Sequential Circuits

dslsynth

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2015, 12:13:27 PM »
Two Tetras would have been ideal in order to allow both for stereo panning and polyphonic playing, since you often want to double octaves or add an upper fifth for final chords.

Just to understand it completely: How many notes do you need to play simultaneously on your bass pedals?

Would more oscillators in each voice - still dreaming about four analog and four digital oscillators in each voice - actually reduce your need to spend two voices on each note per left/right side? Or would you prefer fewer oscillators and use more voices instead?

Eight hardware voices assigned to bass pedals? DSI will love you for it! ;)
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2015, 01:18:54 PM »
Just to understand it completely: How many notes do you need to play simultaneously on your bass pedals?

Would more oscillators in each voice - still dreaming about four analog and four digital oscillators in each voice - actually reduce your need to spend two voices on each note per left/right side? Or would you prefer fewer oscillators and use more voices instead?

Eight hardware voices assigned to bass pedals? DSI will love you for it! ;)

Four oscillators has not been enough, so I'd like to double the number with a second Evolver Desktop.  As for polyphony, I'd be happy with the ability to play three notes for triads, or even two notes, but this is all a bit of a dream right now.  I'd be content to have one immense and flexible sound for single notes.

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 01:20:09 PM »
The retirement still leaves us with 10 products:
Prophet-6, PRO 2, Tempest, Prophet 12 Keyboard & Desktop, Prophet '08 Keyboard & Desktop, Mopho x4, and the two Eurorack modules DSM 01 & 02.

There's plenty of room now for lots of mid-priced stuff. Remember: there haven't been any budget or smaller versions of the most recent hybrids (Prophet 12 & Pro 2) and the most recent analog design (Prophet-6). That could now be done without taking away too much from the flagship products.

I would expect, though, that most stripped down versions will find their way into the Eurorack world, namely as single elements of their flagship products. Because the Eurorack market is clearly a bigger thing now than it was back when all the desktop synths were introduced. What would make sense, for example, would be oscillator modules: one that contains the digital waveforms (incl. Superwaves) of the Prophet 12 & Pro 2, and one that contains two of the Prophet-6's VCOs.

As soon as the Mopho is gone, there'd be also room for another analog mono synth - maybe a single voice version of the Prophet-6.

So, in short, I would predict less desktop instruments and more Eurorack modules, especially now that even Roland and Moog joined the party, and a couple of downsized budget versions of the most recent flagships.

dslsynth

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 02:07:55 PM »
Four oscillators has not been enough, so I'd like to double the number with a second Evolver Desktop.  As for polyphony, I'd be happy with the ability to play three notes for triads, or even two notes, but this is all a bit of a dream right now.  I'd be content to have one immense and flexible sound for single notes.

Interesting! So I will add you to my informal "we need four analog oscillators and four digital oscillators" ranting list. ;-) A side effect of such an architecture is that it supports four voice paraphonic operation with stereo panned filters on a two voice module. Would be a cool little box.

To me it sounds like you need four or eight voices for your bass pedals. Quite impressive!

There's plenty of room now for lots of mid-priced stuff. [...]
So, in short, I would predict less desktop instruments and more Eurorack modules, especially now that even Roland and Moog joined the party, and a couple of downsized budget versions of the most recent flagships.

Well desktop modules are self contained synthesizer voices that would be way more expensive and drown in cable salad if realized with eurorack components. So they are different things each with their strengths and weaknesses. What I do hope is that DSI will make more eurorack modules but also make more affordable synthesizer modules when it makes sense for the users.

Instead of making a mono it would be way nicer if the voice architecture had layers and the box contained two voices which allows for more fuller sounding stereo panned filters. If I could afford it I would go for a four or possibly six voice module.

Another aspect of the one/two/four voice module market is that the user interface do cost money too. Both MEK and Pro2 happens to have a lot of user interface controls and (only) a single voice. Which is my argument for making duophonic rather than monophonic modules. Will see what happens!
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2015, 03:08:29 PM »
The modular format is a versatile and creative approach to synthesis, but it's difficult to go about it in a small way.  An independent modular system is a substantial investment.  In order to build up a system that was the equivalent of the Evolver/Prophet '08 voice architecture, you'd have to spend more money than I'd want to think about.  That's what I like about the modules - their versatile, compact, and very reasonably priced.  The power of, say, a Tetra is just immense, and yet you can hold it in the palm of your hand. 

In this day and age of mini keys and other miniature-sized musical devices, I'm surprised that the Eururack modulars have become so popular.  Sure, they're smaller than Moog or Synthesizers.com modulars, but they're still on the corpulent side.  I could imagine adding a few modules to a Pro 2, but otherwise going down the modular route seems impractical in my case.  Please, more modestly-priced modules.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 03:13:50 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2015, 03:21:14 PM »
In this day and age of mini keys and other tiny devices, I'm surprised that the Eururack modulars have become so popular.

Dunno. You can put lots of stuff into one or two modular cases, which will be more portable or less bulky than a keyboard instrument. Modules are put into the case in which they are going to be transported anyway. For any keyboard of desktop module you'd need an extra case.

Razmo

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2015, 03:27:45 PM »
Well... as I've stated in another thread about this discontinuation, notice that all the synths discontinued, are the monophonic ones... exept for Pro2, if you consider that monophonic...

Either Dave has a new line of one-voice synths available, or he's not going to do more monophonics stuff... you can speculate on that for a while...

But I'm certain it's not because of CEM chip supply... Dave has patented that SMD chip, and it's probably just about getting them made to get new ones... besides, the Mopho x4 and Prophet '08 are still in production... they're not discontinued, and they use the same chips.
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2015, 03:52:02 PM »
Dunno. You can put lots of stuff into one or two modular cases, which will be more portable or less bulky than a keyboard instrument. Modules are put into the case in which they are going to be transported anyway. For any keyboard of desktop module you'd need an extra case.

It would be interesting to calculate exactly what cost and space would be required to create a Eurorack system equivalent to a Tetra.

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2015, 04:06:36 PM »
It would be interesting to calculate exactly what cost and space would be required to create a Eurorack system equivalent to a Tetra.

Certainly a valid question. I hope I'm not coming across as if I'm arguing against self-contained modules, which I'm not (I won't part with my Evolver because of that). I only think that it's probably more attractive for a manufacturer to develop a couple of modules instead, especially since that market is still growing. But maybe I'm totally wrong in my assumption and we'll see a couple of new desktop modules from DSI soon. The last things I remember about those, though, are that there won't be a Prophet-6 module (which would be totally against the design philosophy WYSIWYG), nor a PRO 2 module (which would make things utterly complicated).
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 04:10:18 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2015, 04:26:17 PM »
Also, what the world doesn't need is another instrument with a sequencer. There are more than enough around now as part of a module, or as affordable standalone devices.

There are some loose ends, though, DSI could go back to: a true stereo signal path la Evolver, hybrid oscillator design, user modifiable/uploadable wavetables, ring modulation, and all the stuff that hasn't been done yet. I, for example, would also welcome something like an updated Wavestation like Razmo once suggested.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2015, 05:16:01 PM »
A new Wavestation would be very appealing; or else, a new Prophet VS purer than the Poly Evolver.  I think DSI should produce one genuine unapologetic all digital synthesizer - not a VA, and never mind DCOs or even DOs intended to imitate VCOs.  Just make one purely digital instrument. 

Razmo

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2015, 05:36:02 PM »
There will never be an "equivalent" of Tetra in Eurorack... not unless it had full MIDI SysEx control, which I hardly doubt we'll ever see in a Eurorack format... simply because it's pointless to include this in the Eurorack world.

Also... it would be quite an amount of modules involved, since Tetra is polyphonic and VERY complex... you'd need 4 oscillator modules (ech containing 2 oscillators and two sub oscillators), 4 VCF modules, 4 VCA modules, a Mixer module, 12 Envelope modules, 16 LFO modules, 16 sequencer modules plus all the "loose bits and pieces" ... of course you could combine some of these into single modules, but in the end it would be a bit circumstancial, and I bet; a hell of a lot more expensive than the module.

Instead it could be done in a single module with all included... just a full Tetra, but with added electronics for routing all the above connections out to the Eurorack world... but that again would be more expensive than just the module... all those DAC's'n'ADC's needed to do this would be rather pricey I believe.

I seriously hope that DSI will keep making modules, keyboards and rack modules in addition to their new line of Eurorack stuff....
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2015, 06:11:09 PM »
There will never be an "equivalent" of Tetra in Eurorack... not unless it had full MIDI SysEx control, which I hardly doubt we'll ever see in a Eurorack format... simply because it's pointless to include this in the Eurorack world.

Also... it would be quite an amount of modules involved, since Tetra is polyphonic and VERY complex... you'd need 4 oscillator modules (ech containing 2 oscillators and two sub oscillators), 4 VCF modules, 4 VCA modules, a Mixer module, 12 Envelope modules, 16 LFO modules, 16 sequencer modules plus all the "loose bits and pieces" ... of course you could combine some of these into single modules, but in the end it would be a bit circumstancial, and I bet; a hell of a lot more expensive than the module.

Instead it could be done in a single module with all included... just a full Tetra, but with added electronics for routing all the above connections out to the Eurorack world... but that again would be more expensive than just the module... all those DAC's'n'ADC's needed to do this would be rather pricey I believe.

Right, and that was my point.  Those little DSI desktop modules are exceptional for all sorts of reasons.  The synthesizer world will have a hole in it without them.

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2015, 05:11:29 AM »
A shame to see the Evolver go.

Maybe DSI are going to follow the current trend of releasing some little synths with mini keys.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2015, 06:20:35 AM »
A shame to see the Evolver go.

Maybe DSI are going to follow the current trend of releasing some little synths with mini keys.

Oh...now that was unnecessarily cruel. 

I hope I'm not nave in thinking that - with the exception of the Eurorack modules - DSI doesn't follow current trends; rather, they tend to set them.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 08:05:01 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2015, 09:57:49 AM »
The thing is there is a market there.

There are loads of youngsters with a laptop running FL Studio/Live/Bitwig. A little synth to sit by their laptop with little keys to enter notes into a repeating loop and a few knobs to twiddle is what they are after, otherwise people might think they are just surfing the net!

I think there is space for DSI to produce the more professional line of synths (the prophets) and another budget line. After a few years hopefully those budget users will then move up a level.

The existing modules required another controller, a few mini keys gets rid of that obstacle.

Pym

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2015, 11:27:48 AM »
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Maybe DSI are going to follow the current trend of releasing some little synths with mini keys.
Sequential

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2015, 11:46:16 AM »
Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

dslsynth

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2015, 11:49:54 AM »
No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

We all love you for that response, Pym! Oh and that sounds like a five voice! ;)

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Re: Sequential Circuits
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2015, 12:04:05 PM »
Haha! Still no word on micro keys...