Moog Layoffs


LPF83

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2023, 03:08:02 PM »
https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/inmusic-has-fired-a-large-portion-of-the-moog-staff-a-sad-day-for-synth-industry.html?fbclid=IwAR2mzAlnQIGQ0NLSPHS_urPRE-kpBJ9BCHjCsSo0WdWX5MHTUG9mtKmmOSM_aem_AfaJiwvQ361IVNNnKd56L7g72pqhVb1TwNiEcvTRQOt3G4etjADziYhrESeWhKq9Rb8

As depressing as it is unsurprising.

I can totally see how just-laid-off-employees might be hanging around grumbling about what they see as poorer future quality and what not; even I am somewhat bummed for them at a sentiment level.  I have worked in tech companies that were bought out, divisions shut down or pay cuts etc. and it is never a fun day to get called into that room and delivered the news.

But I've heard/seen video of multiple cases where the recent Model D reissue was shipping with defects that were serious enough the unit had to be sent to Moog.  I saw a video of one guy who bought from Sweetwater explaining that the open box was only so the Sweetwater QA technician could inspect the product prior to shipping.  I've never known Sweetwater do that with other gear (even expensive gear like Prophet 10 or OB-X8 which I ordered from them), which indicates to me they were having enough quality issues on arrival that they felt the need to intervene.

I don't like to see North American manufacturing being sent overseas any more than anyone else, but I very rarely hear complaints about the quality of Akai gear on arrival, and that's another inMusic company that manufactures in Asia.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

chysn

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2023, 06:53:18 PM »
An unfortunate development for my second-favorite Asheville synth company.
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2023, 02:04:00 AM »
https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/inmusic-has-fired-a-large-portion-of-the-moog-staff-a-sad-day-for-synth-industry.html?fbclid=IwAR2mzAlnQIGQ0NLSPHS_urPRE-kpBJ9BCHjCsSo0WdWX5MHTUG9mtKmmOSM_aem_AfaJiwvQ361IVNNnKd56L7g72pqhVb1TwNiEcvTRQOt3G4etjADziYhrESeWhKq9Rb8

As depressing as it is unsurprising.

I can totally see how just-laid-off-employees might be hanging around grumbling about what they see as poorer future quality and what not; even I am somewhat bummed for them at a sentiment level.  I have worked in tech companies that were bought out, divisions shut down or pay cuts etc. and it is never a fun day to get called into that room and delivered the news.

But I've heard/seen video of multiple cases where the recent Model D reissue was shipping with defects that were serious enough the unit had to be sent to Moog.  I saw a video of one guy who bought from Sweetwater explaining that the open box was only so the Sweetwater QA technician could inspect the product prior to shipping.  I've never known Sweetwater do that with other gear (even expensive gear like Prophet 10 or OB-X8 which I ordered from them), which indicates to me they were having enough quality issues on arrival that they felt the need to intervene.

I don't like to see North American manufacturing being sent overseas any more than anyone else, but I very rarely hear complaints about the quality of Akai gear on arrival, and that's another inMusic company that manufactures in Asia.

Oh I guess that’s ok then

As if this is anything to do with quality issues and not solely about money

Terrible and sad news

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2023, 04:02:09 AM »
https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/inmusic-has-fired-a-large-portion-of-the-moog-staff-a-sad-day-for-synth-industry.html?fbclid=IwAR2mzAlnQIGQ0NLSPHS_urPRE-kpBJ9BCHjCsSo0WdWX5MHTUG9mtKmmOSM_aem_AfaJiwvQ361IVNNnKd56L7g72pqhVb1TwNiEcvTRQOt3G4etjADziYhrESeWhKq9Rb8

As depressing as it is unsurprising.

I can totally see how just-laid-off-employees might be hanging around grumbling about what they see as poorer future quality and what not; even I am somewhat bummed for them at a sentiment level.  I have worked in tech companies that were bought out, divisions shut down or pay cuts etc. and it is never a fun day to get called into that room and delivered the news.

But I've heard/seen video of multiple cases where the recent Model D reissue was shipping with defects that were serious enough the unit had to be sent to Moog.  I saw a video of one guy who bought from Sweetwater explaining that the open box was only so the Sweetwater QA technician could inspect the product prior to shipping.  I've never known Sweetwater do that with other gear (even expensive gear like Prophet 10 or OB-X8 which I ordered from them), which indicates to me they were having enough quality issues on arrival that they felt the need to intervene.

I don't like to see North American manufacturing being sent overseas any more than anyone else, but I very rarely hear complaints about the quality of Akai gear on arrival, and that's another inMusic company that manufactures in Asia.

The one I ordered arrived with multiple issues and had to be sent back. It was due to be sent back to me but I found a way better price elsewhere so chose not to keep it. It would still have had the incorrect aftertouch resistor anyway as it turns out. Remains to be seen whether I made the right choice as it’s been over six months of waiting for the second one and now this news puts future manufacturing in a precarious position. Guess I might never get it after all, which would be sad as it’s the one synth I’ve always wanted.

LPF83

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2023, 04:45:56 AM »
https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/inmusic-has-fired-a-large-portion-of-the-moog-staff-a-sad-day-for-synth-industry.html?fbclid=IwAR2mzAlnQIGQ0NLSPHS_urPRE-kpBJ9BCHjCsSo0WdWX5MHTUG9mtKmmOSM_aem_AfaJiwvQ361IVNNnKd56L7g72pqhVb1TwNiEcvTRQOt3G4etjADziYhrESeWhKq9Rb8

As depressing as it is unsurprising.

I can totally see how just-laid-off-employees might be hanging around grumbling about what they see as poorer future quality and what not; even I am somewhat bummed for them at a sentiment level.  I have worked in tech companies that were bought out, divisions shut down or pay cuts etc. and it is never a fun day to get called into that room and delivered the news.

But I've heard/seen video of multiple cases where the recent Model D reissue was shipping with defects that were serious enough the unit had to be sent to Moog.  I saw a video of one guy who bought from Sweetwater explaining that the open box was only so the Sweetwater QA technician could inspect the product prior to shipping.  I've never known Sweetwater do that with other gear (even expensive gear like Prophet 10 or OB-X8 which I ordered from them), which indicates to me they were having enough quality issues on arrival that they felt the need to intervene.

I don't like to see North American manufacturing being sent overseas any more than anyone else, but I very rarely hear complaints about the quality of Akai gear on arrival, and that's another inMusic company that manufactures in Asia.

Oh I guess that’s ok then

As if this is anything to do with quality issues and not solely about money

Terrible and sad news

No need for snark, I'm fairly sure we can compare our opinions maturely. 

As indicated, I think it's unfortunate and I do sympathize with the employees who lost their jobs, and I do wish them the best.  I was commenting on the fact that the post indicated that the Moogs currently made in Asheville were of the highest quality and that manufacturing quality would necessarily tank when moved to Asia.  My point is that it's just not that simple, their flagship products have had a history of quality issues, and it hasn't been the same Moog that it was when Bob Moog was alive in a quite long time.  Nothing more should be read into my post than that.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2023, 10:59:08 AM »
Honestly, I feel that this is more a case of “Moog Screwed Moog.” Than anything else. The company was seriously lacking consistent innovation. While I appreciate the barebones and raw mono synths they were coming out with, we had synths from Sequential, Korg and Arturia that were trying new things in the analog realm. Moog could have easily sone a four voice poly synth based on the Sub 37...but they didn’t. They could have started to incorporate digital effects...but they didn’t. Not until they did the unobtainable Moog One. Then followed it up with....the Grandmother. Meanwhile we have Arturia doing morphing analog synthesizers. The problem is Moog put more effort in political discussions rather than synth discussions. “We are discontinuing the Moogerfoger pedals....BUT you’ll be happy to know we are doing a show with absolutely no male performers! Yay!”

jg666

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2023, 12:09:16 PM »
Honestly, I feel that this is more a case of “Moog Screwed Moog.” Than anything else. The company was seriously lacking consistent innovation. While I appreciate the barebones and raw mono synths they were coming out with, we had synths from Sequential, Korg and Arturia that were trying new things in the analog realm. Moog could have easily sone a four voice poly synth based on the Sub 37...but they didn’t. They could have started to incorporate digital effects...but they didn’t. Not until they did the unobtainable Moog One. Then followed it up with....the Grandmother. Meanwhile we have Arturia doing morphing analog synthesizers. The problem is Moog put more effort in political discussions rather than synth discussions. “We are discontinuing the Moogerfoger pedals....BUT you’ll be happy to know we are doing a show with absolutely no male performers! Yay!”

I think that just about sums up my thoughts as well.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Shaw

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2023, 09:51:48 PM »
Didn’t Moog workers just unionize???  I thought that meant their jobs were guaranteed forever??? (Read this with as much Sarcasm as you can muster)

Seriously though, I do agree with the general sentiments above and think that their apparent downturn has been a combination of A) the inMusic acquisition, B) lack of innovation of normal market price points*, and C) unionization.

* The Moog One was highly innovative. I loved mine.  But they definitely should have produced a little, scaled-down, 5 or 6 voice cousin in the $3,000 range. Such a product would have kept Moog in the green for years. 

"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Old VCOs, Older Filters, some LFOs & Envelopes | Suhr | Mayones | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

jg666

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2023, 12:31:39 AM »
Indeed yes. The Moog One was something many people lusted after but could not afford or justify that amount. If, like you say, they had produced a scaled down version, many hobbyists like myself would have bought one.

I would probably have bought a Matriarch if only it had come with accompanying software so that you can see what all the settings are and change them. I know you can change settings on the keyboard itself but there was no way of knowing what everything is set to.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2023, 01:25:59 PM »
Didn’t Moog workers just unionize???  I thought that meant their jobs were guaranteed forever??? (Read this with as much Sarcasm as you can muster)

Seriously though, I do agree with the general sentiments above and think that their apparent downturn has been a combination of A) the inMusic acquisition, B) lack of innovation of normal market price points*, and C) unionization.

* The Moog One was highly innovative. I loved mine.  But they definitely should have produced a little, scaled-down, 5 or 6 voice cousin in the $3,000 range. Such a product would have kept Moog in the green for years.

The fact that Moog Ones had to be shipped back to their factory to repair tuning issues is absolutely unacceptable for a product at such a price point.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 01:47:57 PM by LoboLives »

LPF83

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2023, 04:33:00 PM »
On the subject of Moog, I saw a recent article that seems to indicate some Moog products, including the Model D will continue to be made in USA.  But that may just be a form of posturing to add lube and introduce the new reality gradually.  I don't know.

But even more recently, I learned that manufacturing of the Oberheim Xpander started in the USA and was later sent to Japan.  Image below shows the difference can be spotted quickly by the positioning of the white labeling around the outputs (above vs below).  Then of course there's the serial number plate but that would be cheating :)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FMBJEkaC8Lw/Rp0MHgO0RHI/AAAAAAAAGVg/KfyAENbYum8/s1600-h/xp1.jpg

Ironically, all these decades later, Japanese engineering/manufacturing is typically associated with very high quality.  To the point that US manufacturers have been trying play catch up with techniques like Six Sigma and TQM to mimick what the Japanese did for decades now.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2023, 05:29:14 PM »
I’m intrigued by the bit they posted about putting the finishing touches to a new innovative product. Wonder what that is. Also seems weird timing if they’ve just sacked a bunch of people.

Shaw

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2023, 07:34:41 PM »
seems weird timing if they’ve just sacked a bunch of people.

That was the finishing touches to which they referred…
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Old VCOs, Older Filters, some LFOs & Envelopes | Suhr | Mayones | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

jg666

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2023, 03:10:49 AM »
For people who are worried about quality dropping if manufacturing is moved to the far East, let’s not forget that most Apple products are made in the far East and it doesn’t seem to be an issue for the millions of Apple fans and users :)
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2023, 02:34:18 PM »
For people who are worried about quality dropping if manufacturing is moved to the far East, let’s not forget that most Apple products are made in the far East and it doesn’t seem to be an issue for the millions of Apple fans and users :)

Just because something has millions of customers and fans doesn’t automatically equate quality.

jg666

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2023, 03:23:33 PM »
For people who are worried about quality dropping if manufacturing is moved to the far East, let’s not forget that most Apple products are made in the far East and it doesn’t seem to be an issue for the millions of Apple fans and users :)

Just because something has millions of customers and fans doesn’t automatically equate quality.

Indeed :)
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Shaw

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2023, 07:12:28 PM »
For people who are worried about quality dropping if manufacturing is moved to the far East, let’s not forget that most Apple products are made in the far East and it doesn’t seem to be an issue for the millions of Apple fans and users :)

Just because something has millions of customers and fans doesn’t automatically equate quality.

You also can’t compare Moog to Apple. 
Apple the financial clout to demand a certain level of workforce competency no matter where they go.  Moog (inMusic) simply doesn’t.

That said, if Moog manufacturing were moved to Japan or South Korea, that could be great for the quality of Moog products (perhaps even an improvement over US production).  Employees there are more concerned with keeping their jobs by doing the best work possible instead of other frivolities (pronouns, unions, dress code disputes, etc.).  If Moog manufacturing goes to China, the quality will likely be somewhere in the vicinity of M-Audio, Alesis or Akan (other inMusic brands).
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Old VCOs, Older Filters, some LFOs & Envelopes | Suhr | Mayones | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

swid

Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2023, 08:09:31 PM »
Employees there are more concerned with keeping their jobs by doing the best work possible instead of other frivolities (pronouns, unions, dress code disputes, etc.).

So you’re framing not being able to focus on human rights or things like basic health care for fear of losing one’s livelihood as a good thing? Wild.

Shaw

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Re: Moog Layoffs
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2023, 09:53:49 AM »
Employees there are more concerned with keeping their jobs by doing the best work possible instead of other frivolities (pronouns, unions, dress code disputes, etc.).

So you’re framing not being able to focus on human rights or things like basic health care for fear of losing one’s livelihood as a good thing? Wild.

Thanks for attributing words to me that I didn't say.

I specifically enumerated "pronouns, unions, dress code disputes".... I never mentioned "human rights or things like basic health care".

But since you brought it up... access to health care as a human right is under the purview of the government.  Not private enterprise. I have no idea what Moog's compensation package entailed, but Moog was under no obligation to provide health care.   And yes, it's access to health care, not health care itself.  If it were the other way around, you could walk into a hospital and demand free services as a "human right".

Unionization isn't a human right.

I was only joking about pronouns and pink hair, but if you harbor any doubt, those aren't human rights either.

Moog was a commercial enterprise.  Their only real obligation was to produce a profit for the owners / shareholders.  The evidence of that being their real obligation is that the moment a company fails to do so, they risk bankruptcy and the cessation of their business... anything other than a negative balance sheet, and business continues.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2023, 10:22:30 AM by chysn »
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Old VCOs, Older Filters, some LFOs & Envelopes | Suhr | Mayones | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |