SCI Prophet VS

[Sacred Synthesis]

I have always been impressed with the Prophet VS.  Outside of the DSI realm, it's definitely one of my favorite instruments.  It was Dave Smith's warm up for the Poly Evolver.  Or is the VS better than the PEK?

There's a VS for sale in my area for $2,700, excellent condition.  Golly, it's tempting!

Here's a mostly musical demonstration:

[Paul Dither]

That's a nice demo. I wouldn't or couldn't say whether it's better or worse than the PEK. It's pretty much its own thing, as there's no vector synthesis option (although it's strictly speaking not really a form of synthesis) on the Evolver. The only thing these types of instruments share is or are the waveforms of the digital oscillators.

To me it's as unique as all the relatively early hybrids like the PPG for example. I guess when I talk about wishing for a sort of updated Wavestation by DSI, I really have the sound quality of the VS in mind, which was superior in that regard due to its analog filter and the focus on truly artificial sounds instead of the late Wavestation's integration of more natural ROMpler sounds like pianos for example. The latter's strong point was wave sequencing instead. I definitely wouldn't say no to a re-envisioned version of it, the VS plus the WS's strong points that is.

$2,700 for a VS in good condition is a good deal though. Maybe not objectively, but compared to the usual prices. If it's not too far away you should just check it out in person.

Here's another recent demo:

[Sacred Synthesis]

That's a good demo, too.  There are many.

The sound of the VS is so similar to that of the PEK when its waveshapes are used statically.  That's probably why I like it so much.  All the PEK needs is a joystick. 

It seems to me there's another instrument lurking out there yet to be made - a sort of VS/PEK/PPG/Wavestation 8-voice synth - and Dave's the man for it.  I'd love this sort of a digital instrument with mystique to it.  Oh, and it has to be blue!

[BobTheDog]

I'm still hoping the next synth from DSI is a VS remake. I'd get that one.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Absolutely.  The VS stands as such a unique instrument.  I'd like to see DSI approach it with something having a similarly generous number and selection of digital waveshapes.  I don't think the Prophet 12 at all fills the VS vacuum.  I mean, if your going to go digital, then really go digital.  Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

[DavidDever]

The Prophet VS definitely has that glassy 80s texture to it, though, in spite of having Curtis filters (though I firmly believe that the MSR/DSI Curtis-on-a-chip sounds miles better, possibly due to better signal-to-noise within the audio path of the chip itself). By contrast, I don't hear this from SSM-based synths/samplers from the same period (e.g., E-mu Emax I).

FWIW, the same has been said regarding the PPG Wave's change from SSM to Curtis filter ICs.

Compared to the Prophet-12 (4x digital oscs) and the (Poly) Evolver (2x analog + 2x digital oscs), both of which use the MSR/DSI IC design, I'm not sure it holds up as well–but others may disagree.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This is such a superb instrument.  I just love these sounds.  Surely there's sonic territory here for DSI to revisit in a future synthesizer.

[Shaw]

Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

Ha!  That was a good one.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

Ha!  That was a good one.

He tricked us with the Rev2!

[Shaw]

Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

Ha!  That was a good one.

He tricked us with the Rev2!

And the P6... and the Pro 2....

[Sacred Synthesis]

Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

Ha!  That was a good one.

He tricked us with the Rev2!

And the P6... and the Pro 2....

I have to admit, you're right on all of those.  Well, I'm gonna sit at home and wait for my Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II. 

[Shaw]

Then again, I'd be perfectly happy with a new and improved Poly Evolver, but Dave doesn't do such things.

Ha!  That was a good one.

He tricked us with the Rev2!

And the P6... and the Pro 2....

I have to admit, you're right on all of those.  Well, I'm gonna sit at home and wait for my Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II.

At least the odds are in your favor.

[LoboLives]

I think Dave's instruments have always surpassed other company's that are currently on the market. For whatever reason other companies thus far haven't been able to really compete with DSI. Either their keybeds are too small, they don't have as many voices, the user interface is poor, or they are drastically more expensive. I think DSI has always been about standing out.

This is why at NAMM I think it would be foolish to release another analog polysynth. Korg is scheduled to do a fullsized one. I don't want to see DSI backtrack. The only thing left really in the analog realm is multitimbrality and I can't see them doing that...yet.

But I think this NAMM should be the year DSI does a swerve and does a new hybrid or digital synth with analog filters. I don't see them doing a sampler but I can see them doing a new digital based synth. I know Dave says the Prophet 12 IS the digital synth...but there's a lot of room for improvements: VS waves, more effects and maybe even throw some samples in there.

Analog has made a resurgence and I don't want to see DSI start to dwindle (like Moog). They are the measuring stick to all else in the synth realm so I'd like to see them keep moving forward.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This request has become the new drumbeat around here.  Maybe it'll have an impact.  All I can say is that I'm all for it and have been for years.  But considering all the indications, I wouldn't expect to see it this NAMM.

I would agree with the view that the Prophet 12 is not that digital instrument.  Not by a long shot.  Having it beside my Poly Evolver Keyboard, the P12 immediately came across as a glorified stand-in for the Prophet '08, with the PEK shining as the true digital instrument.

[Paul Dither]

This request has become the new drumbeat around here.  Maybe it'll have an impact.

As far as I can tell, there are currently three very popular wishes for upcoming DSI instruments across all kinds of synth forums. One is indeed a revisited Prophet VS. The others are either an Evolver MKII or a Sampler that follows the tradtion of the Prophet 2000.

[Sacred Synthesis]

The drumbeat is for some form of a digital or a digital hybrid instrument.  I've seen the expression "Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II" more times than I can count.  In fact, I've been seeing it for years (and not just in my own posts!).

One of the outstanding characteristics of the PEK is its particular set of digital wave shapes.  Not just any wave shapes, but those in particular.  If the VS/Evolver wave shapes could be cleaned up of their rather extreme digital aliasing, we'd already be partway to a new instrument.  Then include the joystick for that VS morphing sound, and you've got the other distinctive element.  Finally, it has to be blue!

[Paul Dither]

One of the outstanding characteristics of the PEK is its particular set of digital wave shapes.  Not just any wave shapes, but those in particular.  If the VS/Evolver wave shapes could be cleaned up of their rather extreme digital aliasing, we'd already be partway to a new instrument.

This might be an iffy topic, as there is something now that is considered vintage digital, where aliasing is perceived not only as charming, but also as musical. It's like with all those old samplers that processed sounds in 8 or 12 bit. That sort of resulted in a very unique sound, be it on PPGs, the Fairlight, the LinnDrum, or the VS. Many 002 users also make use of the DeRes parameter to get that old grittiness back. So I think a good and realistic compromise would be to add a bit reduction parameter, maybe one that behaves a little more musical or predictable than the bitcrusher on the actual Evolver or P12/P2. One could for example implement a feature that allows you to choose between 24, 16, 12, and 8 bit modes. It would basically be the equivalent to the slop parameter in analog synths by providing vintage sample rates for digital oscillators.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Yes, I realize that, and I was about to add it to my post.  I've developed an uncharacteristic liking for an amount of that aliasing, too.  The problem is, it's so severe that many of the wave shapes are unusable, except for limited effects.  So, I think your idea for bit reduction is an excellent and a necessary one.

[Sacred Synthesis]

By the way, the Prophet VS Youtube videos are quite popular, with most of them having several thousands of views, or more.  The VS-PEK interest is palpable.

[Paul Dither]

Yeah, it can definitely get nasty in the higher registers, where it can end up becoming unusable for certain purposes.

I mostly pointed this out because what many desire about the VS or PPG sound is exactly that sound, not necessarily a technically improved one that probably a not inconsiderable number of users would end up describing as too clinical. It's a bit like that with the Minimoog as well, which contained an error in the filter circuit that eventually ended up producing that particularly desired sound.

Giving the user the option to choose between clearly targeted bit modes instead of a continuous bitcrusher would make sound design easier for those who'd like to go for that vintage glitch.

What would also be exciting is to try out a vaster array of digital waveforms with different filter types, i.e. not only the Curtis filter, but also the SSM-based filter type of the Prophet-6 and the Pro 2, or the state variable filter design of either the Pro 2 or the OB-6. Tom Oberheim is said to have had plans for a hybrid in the 1980s, but he stepped back due to the still persisting aliasing issues. So an enhanced filter topography could emulate what it could have been like.