Workflow for Recording MIDI (Reaper)

[explodingPSYCH]

I'm curious what everyone's workflow is for recording MIDI with the Rev4.

Use of the Sound Tower Editor requires NRPN. However, this records any knob movements in a way that is impractical to edit or work with. I've attempted to route the MIDI notes that are output from the Sound Tower VST editor (the output of the editor does not send knob movement data), but unfortunately this causes a long delay and a MIDI echo back to the P10 (even with record monitoring off).

Ideally I'd like to be able to record my performance while excluding any knob adjustments I might make, then easily play the MIDI back, triggering the Prophet 5. This has proven awkward so far.

[558]

I'm curious what everyone's workflow is for recording MIDI with the Rev4.

Use of the Sound Tower Editor requires NRPN. However, this records any knob movements in a way that is impractical to edit or work with. I've attempted to route the MIDI notes that are output from the Sound Tower VST editor (the output of the editor does not send knob movement data), but unfortunately this causes a long delay and a MIDI echo back to the P10 (even with record monitoring off).

Ideally I'd like to be able to record my performance while excluding any knob adjustments I might make, then easily play the MIDI back, triggering the Prophet 5. This has proven awkward so far.

I don't use the sound tower program.  I just record the MIDI and also about 100 other MIDI routings as I go in S1.  Of course Reaper would be fine for that too.  I just prefer Studio One.  Just what are you using the Sound Tower Program for?  Is this absolutely necessary to your Prophet experience?  Though I tried the SoundTower program, I didn't get it.  If you look at my other post I just made, in the adjacent thread (Talking about the 6th post in this thread: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,7263.0.html) --I detailed how I would if I wanted to , send different programs banks and groups (or entire USr) to the synth.  I never messed with that NRPN version of MIDI I need my midi recorded It is the only way I ever played with it all I need my prophet into things, like my Advanced Scene Switcher.  I can't conceive of how NRPN would be worth it for me.  I will be hated possibly for being anti sales, with this idea, but it's not particularly cheap though it could be done free, but at least I don't gotta use a mouse to send these sysex to the synth.

[explodingPSYCH]

I don't use the sound tower program.  I just record the MIDI and also about 100 other MIDI routings as I go in S1.  Of course Reaper would be fine for that too.  I just prefer Studio One.  Just what are you using the Sound Tower Program for?  Is this absolutely necessary to your Prophet experience?  Though I tried the SoundTower program, I didn't get it.  If you look at my other post I just made, in the adjacent thread (Talking about the 6th post in this thread: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,7263.0.html) --I detailed how I would if I wanted to , send different programs banks and groups (or entire USr) to the synth.  I never messed with that NRPN version of MIDI I need my midi recorded It is the only way I ever played with it all I need my prophet into things, like my Advanced Scene Switcher.  I can't conceive of how NRPN would be worth it for me.  I will be hated possibly for being anti sales, with this idea, but it's not particularly cheap though it could be done free, but at least I don't gotta use a mouse to send these sysex to the synth.

There might be a language barrier here, as I don't fully understand what you're saying. From your other post it sounds like you're using sysex and the MIDI extension for Streamdeck. I actually use two Streamdecks in my set up already (one for controlling Reaper via custom Keyboard Shortcut Comands, and one for sending MIDI note data to a digital mixer for bus selection). I'd be curious to see an illustration of your workflow. 

My reasoning for using the Sound Tower VST is to have access to the following:
1.) A fast and visual way to rename and reorder patches on the P10 hardware. Given the P10's way of dealing with presets with splits/stacks, I definitely want to be able to quickly move and organize patches being pointed to as the B layer. I'm still waiting to hear back from Sound Tower or any users here about how to do this, though I'm not optimistic based on my first reading of the manual.

I can't fully picture how your workflow would work, but I would like to be able to quickly take a patch I'm working on, duplicate it, rename in, place it in a location on the synth, and then ensure that whatever patch I replaced could be easily put elsewhere on the synth.

2.) Reaper has an option for allowing any VST parameter to have it's own LFO. This means lots of additional modulation via MIDI for the P10.

In regards to NRPN vs CC:
Unfortunately the response from Brian @ Sequential wasn't definitive. He said that the NRPN resolution is similar to CC for the P5/10 for historical accuracy (but then suggested that I compare all the CC/NRPN resolution using a MIDI monitor, which would imply there may be some different to discover with enough work.)

If the resolution is similar, using CC would be fine, but I'd still like to have a VST that will have those CC parameters (so they can be modulated via Reapers parameter LFO). Perhaps using MidiQuest? (but I have still had no luck running the program on Windows 10)

The other issue I'm running into is that I often don't want to record knob movement while recording MIDI. This is generally the way VSTs work, and I usually prefer it. The Sound Tower plugin seems to block the knob movement if you take the MIDI from it's output and route it to a new track, but it causes other MIDI issues (echo and a significant lag, which I'm reaching out to Sound Tower about).

EDIT: After reviewing the MIDI implementation PDF, there is no resolution increase with NRPN. All values are within 0-127 range (or less as per CC). The only parameters not included in CC are global functions. 

[558]

There might be a language barrier here, as I don't fully understand what you're saying. From your other post it sounds like you're using sysex and the MIDI extension for Streamdeck. I actually use two Streamdecks in my set up already (one for controlling Reaper via custom Keyboard Shortcut Comands, and one for sending MIDI note data to a digital mixer for bus selection). I'd be curious to see an illustration of your workflow. 

My reasoning for using the Sound Tower VST is to have access to the following:
1.) A fast and visual way to rename and reorder patches on the P10 hardware. Given the P10's way of dealing with presets with splits/stacks, I definitely want to be able to quickly move and organize patches being pointed to as the B layer. I'm still waiting to hear back from Sound Tower or any users here about how to do this, though I'm not optimistic based on my first reading of the manual.

I can't fully picture how your workflow would work, but I would like to be able to quickly take a patch I'm working on, duplicate it, rename in, place it in a location on the synth, and then ensure that whatever patch I replaced could be easily put elsewhere on the synth.

2.) Reaper has an option for allowing any VST parameter to have it's own LFO. This means lots of additional modulation via MIDI for the P10.

In regards to NRPN vs CC:
Unfortunately the response from Brian @ Sequential wasn't definitive. He said that the NRPN resolution is similar to CC for the P5/10 for historical accuracy (but then suggested that I compare all the CC/NRPN resolution using a MIDI monitor, which would imply there may be some different to discover with enough work.)

If the resolution is similar, using CC would be fine, but I'd still like to have a VST that will have those CC parameters (so they can be modulated via Reapers parameter LFO). Perhaps using MidiQuest? (but I have still had no luck running the program on Windows 10)

The other issue I'm running into is that I often don't want to record knob movement while recording MIDI. This is generally the way VSTs work, and I usually prefer it. The Sound Tower plugin seems to block the knob movement if you take the MIDI from it's output and route it to a new track, but it causes other MIDI issues (echo and a significant lag, which I'm reaching out to Sound Tower about).

EDIT: After reviewing the MIDI implementation PDF, there is no resolution increase with NRPN. All values are within 0-127 range (or less as per CC). The only parameters not included in CC are global functions.

I don't know about "quickly" renaming anything coming in via MIDI OX typically it is just something I do after a long session where I have made many programs. 

So on my 2nd read of your OP, I can see now what you are trying to do, better.  I thought you wanted to send the programs and banks using the SoundTower.  I see now you are trying to filter out some midi.  You can usually just set the input to filtering out any CC.

It's a good idea,   I will see what I can find about this in Reaper also I have that easily accessible there on my desktop. I will try to look into this. 

[558]

I'm curious what everyone's workflow is for recording MIDI with the Rev4.

Use of the Sound Tower Editor requires NRPN. However, this records any knob movements in a way that is impractical to edit or work with. I've attempted to route the MIDI notes that are output from the Sound Tower VST editor (the output of the editor does not send knob movement data), but unfortunately this causes a long delay and a MIDI echo back to the P10 (even with record monitoring off).

Ideally I'd like to be able to record my performance while excluding any knob adjustments I might make, then easily play the MIDI back, triggering the Prophet 5. This has proven awkward so far.

Using a Windows computer?  I am aware of the limitations in Windows regarding the input from the Prophet only being available in one app at a time.  This is a bad limitation seen all too often in every new synth since Windows introduced its awful 'class compliance' to enable device manufacturers to slack off on making decent USB drivers for their devices.  You can still find decent USB drivers for Yamaha keyboards and other vintage devices (such as my Oxygen 8 II from a pawn shop, which was from about 2008 I think).  This will always cause problems with devices anymore.  I always imagine that Apple doesn't have this issue, since they have the reliable and decent "core MIDI" API ( I have only a little experience with my apple iPhone 5s which grabs MIDI from bluetooth very well without any special inbetween app you need in Windows like MIDIberry or WindSynthberry).

2.) Reaper has an option for allowing any VST parameter to have it's own LFO. This means lots of additional modulation via MIDI for the P10.

If the resolution is similar, using CC would be fine, but I'd still like to have a VST that will have those CC parameters (so they can be modulated via Reapers parameter LFO). Perhaps using MidiQuest? (but I have still had no luck running the program on Windows 10)

The other issue I'm running into is that I often don't want to record knob movement while recording MIDI. This is generally the way VSTs work, and I usually prefer it. The Sound Tower plugin seems to block the knob movement if you take the MIDI from it's output and route it to a new track, but it causes other MIDI issues (echo and a significant lag, which I'm reaching out to Sound Tower about).

Sounds like you are seeking a catch all.  One program that does everything at once and in real time.  Save, and send and replace and rearrange record with CC, record without CC.  That is why I suggested using the MIDI sysex operation on a stream deck button.  Have you seen a typical 159 character program sysex block as it is displayed in the MIDI OX display window?  Just cut it and paste it into the sysex send field of one of your stream deck buttons, (after saving it using globals row 1 6 globals row 2 7 and record into the MIDI OX sysex view / recieve sysex dump waiting on USB at your computer).  The Sysex will be sent to the Prophet, all at once changing the Prophet's program it is set to, the program saved to that number (bank or group or USr are optional there is no limit to the size of a sysex block you can put into the Stream Deck's button for sysex). 

I don't use the SoundTower so I am not proficient in that use.  However I am using Studio One which quickly and easily filters out any CC to a track.  I would rather than take your midi directly into SoundTower, take the MIDI into Studio One creating several different MIDI inputs (called MIDI keyboard in external devices dialog on the "Home" screen in S1) there you can filter out CC from one 'keyboard' (or midi in) (you can call that keyboard "Prophet CC filtered") and just have the direct entire Prophet input as a different keyboard.  You set up a track to record either and you get just what you want, and send it out via a Loop Midi or a Network MIDI.  I know already that these two little programs (by Tobias Erichsen) will send any MIDI and include any CC across network or internally on the computer and can be picked up in as many concurrent apps as you want. 
 
I use the Network MIDI to send the Prophet and a separate controller I control it with, via a single Network MIDI, so I can read these out of my Advanced Scene Switcher via its fairly newly added MIDI Macro option.  I have this set up to read out any setting I change, and any Program change (User or Factory) in my video as I record it.  While I don't have currently uploaded any video showing this as I delete my videos on social media within a few months so they don't occupy space on servers of someone else.  You can check out my great Advanced Scene Switcher setup in OBS, to see how I have gotten the OBS to display any CC I make by its setting name, and any program User or Factory that I dial in.  It's pretty cool. https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,7219.msg64806.html#msg64806

I haven't included the most recent version of my scene switcher it is pretty hard to edit out all the computer specific references I made.  I wonder if anyone else will ever make anything quite as good for showing what prophet settings are changed while the video is recording.  It's quite a long set of Macros by now.