Roland System 8 plug Out

[BobTheDog]

Hopefully they will do a module version as well, the system 1m is a great bit of kit, the plugouts sound really good.

I would definitely get an 8m

[Sacred Synthesis]

It would be nice if someone could upload a couple of dryer sounds, i.e. without effects here and there.

Apparently, these are the days of synthesizers and factory programs that are drowned in onboard affects.  Reverb, delay, and distortion - yes - but also the nearly constant use of stereo chorus, which gives the impression that a synthesizer is much warmer than it really is.  But for those who like it this way, I'd say the System 8 will be a winner.  On the merely sensational level, its sounds do impress.

Personally, I wouldn't want a synthesizer that needed chorus to make a warm string patch or other pads, so I'm not the slightest bit interested in the System 8.  Besides, these "cool" new designs make the instruments look like they belong in a research laboratory, rather than a music room, studio, or stage.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

Besides, these "cool" new designs make the instruments look like they belong in a research laboratory, rather than a music room, studio, or stage.

Yes, you would not want all those green LED's in your face 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in the studio. :-)

[Paul Dither]

I couldn't believe my eyes, though, when I read that the keyboard doesn't feature aftertouch.

...probably with a nod toward its longevity - the JD-Xa keybed, which it is reportedly similar to, is absolutely dismal for a modern performance instrument. (I'm seriously thinking about scooping a beater up off eBay at some point and desktop-ing the thing; if I'm feeling ambitious, maybe re-house the analogue brain into something else.)

True, the JD-Xa keyboard is really, really bad. It makes the Prophet-6 keyboard feel like a $10,000 keyboard and gives the overall impression that the JD-Xa should be exclusively sold at Walmart when it comes to its overall built quality, or rather the use of this cheap glossy front panel.

[Paul Dither]

Apparently, these are the days of synthesizers and factory programs that are drowned in onboard affects.  Reverb, delay, and distortion - yes - but also the nearly constant use of stereo chorus, which gives the impression that a synthesizer is much warmer than it really is.  But for those who like it this way, I'd say the System 8 will be a winner.  On the merely sensational level, its sounds do impress.

Which is absolutely okay. Point is that it still makes you curious about how well they pinned down the sound without all of the extras, which I don't even mean in a conservative way, because effects are and have always been an integral part of any electronic sound.

Personally, I wouldn't want a synthesizer that needed chorus to make a warm string patch or other pads, so I'm not the slightest bit interested in the System 8.  Besides, these "cool" new designs make the instruments look like they belong in a research laboratory, rather than a music room, studio, or stage.

Well, you don't know how much it actually "needs" a chorus unless you hear it dry. I would assume that only the Juno-106 plug-out is really in need of a chorus to get anywhere, but then I also think that it was one of the most mediocre synths ever - even worse than the Juno-6 or 60, the latter of which I always perceived to be more of a one-trick pony in the poly synth domain than the Minitaur could ever be in the mono synth domain.

I'm all for synths looking like a laboratory though. Isn't that where they originate from?

[Sacred Synthesis]

Besides, these "cool" new designs make the instruments look like they belong in a research laboratory, rather than a music room, studio, or stage.

Yes, you would not want all those green LED's in your face 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in the studio. :-)

I have a difficult enough time with the Evolvers.  The walls of my music room actually pulsate with the back panel LFO lights.  It's a free light show.

[Sacred Synthesis]

True, the JD-Xa keyboard is really, really bad. It makes the Prophet-6 keyboard feel like a $10,000 keyboard and gives the overall impression that the JD-Xa should be exclusively sold at Walmart when it comes to its overall built quality, or rather the use of this cheap glossy front panel.

Ah, I didn't know that.  Handy information.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm all for synths looking like a laboratory though. Isn't that where they originate from?

I was obviously expressing only an opinion.  I wouldn't want my music room or even a stage to look like a laboratory, any more than I would walk around the house or perform wearing a white smock.  I want a musical instrument to look like a piece of modest art, because that's what I'm going to make with it.  That's why I like wood end cheeks, which have anything but the laboratory appearance.  And lights are useful on an instrument, but I would prefer that they be both practically and tastefully allocated.  Again, the Evolver's lights are as much as one can bear, but at least they're of more natural tones of red and blue, rather than the System 8's fluorescent lime green.  Something tells me they'd be difficult to endure for long after a large meal.

Summed up, I would like a synthesizer to look just the way Dave Smith's instruments look.  All the DSI Prophets look ideal to me.

[Paul Dither]

True, the JD-Xa keyboard is really, really bad. It makes the Prophet-6 keyboard feel like a $10,000 keyboard and gives the overall impression that the JD-Xa should be exclusively sold at Walmart when it comes to its overall built quality, or rather the use of this cheap glossy front panel.

Ah, I didn't know that.  Handy information.

Someone measured the length of the System-8's keys' depth and it's about 13 cm while the usual depth for full-sized keys is about 14 cm. So I would assume that the System-8 has the same keyboard as the JD-Xa. Nord Leads have also pretty crappy keyboards that feel a bit shorter in depth. Some people are fine with those, but for me personally they're a no-go, especially because of their cheap feel.

[DavidDever]

True, the JD-Xa keyboard is really, really bad. It makes the Prophet-6 keyboard feel like a $10,000 keyboard and gives the overall impression that the JD-Xa should be exclusively sold at Walmart when it comes to its overall built quality, or rather the use of this cheap glossy front panel.

Ah, I didn't know that.  Handy information.

Someone measured the length of the System-8's keys' depth and it's about 13 cm while the usual depth for full-sized keys is about 14 cm. So I would assume that the System-8 has the same keyboard as the JD-Xa. Nord Leads have also pretty crappy keyboards that feel a bit shorter in depth. Some people are fine with those, but for me personally they're a no-go, especially because of their cheap feel.

The bigger issue is not the throw at the outer edge of the key, but the behavior at the inside edge of the key.

On an acoustic piano or tracker organ, the fulcrum length is quite long, and the pivot is nearly horizontal to the top of the key, so there is greater vertical deflection at the inside edge; for premium synth-action keys such as the FATAR TP-8S, the pivot lies at an angle to the top of the key, so the key deflects down and slightly forward (Ensoniq got around this effect by rounding the inside edge of the sharps).

Cheaper synth-action keybeds have very little deflection at the inside edge, which forces you to play closer to the outside edge; if the key top length is further shortened (as they've done with the JD-Xa), the fulcrum is quite short, and the response feels spongey.

(By comparison, the V-Synth keybed feels quite nice, so it can be said that Roland is doing this for cost purposes only.)

[Paul Dither]

The bigger issue is not the throw at the outer edge of the key, but the behavior at the inside edge of the key.

On an acoustic piano or tracker organ, the fulcrum length is quite long, and the pivot is nearly horizontal to the top of the key, so there is greater vertical deflection at the inside edge; for premium synth-action keys such as the FATAR TP-8S, the pivot lies at an angle to the top of the key, so the key deflects down and slightly forward (Ensoniq got around this effect by rounding the inside edge of the sharps).

Cheaper synth-action keybeds have very little deflection at the inside edge, which forces you to play closer to the outside edge; if the key top length is further shortened (as they've done with the JD-Xa), the fulcrum is quite short, and the response feels spongey.

(By comparison, the V-Synth keybed feels quite nice, so it can be said that Roland is doing this for cost purposes only.)

True about the action. And yes, the shorter size on the outside makes the response even worse. Of course, it's just an outcome of cost cutting, as there are and have been synths out there that provide a much better keyboard action, from the DX-7 to the OB-6.

[Flux302]

side note about those Green LED's (which Obviously I love all things green so I love the look) .. you can disable them completely. so its a non issue as far as if you don't like em.
It does sound very good. I hope that they port the 4 voice versions of the jupiter and juno to the system 1m . I don't see me buying the system 8 not for lack of quality but more because roland kinda nickel and dimed the users of the system 1 and 1m (I mean really I have to BUY the plug out of the system 1 engine to use it as a vst?) maybe if I see it used on the cheap... but damn it did sound like the real deal. the 1m kinda has some trouble with high rates of FM but definitely fairs better than most digital synths in this regard. i dunno,  aside from their eurorack stuff (which is really malekko) I kinda would rather roland stick to digital as opposed to analog... the analog they have done lately hasn't exactly been mind blowing, where as the digital stuff certainly sounds good (that pro mars sounds so damn real)

[Sacred Synthesis]

Side note about those Green LED's (which Obviously I love all things green so I love the look) .. you can disable them completely. so its a non issue as far as if you don't like 'em.

That was a smart idea. 

[Paul Dither]

It does sound very good. I hope that they port the 4 voice versions of the jupiter and juno to the system 1m . I don't see me buying the system 8 not for lack of quality but more because roland kinda nickel and dimed the users of the system 1 and 1m (I mean really I have to BUY the plug out of the system 1 engine to use it as a vst?) maybe if I see it used on the cheap... but damn it did sound like the real deal.

I listened to quite a view demos last week, including the System-8 and the System-1. I have to agree on the sound quality. It sounds really, really nice. I would even be tempted to get a System-1m for the System-100 plug-out alone, but then I learned that the hardware doesn't give access to all the necessary parameters, and that was the end of the story for me, since I belong to the "no mouse, more fun" group.
Nevertheless, the advantage of the hardware obviously lies in not making your computer's CPU freak out. That and having at least in most cases a bunch of dedicated controllers for the plug-outs seems to be it.
I can't really tolerate a hardware poly synth without aftertouch in 2016 though. Especially if it's all digital. That's a huge step back in terms of expression. And like I said before, the JD-Xa keyboard already felt super bad to me, and I don't assume Roland adjusted the quality for the System-8. In that regard I have to say sorry, it just doesn't feel like a proper keyboard that should be on a synth in this price range. After all, the System-8 and System-1 have been built to meet the haptic needs of musicians. If you fail to add a proper keyboard you basically damage the whole package in my opinion. It's like the lack of a MIDI interface and a headphone output when you buy all of the Roland modules in the SYR-E84 Eurorack case: a completely unnecessary move.

i dunno,  aside from their eurorack stuff (which is really malekko) I kinda would rather roland stick to digital as opposed to analog... the analog they have done lately hasn't exactly been mind blowing, where as the digital stuff certainly sounds good (that pro mars sounds so damn real)

I think you don't have to worry. But what analogs (the modules aside) are you referring to? The analog elements of the JD-Xa and JD-Xi?

[DavidDever]

I'd like to have the JD-Xa analogue section in a module, perhaps with built-in effects; that would have been far preferable to the Boutique Series hardware (JU-06, JP-08, JX-03). With Guitar Center blowing them out at 20% off, does this mean that they've got something up their sleeves for winter NAMM?

[Paul Dither]

I'd like to have the JD-Xa analogue section in a module, perhaps with built-in effects; that would have been far preferable to the Boutique Series hardware (JU-06, JP-08, JX-03). With Guitar Center blowing them out at 20% off, does this mean that they've got something up their sleeves for winter NAMM?

Not sure. The sellers I know told me that it's simply not a particular well-selling product.

[DavidDever]

I'd like to have the JD-Xa analogue section in a module, perhaps with built-in effects; that would have been far preferable to the Boutique Series hardware (JU-06, JP-08, JX-03). With Guitar Center blowing them out at 20% off, does this mean that they've got something up their sleeves for winter NAMM?

Not sure. The sellers I know told me that it's simply not a particular well-selling product.

Yeah, I could give you a few reasons why:

• the JP-08's cross-modulation is no good
• they failed to implement MIDI CCs on initial release
• four voices is just not enough without poly-chain capability
• the USB Audio sample rate is fixed at 44.1 kHz, while the rest of the AIRA Series works at 96 kHz

If you cut enough corners, you might end up with a circle....

[Paul Dither]

I'd like to have the JD-Xa analogue section in a module, perhaps with built-in effects; that would have been far preferable to the Boutique Series hardware (JU-06, JP-08, JX-03). With Guitar Center blowing them out at 20% off, does this mean that they've got something up their sleeves for winter NAMM?

Not sure. The sellers I know told me that it's simply not a particular well-selling product.

Yeah, I could give you a few reasons why:

• the JP-08's cross-modulation is no good
• they failed to implement MIDI CCs on initial release
• four voices is just not enough without poly-chain capability
• the USB Audio sample rate is fixed at 44.1 kHz, while the rest of the AIRA Series works at 96 kHz

If you cut enough corners, you might end up with a circle....

Ah, sorry I thought you were talking about the JD-Xa in the first place. Got that wrong. I was referring to the JD-Xa not being a top seller.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Any ideas as to the reasons the JD-Xa isn't selling well?  It looked like a decent instrument to me, except for the exterior body.

[eXode]

Not sure. The sellers I know told me that it's simply not a particular well-selling product.

I think it might have been too strange for most people with the 4 voice analog portion combined with the many voices digital portion. It's a bit of an odd fish really. Shame that they didn't do a synth based on only the analog portion with minimum six (preferably eight) voices instead.