eat up patches on the synth itself. And this method works with all my DSI/Sequential synths when using the ST plugin.

I have attached a few screen shots.

While not a developer I also work in the world of software development. So I feel somehow duty bound to report the bugs and help get them resolved.

Cheers.
Prophet X. Prophet 12 Module. Prophet 6 Module. Ob-6 Module. Trigon-6 Module. Eventide H9000R (x2). Tegeler Audio Schwerkraftmaschine / Raumzeitmaschine / Creme RC (x3). Bettermaker Mastering Limiter, Mastering EQ, Mastering Compressor. Avid S3.
Mac Studio. Logic.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2024, 07:26:48 PM »
Thank you for this information. I appreciate the explanation and walkthrough. I must be a complete moron, though, because it still does not work for me. I went through each step (I used a brand new project to try to eliminate conflicts with other plugins). I added an external track and chose the MIDI settings that talk to my Trigon-6. I added the Soundtower plugin. Chose a patch on the HW synth. Recorded some notes. Followed your well-written steps 1-6. Played the notes back to verify sounds were as expected. Saved the project, exited Logic Pro, changed the patch to something else on my Trigon, and then restarted Logic Pro. I clicked the plugin and it showed the correct patch name. But it did not play the saved patch; it played the one I had changed to while Logic Pro was closed. I twisted one of the attack knobs on the synth and verified it updated in the plugin view; so they are definitely talking to each other. But the plugin simply will not send the saved settings to my hardware.

I think I am using the latest version of Logic Pro (10.8.1). My Mac is on Sonoma 14.1.2. It is a ridiculously overpowered new M3 Pro Max that I bought a couple months ago after running out of disk space on my 5 year old Intel-based Mac. Maybe there is some incompatibility with the new hardware. Or maybe I simply am too stupid to make it work.

There still seems to be some communication problem between the plugin and the synth. Even though there is clearly 2 way comms happening (I can adjust settings on both the plugin and on the HW and observe/hear the changes at both sides), but ... I dunno. Loading a project with the saved patch simply doesn't work for me.

Curiously, I've tried it several times ... And now at step 3 in your notes, I click OK and I then play notes on my attached MIDI keyboard and they do not match the patch I was using moments ago. That step is now changing something for me. I suspect there is some mental disconnect I have in those saved settings and what the purpose is and what causes them to be loaded again.  Į\_(ツ)_/Į



Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2024, 09:01:23 AM »
Thank you for this information. I appreciate the explanation and walkthrough. I must be a complete moron, though, because it still does not work for me. I went through each step (I used a brand new project to try to eliminate conflicts with other plugins). I added an external track and chose the MIDI settings that talk to my Trigon-6. I added the Soundtower plugin. Chose a patch on the HW synth. Recorded some notes. Followed your well-written steps 1-6. Played the notes back to verify sounds were as expected. Saved the project, exited Logic Pro, changed the patch to something else on my Trigon, and then restarted Logic Pro. I clicked the plugin and it showed the correct patch name. But it did not play the saved patch; it played the one I had changed to while Logic Pro was closed. I twisted one of the attack knobs on the synth and verified it updated in the plugin view; so they are definitely talking to each other. But the plugin simply will not send the saved settings to my hardware.

I think I am using the latest version of Logic Pro (10.8.1). My Mac is on Sonoma 14.1.2. It is a ridiculously overpowered new M3 Pro Max that I bought a couple months ago after running out of disk space on my 5 year old Intel-based Mac. Maybe there is some incompatibility with the new hardware. Or maybe I simply am too stupid to make it work.

There still seems to be some communication problem between the plugin and the synth. Even though there is clearly 2 way comms happening (I can adjust settings on both the plugin and on the HW and observe/hear the changes at both sides), but ... I dunno. Loading a project with the saved patch simply doesn't work for me.

Curiously, I've tried it several times ... And now at step 3 in your notes, I click OK and I then play notes on my attached MIDI keyboard and they do not match the patch I was using moments ago. That step is now changing something for me. I suspect there is some mental disconnect I have in those saved settings and what the purpose is and what causes them to be loaded again.  Į\_(ツ)_/Į

Hi Mark.


That is odd. I am also on the same version of Logic and Mac OS and I use a Mac M1 Studio Ultra, so we are not miles apart.

Without sounding condescending. You have the midi parms set in the ST plugin for the synth and it connects to the synth automatically on logic startup?

I have attached an image of one of synth channels in logic. I use the external instrument and the SEControl version of the ST plugin (there is an instrument type and effect type). As you can see Im using the effect type. It keeps it all clean on one channel as external instrument already occupied the instrument slot.

Thanks and hope you get it working.

P.s. You are not stupid. Its taken me years to get my head around St software. The manuals do give a little away....But for me it's been trial and error to get it working.

On a side note: Have you played with the patch genetics and morpher on the Editors, they can be fun and produce some interesting results.

Jago





« Last Edit: January 09, 2024, 10:07:28 AM by Julienne Fractals »
Prophet X. Prophet 12 Module. Prophet 6 Module. Ob-6 Module. Trigon-6 Module. Eventide H9000R (x2). Tegeler Audio Schwerkraftmaschine / Raumzeitmaschine / Creme RC (x3). Bettermaker Mastering Limiter, Mastering EQ, Mastering Compressor. Avid S3.
Mac Studio. Logic.

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2024, 02:50:47 PM »
Though I'm interested in the SoundTower story, I'm wondering if the software is sufficiently OK for me to do the simple thing of quickly seeing what the parameters are for the factory presets :)

Or if there is a simple workaround. Maybe there is a doc or a set of screenshots somewhere.

Thx,
Joe

Re: Easiest way to view factory parameter settings?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2024, 06:22:41 PM »
Hehe - Yes we rather did hijack your thread/question. I think that the simple answer is that, yes the soundtower editor would work very well for showing the parameter settings. I don't know the limitations of the demo version, but I would think you could try that and see if it does what you need. The other alternative that I am aware of but have not tried is something called codeKnobs. The person who developed that is/was a regular on these forums at one point. I just now googled and see that it appears to be active. I am not familiar with it, but I do see it also has a demo version. https://codeknobs.com/products.php?id=12