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Loads of DSI synths now out of production.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2015, 06:27:58 AM »
The P12 definitely handles Poly Aftertouch correct, I am pretty sure the Poly evolver and Tempest do as well.

Well, I'll be… it does work on the Prophet '08, as well. Poly-pressure keyboards are still too expensive, though, and just 37 keys won't do it.
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Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2015, 08:33:32 AM »
Sorry for off-topic... but this pic is interresting, and looks very much like a P6 module... anyone else have any info on this?

https://i.imgur.com/qJVKa0H.jpg
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2015, 08:35:31 AM »
Ahh... I see the "news is allready out... I'm off the internet for f****** 2 days, and everything happens in that period!  ;D
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2015, 08:37:25 AM »
Well, you haven't missed much more than those pictures.  We haven't found much else yet.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2015, 08:40:23 AM »
About the discontinuation of previous products... we've seen DSI reply earlier, that some older discontinued products was discontinued both because of missing parts, but also because they have a limit to how many products they can have running for production in their factory... so the end of these machines could very well be because they need "space" on the conveyer-belts for a new line of synths... Prophet 6 module being one of them.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2015, 08:54:21 AM »
Sure.  It was just surprising how many instruments went all at once.  In the past, they paced themselves more.  Of course, with the exception of the Evolver, these are all related products.  It makes you wonder if something is different, if perhaps more than one new product is coming.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 08:55:56 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2015, 09:39:48 AM »
Yeah... guess we'll never truly know... and just accept that they gone.

I'm currious though, what other machines we'll see after P6 module... to be honest, I'm not sure if the P6 is for me... it's not a match for the deep engine of the Prophet-08... it only sport a few things that make my GAS itch... the new filters and the FX... but the engine is not that revolutionary in my eyes... but I guess it's markeded at the live musician, and not a studio rat like me.... it's just my typpical "Gotta catch 'em all!" itch....  :P

I actualy think I'll pass this one... I don't need more poly-analog synths... I need new types of synthesis I do not allready have.... but still I think it's awesome that DSI makes both keys and modules of their synths... with the exeption of the Pro2 which really saddens me... I'd really like that synth in a module.

Anyway... I've gotten more interrest in digital synths lately, because they're very well suited for the Ambient style I'm embarking on... think the next thing I'll buy will be a KORG Wavedrum Global...
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2015, 09:51:15 AM »
Anyway... I STILL hope Dave will consider some sort of hybrid with sample oscillators in one way or another... Not neccessarily a sampler, but rather a synth that use looped samples as oscillators... I really think that DSI has a "hole" in their lineup of synths that would fill that particular sound... no other manufacturers are making hybrid sample synthesizers currently, and Sequencial do have past sampler products, so there would be good reason to update one of those, just like he updated his Prophet line.

Just imagine looped choir textures, multisampled over the entire keyboard, each voice running thru the P12 style modulation matrix for manipulation, and "creamed over" by analog filters and amplifiers... it would be a machine that would be on my number one "want!" list emediately... Put in some improved "Wavestation" engine on top, and I'm sure DSI would have a winner...
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2015, 10:06:08 AM »
I think the outstanding quality of the Prophet 6 is it's bona fide analog sound.  Obviously, the architecture is on the simple side, so it comes down to a raw more authentic sound.  That's what its owners are primarily raving about, although it does have some interesting features.  Sometimes a simple design makes you work harder and be more inventive with what is there, and with interesting results.

For now, my eight-voice Evolver takes up the digital slack, but I, too, would be interested in a DSI all-digital instrument comparable to a Wavestation.  Who knows what the DSI side of the company will produce next?  Sequential seems to have dominated the past year or more.  In light of the obvious Sequential character, I would expect the DSI line to increasingly distinguish itself from old school type instruments.  They couldn't go in a similar direction with both lines.

If I could have one wish, I would love to see an enlarged Prophet '08 - ten voices, four DCOs, a high pass filter, longer envelopes, some onboard effects.  That would suit me perfectly.  I've been hoping for that since before the Prophet 12 was released.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 07:10:28 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2015, 10:48:11 AM »
But I still think a Sequential Prophet-1 is in the near future.  That's the one instrument that is most being requested from folks.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:04:52 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

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The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

dslsynth

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2015, 11:27:30 AM »
Agree with Razmo that we need new types of digital oscillators. Look at new ideas such as iZotope Iris style spectral filtering and granular style oscillators for instance. Waldorf rules the world with their wave table oscillators but these days we got way more memory and cpu power so new possibilities exists. It may require DSI to reach out to others for technique development though.

Agree with Sacred Synthesis that Prophet-6 is first and foremost a music machine. It got a fairly simple voice architecture with well sounding discrete electronics oscillators/filters and expects to be able to get away with that (hair color jokes deliberately omitted). And yes it sounds very good! Had a chance to pet one the other day. Quite impressive unison patches!

Taking a step back and looking at the larger picture we have seen a number of analog and digital feature developments in the recent years in new DSI/Sequential products: discrete highpass filter in Tempest, resonant highpass filter in Prophet 12, discrete lowpass filter in Pro2 and VCOs in Prophet-6. To this we can add the new digital oscillators of Prophet 12 and the super waves of Pro2.

I see new DSI/Sequential products as for what new interesting voice architecture features they bring to the table that may fit in a future DSI product that I may be interested in. And are sort of coming to terms with that that may actually new happen. Especially not for a machine with multi-timbral features and a complex voice.

As for me wishing a really complex voice Prophet-6 is a step in the other direction: make an updated vintage like machine with high quality sound and an even more constrained design than Dave usually does.

What could be interesting is if they stepped in the opposite direction and made a somewhat unconstrained design featuring (say) four analog and four digital oscillators, audio rate modulation matrix featuring various audio rate modifiers (lowpass, bandpass, highpass, wavefolder, slew) operators, more than four lfos/envelopes, sequencer at least as neat as Pro2s sequencer and a discrete state variable multi-mode filter inspired by the Modal Electronics 002/008 filter designs.

Such a machine would be quite expensive! But it would also be perfect for people like me wanting a very complex voice to work with and would fit perfectly into a high voice contents low user interface ratio module design. Sort of like a modular in a box. Which I think would be perfect successor to the Evolver. A version of it with a Curtis chip filter followed by an Oberheim state variable filter could be an interesting variant.

Once such a machine have been developed DSI could make a modular preset manager allowing for the same type of voice digital features to be used in an eurorack context which allows for the user to combine a few modules with the preset manager to make up for a full synthesizer voice of own design. With the right software support it could really progress the eurorack format while limiting the need to reach into the cable salad all the time. Some users may even want to play around with voice architecture of the hour/day/week concepts instead of manually re-cabling all the time. Such a preset manager module would be a high density module. And better yet it would be a simple continuation of what DSI have made all the time: advanced digital control.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:33:28 AM by dslsynth »
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2015, 11:39:35 AM »
If I could have one wish, I would love to see an enlarged Prophet '08 - ten voices, four DCOs, a high pass filter, longer envelopes, some onboard effects.  That would suit me perfectly.  I've been hoping for that since before the Prophet 12 was released.

I assume DSI's DCO synths are a thing of the past now. The last models that will carry those are both incarnations of the Prophet '08 and the Mopho x4. Sequential might be all about VCO instruments in the future, while DSI is going to be the hybrid manufacturer.

I've said it before, but I would be totally in for an updated Wavestation under the banner DSI as well. Throw away all the Rompler waves (Piano and stuff live that), add some granular tools and the option to import user wavetables and samples via USB, add the analog filters of the Pro 2 and the effect section of the Prophet-6, and of course a vector stick for real-time morphing and recording (of morphing). That and a more hands on approach to wave-sequencing (inspired by the Evolver method). In fact, the only analog elements I would like to see embedded in such an instrument would be the filters and stereo distortion. To keep the costs down due to the analog parts, limit it to 8 voices.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2015, 12:25:12 PM »
Throw away all the Rompler waves (Piano and stuff live that), add some granular tools and the option to import user wavetables and samples via USB, add the analog filters (…)

I don't know about throwing out the standard waves; if there's a bit crusher / sample rate reducer or some other fancy sample manipulation before the filters I imagine you can get very interesting sounds out of even the most boring samples!

Otherwise you're describing quite the digital dream machine there.
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dslsynth

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2015, 12:28:42 PM »
I assume DSI's DCO synths are a thing of the past now.

Well I would say that the DCO machines using the Curtis chip analog oscillators are a thing of the past. I could easily see DSI make new discrete analog electronics DCOs for future designs. With a little luck they will not have a crossover point click and possibly sound fatter than the older Curtis chip oscillators.

There are good reasons for new voice architecture features are being developed these years. Its partly technical, partly sound quality and partly competition inspired.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2015, 12:29:57 PM »
It's interesting really, from my point of view a synth in general is not an expressive instrument compared to a violin due to the hardware used to play it.

Synths tend to be controlled by note on/note off, velocity and aftertouch (if you are lucky poly). You have other controllers that can be used for volume, sustain or modulation but these tend to be global in their effect, not per note.

A stringed instrument gives you much more control over each string, and for bowed instruments control over how that note evolves.

This year I got a Linnstrument. this gives me per note control over 4 parameters per note: velocity, pressure X and Y. And then of course any global control I might need from pedals etc.

Now this opens up another level of expression but of course most hardware synths just cannot deal with this even though it would be quite easy to make them act this way.

So now I am heading away from using hardware synths to the software synths that support this, The Uhe synths, Madrona synths, Omnisphere, Kontakt, physical modelling with Reaktor and the most recent Strobe2 from the wonderful Expansion who are now updating all their synths to work this way.

So my P12 isn't being used much anymore which is a shame, if it was changed to work as a multi channel synth, one note per channel then it would be opened up to these extra levels of expression, I really hope that DSI have this on their list.



Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2015, 12:33:06 PM »
I don't know about throwing out the standard waves; if there's a bit crusher / sample rate reducer or some other fancy sample manipulation before the filters I imagine you can get very interesting sounds out of even the most boring samples!

Oh, I just meant all the waves that were an obvious concession at around that time (early 1990s) in terms of what many people expected to hear ("Can it do pianos?"). But yeah, technically you're right: With the right tools you can make pretty much anything sound interesting.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2015, 12:33:53 PM »
Well I would say that the DCO machines using the Curtis chip analog oscillators are a thing of the past. I could easily see DSI make new discrete analog electronics DCOs for future designs. With a little luck they will not have a crossover point click and possibly sound fatter than the older Curtis chip oscillators.

There are good reasons for new voice architecture features are being developed these years. Its partly technical, partly sound quality and partly competition inspired.

What would be the point in DCOs when they have their new, very stable VCOs now? They certainly would not be cheaper if they're also based on a discrete design.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2015, 12:38:29 PM »
It's interesting really, from my point of view a synth in general is not an expressive instrument compared to a violin due to the hardware used to play it.

Synths tend to be controlled by note on/note off, velocity and aftertouch (if you are lucky poly). You have other controllers that can be used for volume, sustain or modulation but these tend to be global in their effect, not per note.

A stringed instrument gives you much more control over each string, and for bowed instruments control over how that note evolves.

This year I got a Linnstrument. this gives me per note control over 4 parameters per note: velocity, pressure X and Y. And then of course any global control I might need from pedals etc.

Now this opens up another level of expression but of course most hardware synths just cannot deal with this even though it would be quite easy to make them act this way.

So now I am heading away from using hardware synths to the software synths that support this, The Uhe synths, Madrona synths, Omnisphere, Kontakt, physical modelling with Reaktor and the most recent Strobe2 from the wonderful Expansion who are now updating all their synths to work this way.

So my P12 isn't being used much anymore which is a shame, if it was changed to work as a multi channel synth, one note per channel then it would be opened up to these extra levels of expression, I really hope that DSI have this on their list.

I agree. I got the chance to play a Linnstrument for the first time last week. It's pretty cool. And a very well thought out user interface too - from play modes to global settings. If I would ever get an additional controller, this is amongst the few instruments that would actually make sense to me.

dslsynth

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2015, 12:48:58 PM »
So my P12 isn't being used much anymore which is a shame, if it was changed to work as a multi channel synth, one note per channel then it would be opened up to these extra levels of expression, I really hope that DSI have this on their list.

Exactly the same reason that I want multi-timbral support on DSI instruments. If one wants per note expression of any meaningful type then multi-timbral features are needed. Either for MPE compatible instruments like your LinnStrument or for more complex types of operation like the stuff I am playing with.

Fortunately the MPE is more limited than full multi-timbral support so we may one day see that in new DSI products.

MPE information (originally via Roger Linn site):
http://expressiveness.org/2015/04/24/midi-specifications-for-multidimensional-polyphonic-expression-mpe
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vpjxoPHw82X3xyNvE6_hsDeL86vloNQZC83NHD8edow/edit?pli=1
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26r0pVtVBrZHM6VGA05hpF-ij5xT6aaXY9BfDzyTx8/edit?pli=1


And here are some food thought for DSI given how much of a software development resource Geert Bevin really are:
http://expressiveness.org/2015/04/24/leaving-zeroturnaround-joining-moog-music
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 12:51:10 PM by dslsynth »
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2015, 12:50:33 PM »
This year I got a Linnstrument. this gives me per note control over 4 parameters per note: velocity, pressure X and Y. And then of course any global control I might need from pedals etc.

Now this opens up another level of expression but of course most hardware synths just cannot deal with this even though it would be quite easy to make them act this way.

How do you like the Linnstrument? Haven't seen one yet, but I consider them remarkable devices.

Considering just the Prophet~6, it's conceivable to create a firmware-only update which could handle all the Linnstrument's outputs by adjusting how MIDI data is handled and distributed to the voices.
The P~6 already has expression pedal inputs for the low pass frequency and volume, either of which could be assigned to the y pressure; pressure on x could control pitch and z pressure is standard polyphonic aftertouch. Now standard MIDI only supports only polyphonic aftertouch, so the other controls had to be adapted to be per-voice, as well. I don't know how the Linnstrument transmits its data, but there is nothing in theory that prevents a software update which could handle it all in a simple way.

The combination of a Prophet~6 module capable such of per-voice articulation in combination with the Linnstrument would be such a fantastic, expressive instrument, yet remain quite compact!

EDIT
You got me there, dslsynth  ;) Interesting read!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 12:52:24 PM by Strange Quark Star »
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