Oscillator B Range

chysn

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Oscillator B Range
« on: December 21, 2023, 07:41:14 AM »
When Oscillator B's Keyboard setting is Off, its nine-octave range extends from D-flat-0 to C-9. Can anyone else please confirm?

I just wanted a second pair of eyes because it seems weird not to start at C-0.

I know my potentiometer is OK because it's sending NRPN value of 0 for this D-flat.
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2023, 12:39:09 PM »
When Oscillator B's Keyboard setting is Off, its nine-octave range extends from D-flat-0 to C-9. Can anyone else please confirm?

I just wanted a second pair of eyes because it seems weird not to start at C-0.

I know my potentiometer is OK because it's sending NRPN value of 0 for this D-flat.
Can’t remember off hand but I know there was a bug at once point which made the oscillator jump to Db instead of C as I reported.

LPF83

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2023, 01:53:30 PM »
When Oscillator B's Keyboard setting is Off, its nine-octave range extends from D-flat-0 to C-9. Can anyone else please confirm?

I just wanted a second pair of eyes because it seems weird not to start at C-0.

I know my potentiometer is OK because it's sending NRPN value of 0 for this D-flat.

Mine does same
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

chysn

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2023, 02:05:10 PM »
When Oscillator B's Keyboard setting is Off, its nine-octave range extends from D-flat-0 to C-9. Can anyone else please confirm?

I just wanted a second pair of eyes because it seems weird not to start at C-0.

I know my potentiometer is OK because it's sending NRPN value of 0 for this D-flat.
Can’t remember off hand but I know there was a bug at once point which made the oscillator jump to Db instead of C as I reported.

When you reported this, did Sequential confirm that it's a bug?

The oscillator isn't "jumping" to Db. The value of 0 is mapped to Db-0 when Keyboard is Off; and if it's a bug, it's off by one over the whole range. D-0 is 1, Eb-0 is 2, all the way up to C-9 is 107. These values are sent, received, displayed, and played using this range.

One would prefer 0 to be C-0 and 108 to be C-9. But if they were to "fix" this "bug" now, it would break all programs that use a fixed Osc B frequency.

Thanks for confirming!
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

LPF83

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2023, 02:44:53 PM »
First thing that came to my mind is that it may be intentionally mirroring the way OSC B worked on vintage units?

I think that in the case of reissues, known bugs / quirks of the original are often carried over to the reissue design, because without them the charm or specific character of the original could be affected.

Wonder if someone with a vintage P5 could chime in?

Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2023, 04:09:22 PM »
First thing that came to my mind is that it may be intentionally mirroring the way OSC B worked on vintage units?

I think that in the case of reissues, known bugs / quirks of the original are often carried over to the reissue design, because without them the charm or specific character of the original could be affected.

Wonder if someone with a vintage P5 could chime in?

Just moved my wife’s rev 3 into my studio. Managed to break a j-wire without even trying, but great to have the two synths in the same room. Will see if I can get the vintage unit to go low for you…

LPF83

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2023, 04:47:23 PM »
First thing that came to my mind is that it may be intentionally mirroring the way OSC B worked on vintage units?

I think that in the case of reissues, known bugs / quirks of the original are often carried over to the reissue design, because without them the charm or specific character of the original could be affected.

Wonder if someone with a vintage P5 could chime in?

Just moved my wife’s rev 3 into my studio. Managed to break a j-wire without even trying, but great to have the two synths in the same room. Will see if I can get the vintage unit to go low for you…

Thanks, that would be great!  I'm curious if the two digit display of the vintage P5 would represent the "Db0" in a different way, or if you would need a tuner?
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2023, 07:08:24 PM »
First thing that came to my mind is that it may be intentionally mirroring the way OSC B worked on vintage units?

I think that in the case of reissues, known bugs / quirks of the original are often carried over to the reissue design, because without them the charm or specific character of the original could be affected.

Wonder if someone with a vintage P5 could chime in?

Just moved my wife’s rev 3 into my studio. Managed to break a j-wire without even trying, but great to have the two synths in the same room. Will see if I can get the vintage unit to go low for you…

Thanks, that would be great!  I'm curious if the two digit display of the vintage P5 would represent the "Db0" in a different way, or if you would need a tuner?

If I'm doing this as I think I'm meant to, I'm getting the rev 3 P5 hitting a low B with the Keyboard button switched off. I don't know my numbers, seems, but if the Db you're getting is Db0, I'm guessing the B I'm hearing is B1...

LPF83

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2023, 04:45:20 AM »
First thing that came to my mind is that it may be intentionally mirroring the way OSC B worked on vintage units?

I think that in the case of reissues, known bugs / quirks of the original are often carried over to the reissue design, because without them the charm or specific character of the original could be affected.

Wonder if someone with a vintage P5 could chime in?

Just moved my wife’s rev 3 into my studio. Managed to break a j-wire without even trying, but great to have the two synths in the same room. Will see if I can get the vintage unit to go low for you…

Thanks, that would be great!  I'm curious if the two digit display of the vintage P5 would represent the "Db0" in a different way, or if you would need a tuner?

If I'm doing this as I think I'm meant to, I'm getting the rev 3 P5 hitting a low B with the Keyboard button switched off. I don't know my numbers, seems, but if the Db you're getting is Db0, I'm guessing the B I'm hearing is B1...

Interesting..  I guess what that means is just that the range with the Keyboard off is intended mainly for LFO frequency, for which the lowest and highest value notes don't matter a great deal as long as the recalled patch sounds the same every time its loaded... but I can see how that could make certain patches from a vintage unit loaded to a newer one sound slightly different.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

chysn

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2023, 06:43:13 AM »
Yeah, that is interesting. And I guess it's okay. @Manbird, thanks for hauling the old girl out. Everyone else, thanks for the ideas.

I downloaded the Soundtower demo to see how they handled Osc B. And, of course, they don't. They don't account for a difference in range at all when Keyboard is turned off. They also limit most of the parameters to 120, meaning that they relied on the (incorrect) documentation rather than using an actual Prophet-5 to write their software.

My plan is to release my software (on cartridge!) accounting for this parameter as it actually behaves, and not as it may or may not have been designed. I doubt Sequential will adjust it at this point. And if they do, I'll just have to re-burn the EEPROMs!

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 06:46:26 AM by chysn »
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2023, 06:47:27 AM »
When Oscillator B's Keyboard setting is Off, its nine-octave range extends from D-flat-0 to C-9. Can anyone else please confirm?

I just wanted a second pair of eyes because it seems weird not to start at C-0.

I know my potentiometer is OK because it's sending NRPN value of 0 for this D-flat.
Can’t remember off hand but I know there was a bug at once point which made the oscillator jump to Db instead of C as I reported.

When you reported this, did Sequential confirm that it's a bug?

The oscillator isn't "jumping" to Db. The value of 0 is mapped to Db-0 when Keyboard is Off; and if it's a bug, it's off by one over the whole range. D-0 is 1, Eb-0 is 2, all the way up to C-9 is 107. These values are sent, received, displayed, and played using this range.

One would prefer 0 to be C-0 and 108 to be C-9. But if they were to "fix" this "bug" now, it would break all programs that use a fixed Osc B frequency.

Thanks for confirming!

The (confirmed) bug I reported was I think when the oscillator was still in key track mode; it would sometime be a semitone too high at its lowest setting. I think that was fixed in one of the panel firmware updates though.

chysn

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Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2023, 07:01:43 AM »
The (confirmed) bug I reported was I think when the oscillator was still in key track mode; it would sometime be a semitone too high at its lowest setting. I think that was fixed in one of the panel firmware updates though.

Ah! Okay, yeah, that would be annoying. It sort of seems like some of the same code is in play, because the pitch is, in fact, one semitone higher than the numeric value would suggest.
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

Re: Oscillator B Range
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2023, 08:18:58 AM »
The (confirmed) bug I reported was I think when the oscillator was still in key track mode; it would sometime be a semitone too high at its lowest setting. I think that was fixed in one of the panel firmware updates though.

Ah! Okay, yeah, that would be annoying. It sort of seems like some of the same code is in play, because the pitch is, in fact, one semitone higher than the numeric value would suggest.

Hmm, I wonder if they fixed it in normal mode but overlooked it elsewhere. Might be worth raising a ticket to get a definitive answer.