Roland System 8 plug Out

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

The SuperNatural PWM is using samples (wavetables), people much more boring than ourselves have analysed it!

For me it doesn't matter how the sound is produced though, just what it sounds like and the Integra 7 is a box full of goodies.

Yes, I think the Supernatural piano and brass etc. I am talking only about the synth.
The only part you can edit from the iPad is the synth engine. No other Supernatural instruments.

[Razmo]

The SuperNatural technology is VariPhrase based, I'm pretty certain of it, because I can clearly hear the "sample", especially when you press the same key over and over, you can hear the "staticness"... VariPhrase can also be compared to wavetables in that the technology stores extra data about every single-cycle of the sample... that's what the VariPhrase encoding does in it's Solo encoding algorithm... you can hear it when you slow the speed down of playback... I bet that SuperNatural is nothing more than specially prepared and encoded samples, that has extra articulate synthesis for the way pitch, time and formants are handled relying on your playing technique... I believe this because the last V-Synth, the GT actually had SuperNatural in it's infancy... it was just called AP Synthesis instead of SuperNatural.

Also if you look at the features of the INTEGRA-7 it hints at it... it's sample based, because otherwise they would not have included all those SRX boards in it, allowing it to play back standard PCM as well... the Supernatural synthesis is so close, that the engine probably lends itself to PCM based playback easily as well.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

The SuperNatural technology is VariPhrase based, I'm pretty certain of it, because I can clearly hear the "sample", especially when you press the same key over and over, you can hear the "staticness"... VariPhrase can also be compared to wavetables in that the technology stores extra data about every single-cycle of the sample... that's what the VariPhrase encoding does in it's Solo encoding algorithm... you can hear it when you slow the speed down of playback... I bet that SuperNatural is nothing more than specially prepared and encoded samples, that has extra articulate synthesis for the way pitch, time and formants are handled relying on your playing technique... I believe this because the last V-Synth, the GT actually had SuperNatural in it's infancy... it was just called AP Synthesis instead of SuperNatural.

Also if you look at the features of the INTEGRA-7 it hints at it... it's sample based, because otherwise they would not have included all those SRX boards in it, allowing it to play back standard PCM as well... the Supernatural synthesis is so close, that the engine probably lends itself to PCM based playback easily as well.

Ahem, from one of the Roland engineers. 5th post down confirms the VA aspect of the oscillators.

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=37042

I have an Integra. You can choose the VA oscillators OR PCM samples.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

Also if you look at the features of the INTEGRA-7 it hints at it... it's sample based, because otherwise they would not have included all those SRX boards in it, allowing it to play back standard PCM as well... the Supernatural synthesis is so close, that the engine probably lends itself to PCM based playback easily as well.

Also, as stated previously, You can only edit the synth part of the Integra from an iPad and not any of the PCM SRX side.
They are two different engines.
Also when you say you can hear they are PCM, are you talking about the synth engine or the piano, brass etc?

[BobTheDog]

The SuperNatural technology is VariPhrase based, I'm pretty certain of it, because I can clearly hear the "sample", especially when you press the same key over and over, you can hear the "staticness"... VariPhrase can also be compared to wavetables in that the technology stores extra data about every single-cycle of the sample... that's what the VariPhrase encoding does in it's Solo encoding algorithm... you can hear it when you slow the speed down of playback... I bet that SuperNatural is nothing more than specially prepared and encoded samples, that has extra articulate synthesis for the way pitch, time and formants are handled relying on your playing technique... I believe this because the last V-Synth, the GT actually had SuperNatural in it's infancy... it was just called AP Synthesis instead of SuperNatural.

Also if you look at the features of the INTEGRA-7 it hints at it... it's sample based, because otherwise they would not have included all those SRX boards in it, allowing it to play back standard PCM as well... the Supernatural synthesis is so close, that the engine probably lends itself to PCM based playback easily as well.

Ahem, from one of the Roland engineers. 5th post down confirms the VA aspect of the oscillators.

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=37042

I have an Integra. You can choose the VA oscillators OR PCM samples.

They are "modelled" using samples not in straight PCM playback but the original waveform is based on samples. Whatever the Roland guy says!

[Razmo]

The Integra sports TWO different types of SuperNatural engines... Supernatural Synth, and Supernatural Acoustic... the later IS sample based... I can hear this very clearly, but it's definitely a LOT better than normal multisamples... I am not dissing the I7, I LOVE that synth a lot.

When you say "VA" synthesis, it must be in relation to the SuperNatural Synth engine... the raw standard waveforms you can choose actualy sound like VA... I have a feeling that the raw normal subtractive waveforms of analog synths are perheaps modelled... most likely they are the same as in the JP-8000... also V-Synth has this VA synthesis on top of the VariPhrase... but you can also choose a lot of "samples" in the SuperNatural Synth engine... and these are also clearly sample based.. I can hear it easily...

This is why I keep on stating that I7 is sample based... that is what it sound like to me... Roland say it's "Physical Modelling"... I don't believe this... they use Behavioral Modelling to articulate these "VariPhrase" samples... as I believe they are.

System-8 does not seem like a sample based synth... it seems like genuine analog modelling behavior.

[Razmo]

Also... you can certainly edit the SRX sounds on the I7... you can edit all parameters directly from the front panel. The supernatural Accoustic engine does not have many parameters to tweak about them... but both SuperNatural Synth and PCM tones can be fully edited without an iPad.

[BobTheDog]

I'm pretty sure the supernatural synth oscillators are sample based, you can see it yourself use a PCM oscillator and put it through a scope and change the pulse width. You can see the discreet steps as the pulse width changes between the waves in the wavetable, it isn't smooth as it would be if it was modelled.

Also the super wave oscillators loop, definitely sounds sample based to me.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

Also... you can certainly edit the SRX sounds on the I7... you can edit all parameters directly from the front panel. The supernatural Accoustic engine does not have many parameters to tweak about them... but both SuperNatural Synth and PCM tones can be fully edited without an iPad.

I said on the iPad. Of course you can edit from the front panel. You are telling me about a synth I actually own. haha

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

They are "modelled" using samples not in straight PCM playback but the original waveform is based on samples. Whatever the Roland guy says!

Well, I am more inclined to listen to the Roland engineer to be honest. He said it was modelled.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

The Integra sports TWO different types of SuperNatural engines... Supernatural Synth, and Supernatural Acoustic... the later IS sample based... I can hear this very clearly, but it's definitely a LOT better than normal multisamples... I am not dissing the I7, I LOVE that synth a lot.

When you say "VA" synthesis, it must be in relation to the SuperNatural Synth engine... the raw standard waveforms you can choose actualy sound like VA... I have a feeling that the raw normal subtractive waveforms of analog synths are perheaps modelled... most likely they are the same as in the JP-8000... also V-Synth has this VA synthesis on top of the VariPhrase... but you can also choose a lot of "samples" in the SuperNatural Synth engine... and these are also clearly sample based.. I can hear it easily...

This is why I keep on stating that I7 is sample based... that is what it sound like to me... Roland say it's "Physical Modelling"... I don't believe this... they use Behavioral Modelling to articulate these "VariPhrase" samples... as I believe they are.

System-8 does not seem like a sample based synth... it seems like genuine analog modelling behavior.

That is exactly what I said. The 'synth' oscillators on the SuperNatural SYNTH engine are modelled but you can also choose PCM in the same section.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

I'm pretty sure the supernatural synth oscillators are sample based, you can see it yourself use a PCM oscillator and put it through a scope and change the pulse width. You can see the discreet steps as the pulse width changes between the waves in the wavetable, it isn't smooth as it would be if it was modelled.

Also the super wave oscillators loop, definitely sounds sample based to me.

According to the engineer, the synth oscillators are VA. I am not talking about the PCM sounds you can choose as oscillators in the same section. I am talking saw square etc.

[BobTheDog]

They are "modelled" using samples not in straight PCM playback but the original waveform is based on samples. Whatever the Roland guy says!

Well, I am more inclined to listen to the Roland engineer to be honest. He said it was modelled.

Rather than listen to your ears, or use a scope?

Is there any proof he is a Roland engineer?

[BobTheDog]

I'm pretty sure the supernatural synth oscillators are sample based, you can see it yourself use a PCM oscillator and put it through a scope and change the pulse width. You can see the discreet steps as the pulse width changes between the waves in the wavetable, it isn't smooth as it would be if it was modelled.

Also the super wave oscillators loop, definitely sounds sample based to me.

According to the engineer, the synth oscillators are VA. I am not talking about the PCM sounds you can choose as oscillators in the same section. I am talking saw square etc.

I wasn't talking about the PCM sounds either, I was talking about SNS PW Square and SNS SuperSaw.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

Rather than listen to your ears, or use a scope?

Is there any proof he is a Roland engineer?

I believe he was Roland Product manager

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

I'm pretty sure the supernatural synth oscillators are sample based, you can see it yourself use a PCM oscillator and put it through a scope and change the pulse width.

I wasn't talking about the PCM sounds either, I was talking about SNS PW Square and SNS SuperSaw.

You said use a PCM oscillator......

[BobTheDog]

Sorry so I did, a typo (more likely brain burp)!

[Sacred Synthesis]

These sounds are definitely impressive:

[Paul Dither]

The sounds are definitely okay. It would be nice if someone could upload a couple of dryer sounds, i.e. without effects here and there.

I couldn't believe my eyes, though, when I read that the keyboard doesn't feature aftertouch.

[DavidDever]

I couldn't believe my eyes, though, when I read that the keyboard doesn't feature aftertouch.

...probably with a nod toward its longevity - the JD-Xa keybed, which it is reportedly similar to, is absolutely dismal for a modern performance instrument. (I'm seriously thinking about scooping a beater up off eBay at some point and desktop-ing the thing; if I'm feeling ambitious, maybe re-house the analogue brain into something else.)