Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80

LPF83

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Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« on: May 02, 2023, 04:28:23 AM »
During the opening of Starsky's video, before he revealed he was really playing the plugin, I thought to myself either he has chosen patches which intentionally sound more like a softsynth to play on the hardware, or it's a ruse and he's really playing the plugin controlling it with the hardware...I was able to instantly recognize something missing in the tone... it turned out to be the latter.
I've noticed that while many emulations appear to be producing identical sound when dissected under oscilloscope, the end result is simply never quite as appealing to my ear as actual hardware.

That said, it looks like an amazing plugin for someone that doesn't own the hardware, wants to have some fun with stereo layering (no doubt when blended with the tone of the hardware, run through FX, in a mix etc. distinguishing would be difficult).  Quite honestly I'm tempted to buy this, if only for the ability to turn off filter quantization.  I'd love to see Sequential add this feature to the Rev4 hardware, even though it does sort of undermine the Prophet personality and turn it into a different synth.

If you've never heard any of them, Softtube's analog emulations are some of the best available, I own a couple of them.  Model 84 is an amazing Juno rendition.  I find it to be a CPU gobbler on my older PC, and I have enough hardware synth options that I don't reach for it that often, but sonically it is truly impressive and I'm sure this one is too.

One thing that holds me back from a purchase is the rearrangement of knobs.  After working on the Rev4 so much, it feels a bit off to work with a UI that isn't laid out the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TaKS8NEZqg
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 04:32:24 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2023, 08:44:35 AM »
The U-He Repro has been the only soft P5 to knock me out. I don't own it, but use it in demo mode fairly often. I have a Pro One and a Prophet 5, yet the U-He versions still hold strong appeal. Somehow they've got the vibe as well as the sound nailed...

chysn

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2023, 11:54:25 AM »
I was just thinking of trying one of these, and was going to ask

(1) Do they read and/or write Prophet 5 Rev 4 sysex?
(2) Do they respond to Prophet 5 Rev 4 NRPN controls as expected?
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

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LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2023, 03:53:28 PM »
I was just thinking of trying one of these, and was going to ask

(1) Do they read and/or write Prophet 5 Rev 4 sysex?
(2) Do they respond to Prophet 5 Rev 4 NRPN controls as expected?

I wondered same but I have a feeling making a truly patch-compatible product would potentially make the product look bad by comparison (if it sounds even a little inferior, which of course it would being virtual analog instead of real... or if for some reason the patches didn't match perfectly), but more importantly might put them on a legal slippery slope with Sequential (which I think is also one reason the name of their emulations don't try to imitate the original product, and there are intentional look and feel differences).
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2023, 03:54:57 PM »
The U-He Repro has been the only soft P5 to knock me out. I don't own it, but use it in demo mode fairly often. I have a Pro One and a Prophet 5, yet the U-He versions still hold strong appeal. Somehow they've got the vibe as well as the sound nailed...

Have you tried the newest Arturia version?  It's much improved, not like the old one where they blended in Prophet VS to the same plugin (never understood that decision).

Arturia's plugins have really come a long way.  Only a few years ago, all of their offerings sounded pretty mediocre, but the new ones sound as good as I would expect an emulation to sound.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

maxter

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2023, 04:59:20 PM »
Arturia's plugins have really come a long way.  Only a few years ago, all of their offerings sounded pretty mediocre, but the new ones sound as good as I would expect an emulation to sound.
Few indeed... never used or heard an Arturia product I really liked. Softube on the other hand... but those days are gone then I suppose.

Anyhow, while not being able to pass judgment from a single tube-video, I really like the minor and economic "enhancements" Softube made here, and overall I get the impression they've done their homework A+ compared to other emulators. IF as good as Starsky makes this seem, I would easily go for this one and a dedicated controller, over an actual P5, price being a main factor of course. Time will tell. But I've never been really lit up by a P5 emulation, until this one. Creamware/SonicCore made a great Minimoog emulation and a quite good Odyssey too, but were far from nailing the P5. The P5 in particular seems to be quite a task to emulate (I know the others are mono/paraphonic though).
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2023, 08:42:43 PM »
I was just thinking of trying one of these, and was going to ask

(1) Do they read and/or write Prophet 5 Rev 4 sysex?
(2) Do they respond to Prophet 5 Rev 4 NRPN controls as expected?

I use my P6 as a MIDI controller, but I switched over to the P5 to try things out with the Repro. I'm really not experienced doing MIDI mappery, and couldn't get the P5 to do anything. It kept resetting the Repro panel to nil. This is likely user error on my part, but even the P6, when I switched back over, was a bit wacky. My Repro is a demo - not sure if that has any bearing. As much as I'd be into getting this to work, it's not something vital and so not likely something I'll keep working on for now...


Shaw

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2023, 03:40:20 AM »
Arturia's plugins have really come a long way.  Only a few years ago, all of their offerings sounded pretty mediocre, but the new ones sound as good as I would expect an emulation to sound.
Few indeed... never used or heard an Arturia product I really liked. Softube on the other hand... but those days are gone then I suppose.

Anyhow, while not being able to pass judgment from a single tube-video, I really like the minor and economic "enhancements" Softube made here, and overall I get the impression they've done their homework A+ compared to other emulators. IF as good as Starsky makes this seem, I would easily go for this one and a dedicated controller, over an actual P5, price being a main factor of course. Time will tell. But I've never been really lit up by a P5 emulation, until this one. Creamware/SonicCore made a great Minimoog emulation and a quite good Odyssey too, but were far from nailing the P5. The P5 in particular seems to be quite a task to emulate (I know the others are mono/paraphonic though).


Arturia’s Pigments sounds excellent… but yeah, as for the rest of their offerings… meh.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
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LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2023, 07:26:57 AM »
Arturia’s Pigments sounds excellent… but yeah, as for the rest of their offerings… meh.

Have you tried the specific plugins they updated a couple of years ago?  I don't think it was all instruments, but specific ones like the Jupiter 8 which were a major update sonically.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Shaw

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2023, 12:19:38 PM »
Arturia’s Pigments sounds excellent… but yeah, as for the rest of their offerings… meh.

Have you tried the specific plugins they updated a couple of years ago?  I don't think it was all instruments, but specific ones like the Jupiter 8 which were a major update sonically.


I did.  Admittedly, I have known to let my bias color my ears, so I will give them another listen... but there is a lot of quality out there to choose from at the moment.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Suhr Custom Modern | Mayones Jaba Custom | Godin Multiac Nylon | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2023, 04:16:35 PM »
I did.  Admittedly, I have known to let my bias color my ears, so I will give them another listen... but there is a lot of quality out there to choose from at the moment.

My evaluation was only relative to their prior versions, and other offerings.  You can definitely hear some "meh" in there if you are trying to, but I have a bit of that reaction to all softsynths -- literally none of them sound as good as hardware to my ears, but many of them can get close enough that having them available to supplement a mix is something I see as worthwhile.  I have also learned that the sound quality of any synth is a matter as subjective as how good a particular food tastes.  What one person hears coming out of a synth is rarely universally agreed upon.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Shaw

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2023, 11:19:04 PM »
I did.  Admittedly, I have known to let my bias color my ears, so I will give them another listen... but there is a lot of quality out there to choose from at the moment.

My evaluation was only relative to their prior versions, and other offerings.  You can definitely hear some "meh" in there if you are trying to, but I have a bit of that reaction to all softsynths -- literally none of them sound as good as hardware to my ears, but many of them can get close enough that having them available to supplement a mix is something I see as worthwhile.  I have also learned that the sound quality of any synth is a matter as subjective as how good a particular food tastes.  What one person hears coming out of a synth is rarely universally agreed upon.


I compared the Softube Model 80 to u-He’s Repro 5.  They are close to one another.  I compared the original Prophet 5 patches in each.  Sometimes I preferred the Repro 5 patch, sometimes the Model 80 patch, but most often, I found them nearly indistinguishable.


Both are excellent.


Someone said earlier that they haven’t yet heard a soft synth that sounds as good as the original… and while software is getting closer, I definitely agree with that sentiment.


What seems to be missing is 1) variability (lack of exactness) in everything (oscillators, filters, envelopes, LFOs), and 2) modeling the output stage of a synth.  I think it simply comes down to processing power.  The best guitar modellers are hardware units with DSP rivaling very capable computers (Fractal Audio, Neural DSP). 


Roland started down this path with System-8 and ACB… but (until recently) seemed to abandon the approach.  Their most recent Jupiter 8 plug-in is really good.


McDSP has an analogue box that is controlled by software plugins to emulate many different hardware components (EQs, compressors, channel strips).  It would be interesting to see a synth manufacturer take the approach of a synth comprised of software-controlled variable analogue components. 


OK… daydream over.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Suhr Custom Modern | Mayones Jaba Custom | Godin Multiac Nylon | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 emulation - Softube Model 80
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2023, 06:26:04 PM »
I thought about this thread and that we were talking about Arturia plugins when I saw Luke Million's most recent videos comparing them to vintage synths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXu0GvLmHjs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIsBurFa0tA

Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC