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Loads of DSI synths now out of production.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #140 on: October 08, 2016, 03:31:35 PM »
Sorry, I indeed forgot to add that I meant the module version. I'm confused now what you are referring to with regard to software interfaces. Do you mean virtual interfaces, like for plug-ins?

Module: cool! With software interfaces I mean any kind of software interacting with the synthesizer. Which is why its so important that the MIDI implementation works correctly (to stay on topic!).

So mostly DAW integration?

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #141 on: October 08, 2016, 05:31:37 PM »
Eight voices are just right for my needs, so the multiple modules are for layering sounds.  But having multiple modules also allows you to create tones, in imitation of simple additive synthesis.  Some of the Evolver wave shapes can be recreated on a Prophet '08 if you have enough oscillators available.

Interesting. So, what exactly are you doing to achieve simple additive synthesis? Do you have any particular examples?

Using mostly triangle waveforms, I combine various pitches to imitate the solo stops on a pipe organ.  Obviously, a single Prophet '08 in Stack Mode will offer you four tones, but the result is rather stiff sounding.  So combining the two P'08s together warms up the sound nicely.  That much pertains to emulating reed/nazard type sounds.  The other aspect concerns combining imitations of diapason stops at 8', 4', and 2' pitches, together with 8' reeds and mixtures.

This is a simple example of first mentioned solo stop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8nQIZ_mVY), and this an example of the fuller organ sound with reeds but without mixtures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVeqTizSJXE), and this is with mixtures (https://youtu.be/2pQg6FD6dcU?t=2m56s). 

The unique thing about the Prophet '08 is its ability to be multiplied in such an effective way, and without breaking the bank.  You couldn't as easily do this with the Poly Evolver, due to its limited voice count and the expense.  I've often considered shifting to the Prophet 12 and buying perhaps three units, but I'm obviously not too certain about the results.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 06:20:13 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #142 on: October 09, 2016, 04:34:05 AM »
Using mostly triangle waveforms, I combine various pitches to imitate the solo stops on a pipe organ.  Obviously, a single Prophet '08 in Stack Mode will offer you four tones, but the result is rather stiff sounding.  So combining the two P'08s together warms up the sound nicely.  That much pertains to emulating reed/nazard type sounds.  The other aspect concerns combining imitations of diapason stops at 8', 4', and 2' pitches, together with 8' reeds and mixtures.

This is a simple example of first mentioned solo stop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8nQIZ_mVY), and this an example of the fuller organ sound with reeds but without mixtures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVeqTizSJXE), and this is with mixtures (https://youtu.be/2pQg6FD6dcU?t=2m56s).

Thanks for the examples, I like these a lot - especially the second and third one. You used sawtooth waves for the fuller organ sound with reeds though, right? How did you achieve the bandpass-like timbre for it?

The unique thing about the Prophet '08 is its ability to be multiplied in such an effective way, and without breaking the bank.  You couldn't as easily do this with the Poly Evolver, due to its limited voice count and the expense.  I've often considered shifting to the Prophet 12 and buying perhaps three units, but I'm obviously not too certain about the results.

What a Prophet 12 would add to organ-like additive synthesis, is especially its sine wave I guess, as it's also the basis of Fourier synthesis and additive synthesis in electronic organs. I bet, one could even generate rather convincing Hammond emulations with the sine waves - especially if one would use 3 Prophet 12s and added some distortion. That wouldn't be your goal, but I'm just saying.

From my Pro 2 experience I'd say that waveforms like Mellow, Church, Nasal, and Gothic would lend themselves to pretty interesting applications too. Those waveforms could certainly be relevant for you.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 04:36:06 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #143 on: October 09, 2016, 11:29:15 AM »
Using mostly triangle waveforms, I combine various pitches to imitate the solo stops on a pipe organ.  Obviously, a single Prophet '08 in Stack Mode will offer you four tones, but the result is rather stiff sounding.  So combining the two P'08s together warms up the sound nicely.  That much pertains to emulating reed/nazard type sounds.  The other aspect concerns combining imitations of diapason stops at 8', 4', and 2' pitches, together with 8' reeds and mixtures.

This is a simple example of first mentioned solo stop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8nQIZ_mVY), and this an example of the fuller organ sound with reeds but without mixtures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVeqTizSJXE), and this is with mixtures (https://youtu.be/2pQg6FD6dcU?t=2m56s).

Thanks for the examples, I like these a lot - especially the second and third one. You used sawtooth waves for the fuller organ sound with reeds though, right? How did you achieve the bandpass-like timbre for it?

No, I used pulse width modulation in an attempt to substitute for the rich chorus quality of countless swirling pipes.  Depending on the PWM range - and not merely its depth - the timbre can sound as if you've got something other than a simple lowpass filter.  It's one of the features I really like about the P'08.

I'm not trying to fool anybody into thinking I've got my own personal pipe organ.  I'm unabashedly using a synthesizer, but a patch that can be used for organ music.  When I use the word "imitate," I use it loosely.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 11:34:00 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #144 on: October 09, 2016, 11:36:02 AM »
I'm not an expert with hammond but with a single P12 with layering you get the 8 oscillators and sub to give you the 9 drawbars, this click is still a problem though unless you loose one of the harmonics.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #145 on: October 09, 2016, 11:38:44 AM »
What a Prophet 12 would add to organ-like additive synthesis, is especially its sine wave I guess, as it's also the basis of Fourier synthesis and additive synthesis in electronic organs. I bet, one could even generate rather convincing Hammond emulations with the sine waves - especially if one would use 3 Prophet 12s and added some distortion. That wouldn't be your goal, but I'm just saying.

From my Pro 2 experience I'd say that waveforms like Mellow, Church, Nasal, and Gothic would lend themselves to pretty interesting applications too. Those waveforms could certainly be relevant for you.

In light of these sorts of complex sounds, it would be natural for me to turn to the Prophet 12.  It's just that it would take a huge effort to work it all out.  But even more, the Prophet '08 just has me hooked.  The character is just right for these sorts of musical pursuits, and the cost is far more practical.   
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #146 on: October 09, 2016, 11:40:59 AM »
I'm not an expert with hammond but with a single P12 with layering you get the 8 oscillators and sub to give you the 9 drawbars, this click is still a problem though unless you loose one of the harmonics.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Regardless, I'm not into the Hammond sound.  I has an XK 3c for a couple of years, and didn't care for it.  But your right, a P12 could certainly imitate a Hammond just fine, including the key click.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #147 on: October 09, 2016, 11:44:53 AM »
No, I used pulse width modulation in an attempt to substitute for the rich chorus quality of countless swirling pipes.  Depending on the PWM range - and not merely its depth - the timbre can sound as if you've got something other than a simple lowpass filter.  It's one of the features I really like about the P'08.

Gotcha. Narrow pulse width explains the nasal sound.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #148 on: October 09, 2016, 12:00:10 PM »
I'm not an expert with hammond but with a single P12 with layering you get the 8 oscillators and sub to give you the 9 drawbars, this click is still a problem though unless you loose one of the harmonics.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Regardless, I'm not into the Hammond sound.  I has an XK 3c for a couple of years, and didn't care for it.  But your right, a P12 could certainly imitate a Hammond just fine, including the key click.

I was replying to Paul and wondered why you would need three P12s for a Hammond sound.

Wasn't in any way implying that you like Hammonds!

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #149 on: October 09, 2016, 12:56:08 PM »
I'm not an expert with hammond but with a single P12 with layering you get the 8 oscillators and sub to give you the 9 drawbars, this click is still a problem though unless you loose one of the harmonics.

Or am I missing something obvious?

I guess the problem is that in the end you'd be left with 6 voices only, as you can't poly-chain two or more Prophet 12s to each other. So the only way to layer for this particular use would be to have at least two Prophet 12s of which each takes care of one half of the sound and control them via one keyboard. - I'm writing this in the assumption that 6 voices wouldn't be enough for Sacred Synthesis.

chysn

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #150 on: October 09, 2016, 01:17:29 PM »
Back when I played in a rock and roll band*, I set up a starting patch on my DX7 that used Algorithm 23, where each modulator was a carrier, and tuned the carriers to the first six harmonics.  Then I could program a series of rock organ sounds by adjusting the levels of the six carriers. It sounded quite good in the mix (guitar, bass, drums). If I ever play as keyboardist in a band again, I'll get another DX7, because it's a wonderful rock band instrument.

* "Rock and roll band" might sound anachronistic in 2016, but there's no better way to describe our sound.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
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dslsynth

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #151 on: October 09, 2016, 01:30:51 PM »
I've often considered shifting to the Prophet 12 and buying perhaps three units, but I'm obviously not too certain about the results.

How about combining a single Prophet-12 module with your Prophet '08 setup? The Prophet-12 can by itself do filters in stereo via DC source while the Prophet '08 gives the solid analog foundation. Could work out very well for your type of music. Plus it will give you a combination of analog and digital waveforms. In this way you don't have to sell everything and try to build a new setup. Instead you can make incremental changes to your setup. Also it seems like the Prophet-12 module have a lower price now than when it was announced.
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dslsynth

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #152 on: October 09, 2016, 01:32:10 PM »
So mostly DAW integration?

I was deliberately being as general as possible. ;)
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #153 on: October 09, 2016, 02:20:52 PM »
I've often considered shifting to the Prophet 12 and buying perhaps three units, but I'm obviously not too certain about the results.

How about combining a single Prophet-12 module with your Prophet '08 setup? The Prophet-12 can by itself do filters in stereo via DC source while the Prophet '08 gives the solid analog foundation. Could work out very well for your type of music. Plus it will give you a combination of analog and digital waveforms. In this way you don't have to sell everything and try to build a new setup. Instead you can make incremental changes to your setup. Also it seems like the Prophet-12 module have a lower price now than when it was announced.

True, but I don't like the mismatched numbers of voices.  The P12's additional four voices would go to waste, so it wouldn't be worth the expense.  But one combination that I think would work well would be a Prophet 6 and a Prophet 12 Module in stacked mode.  I'd say that would be a very impressive instrument.  I wonder if anyone has tried it.

What you've suggested works fine in combining an eight-voice Poly Evolver and a Prophet '08 Module or two.  It's basically the same end result as using a P12 Module, but without the wasted voices.  I've used that arrangement quite a bit, but I actually found that I liked the instruments  better when separate - pure Evolver and pure Prophet '08. 

One thing I especially like in keeping the P'08s together is maximizing the PWM.  It's quite a sound when the PWM is set to its deepest amounts and fastest rates, according to the register.  As we all know, PWM changes according to pitch.  One setting that sounds lush in the mid keyboard range sounds overly detuned in the lowest octaves and too mild in the upper.  When you've got multiple oscillators and multiple octaves set together, you can adjust each to get the maximum PWM according to pitch range.  Now that is a magnificent sound.

Obviously, the Evolver's digital oscillators can't offer PWM, so it's not the PWM monster that the P'08 is.  But on another note, the Poly Evolvers have the looks.  :D  Doesn't this picture just warm the cockles of your synthesist's heart?

« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 02:48:10 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #154 on: October 09, 2016, 02:45:31 PM »
So mostly DAW integration?

I was deliberately being as general as possible. ;)

Sigh… And I thought I was a generalist.  ;)

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #155 on: October 09, 2016, 02:56:42 PM »
But one combination that I think would work well would be a Prophet 6 and a Prophet 12 Module in stacked mode.  I'd say that would be a very impressive instrument.  I wonder if anyone has tried it.



Obviously, the Evolver's digital oscillators can't offer PWM, so it's not the PWM monster that the P'08 is.  But on another note, the Poly Evolvers have the looks.  :D  Doesn't this picture just warm the cockles of your synthesist's heart?

DSI should build you a custom double-PEK à la Prophet-10 for Christmas.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 02:58:35 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #156 on: October 09, 2016, 03:14:09 PM »
What, no pedalboard?

DSI can build me anything they'd like.  Out of the warmth of my heart, I'd be willing to accept it.
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #157 on: October 09, 2016, 03:50:44 PM »
All I ask is that DSI offer a neat little gadget for the feet like this.  Call it the Poly Evolver Pedalboard (PEP).



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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #158 on: October 10, 2016, 09:20:12 AM »
Back when I played in a rock and roll band*, I set up a starting patch on my DX7 that used Algorithm 23, where each modulator was a carrier, and tuned the carriers to the first six harmonics.  Then I could program a series of rock organ sounds by adjusting the levels of the six carriers. It sounded quite good in the mix (guitar, bass, drums). If I ever play as keyboardist in a band again, I'll get another DX7, because it's a wonderful rock band instrument.

* "Rock and roll band" might sound anachronistic in 2016, but there's no better way to describe our sound.

Ha, me too! The DX7 was an excellent faux organ, until I started snapping keys off the keybed with sideways flourishes. It was even more killer with a Morley wah pedal and a bit of tube amplifier-induced distortion.
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

blewis

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #159 on: July 01, 2019, 08:09:17 PM »
Stumbled upon this thread. Nice accident. Page 6 was quite informative.

...and there are even more discontinued products now.

Very excited about seeing what’s coming this summer.