Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2023, 06:06:55 AM »
I own the P6 and the OB 6 and while they each of course have a distinct charm, I still often question if I really need both of them, especially since I'm mostly a hobbyist - and space is at a premium in my little bedroom studio. But when I try to decide which I'd part with, I just can't decide.
In comes the Trigon! As soon as I found out the filter is switchable between 2 and 4 pole modes, a light bulb went off: could this single synth essentially replace both of the others? I know it's a different filter from either, and again, it too has it's own sound, but c'mon. They're all kinda varied flavors of the same basic form factor and architecture.
Could the 4 pole mode basically cover P6 territory while the 2 pole mode covers OB 6 territory, recognizing there are some differences?
I know not many have had their hands on one yet since it's so new, but if anyone has experience with all three, or if you want to just join in the totally unsubstantiated conjecture like I'm doing, I'd love to hear from you. :)

One thing to consider is sometimes there is a huge amount of airtime given to the differences between synths - the areas they can go to which other synths can't - rather than shared ground. Even with the P6 and OB6, of course there are differences and if you dive full into 'Oberheim' territory on the OB6 you will find things the P6 can't do, and vice versa. However, the shared ground between them is quote huge - even if their filters are so different. So I would take that into consideration - and try to explore how much shared ground there is between the Trigon and those two. I should imagine that the Trigon actually has even more shared ground with both the P6 and the OB6 (due to the filter options) whilst also sharing much of the same architecture. Further it has that third oscillator which gives you even more options too. So in summary - are there aspects really specific to the P6 and OB6 which you would really miss which you perhps couldn't cover with the Trigon?

Also, if you are struggling for space going down to one synth could be the answer. I know some folk who really believe that you don't need more than one polysynth, and that you can get 99% of what you want through good programming, effects etc. So if you can believe you can do that then why not?

Another thing to think about too - would you miss having two synths playing in parallel? Is this something you utilise a lot, or do you tend to record etc with one synth at a time? If the former you may want to think about that.

Lastly, I will say what I always say to anyone considering buying a new synth - if you do get the chance to try one, does it inspire you? Does it 'feel' right? This is not something that is important to everyone mind - but for me personally I tend to be much more creative with instruments (not just synths) which feel right somehow. That's really woolly I know, and probably not well described - but I hope it makes sense in some way!

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2023, 07:27:02 AM »
Probably.

But why do manufacturers persist with keyboards? How many keyboards can we accommodate! Desktops are surely the way forward - at the end of this particular 'golden era' of synths?

I have to strongly disagree. I think it's great to be offered both. For me personally, I much prefer having a standalone instrument I can take with me to a practice, a gig or just a friend's house for a jam!

I’d go a step further, I really wish they’d offer their keyboards in a third variant with at least a 61-key keyboard. The main reason I never bought any of the 6 series is due to the short keyboard. And no, I don’t really want to hook up a desktop to a master keyboard if at all possible, I’d like a self-contained instrument.

Yeah. I get that those white and black things are convenient for data entry to the synth but the £700 premium each time plus the space required is my issue. The synth itself is complete. Fwiw, I think the Trigon project could have been a bit more radical.

I do piano-style playing as opposed to any kind of sequenced stuff so for me the extra keys are essential. That’s why I was suggesting they make 3 versions: a module, a 4-octave keyboard and a 5- or 6-octave keyboard. That way users have a choice. There are companies who do this or almost this such as Korg (Prologue), Modal (Cobalt and Argon), ASM (Hydrasynth). Bit of market research to determine likely numbers of sales on each version and it’d be win-win for everyone.

LPF83

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Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2023, 07:56:03 AM »
I do piano-style playing as opposed to any kind of sequenced stuff so for me the extra keys are essential. That’s why I was suggesting they make 3 versions: a module, a 4-octave keyboard and a 5- or 6-octave keyboard. That way users have a choice. There are companies who do this or almost this such as Korg (Prologue), Modal (Cobalt and Argon), ASM (Hydrasynth). Bit of market research to determine likely numbers of sales on each version and it’d be win-win for everyone.

I would expect to see the Trigon6 eventually follow the P6 and OB6 with a desktop module in the $2299 price range.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC


LPF83

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Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2023, 03:35:35 PM »
[...video...]

I was just getting ready to post this, a very timely post considering the recent discussion about snappiness of bass on ladder filters and whether the Trigon 6 would be able to match the P6 or OB-6 in this regard.  Check out the bass comparison at the 11 minute mark.

Overall I think the Trigon 6 is a great sounding synth, but the OB-X8 remains more on my immediate radar.  I feel there is less overlap between the Prophet 6 and OB-6, they are synths that feel similar but sound very different.  The OB-6 is so full of character, and the filter always makes itself known, but played next to the Prophet 6 or Prophet 10 it always feels a bit less versatile in tone.  The Trigon 6 seems to have a bit more Prophet-like versatility, from what I've heard in sound demos.

Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2023, 05:03:14 PM »
As someone who's owned a Prophet 6, 2 OB-6's a Prophet 10 (still got) and a Trigon 6.. the Trigon is the punchiest of the '6' voicers by far. I would suggest a massive amount of 'I don't have that new synth so I'll talk it down vs what I already have' is going on.

Absolute nonsense.

For a start the P6 I had was gutless, utterly gutless, it sounded flat and as far from punchy as I could imagine. My Prophet 10 doing a proper bass sound (doesn't have to be in unison) is immense, it's extremely 'moog like' in the attack and has a ton of depth to the sound (even without a sub osc). Prophet 6 sounds a lot weaker on bass.

Ob6? Love it.. but not for bass, it can do bassy sounds but it NEVER really 'punches', it's much better up the other end, if the Prophet 6 had more guts it would probably 'beat' the OB-6 on bass (technically it does due to the 4 pole filter and more precise VCOs/tone where OB-6 is more airy/fibrous). Either way, neither are bass monsters and both pale next to my Prophet 10 or even my Prologue 16 (which is very good considering it's also a 16 voice poly).

So.. where does Trigon fit it? Hands down the best at bass, not only does it IMMEDIATELY have more low end in a single osc vs the other 2 6's it has a much easier ability to sculpt with the variable 3 osc that isn't just a 'dumb sub osc'. But even just 1 vs 1 osc or 2 oscs the Trigon out punches P6 and Ob6 massively, it has a proper weighty rounded punchy feel, a sound I've rarely heard in modern mass produced polysynths. Most of them flake out when pushed for bass.

Obv resonance up and bass thins (use feedback to get some back) but for the kind of bass I'm talking about I don't need much, if any, resonance.

Further and back on main topic, generally vs Prophet 6 and OB-6 the Trigon 6 is most definitely my favourite. I do LOVE the OB-6 for what it does well, you know it when you hear it, but for the other 90% of what you use an analog for it's just 'OK' vs the Trigon which is massively more flexible, inherently more 'analog' sounding with some real heft to it, and overall - outside of the special OB-6 filter modes that are only needed now and again for me - low pass to low pass, the Trigon filter is MUCH more exciting both in its 4 pole mode (it doesn't get dull and lost like the Prophet 6 ) and in 2 pole mode where it's, again inherently, far less 'wispy' and 'samey' as the OB-6.

Trigon 6 is the best of the 6's - Prophet 6 is the worst (many people all over the net have spoken about how they found the P6 underwhelming in terms of being a VCO analog poly), to me the Trigon sounds and reacts (bites/pushes/moves air) exactly like I'd hoped the P6 would when I got one many years back. Prophet 10 also has a killer sound, much better than P6 , but while it's awesome at snappy defined bass, the Trigon has a lot more going on to do other kinds of basses that sound more textured and thicker than the P10 in straight 10 voice mode (unison is awesome on P10 though), for poly type basses with sequences/arps etc the Trigon excells note-to-note with it's punchy rounded sound and 'alive' flavour coming through from the filter/drive/feedback in ways the OB-6 just doesn't even begin to compete with (here it sounds pretty but definitely flatter and lacking on the lows) and the P6 is, as said, just kinda gutless and somewhat 'static' for an analog synth.

I've had some real moogs to compare snap/punch/bass too (inc slim phatty and sub 37 and subsequent 37 - not the top of the tree but they are pretty punchy and trigon is pretty much up there with them in that respect - ob6 and p6 don't' stand a chance)

I've also had the Rev 2 (08), before I had any of these others and found it awful. The filter is scratchy, the oscs are generic and thin and the programming tedious (having to.. I mean HAVING to put movement into the DCOs with a mod slot or 2 everytime you make a sound just to wake it up gets old) and the tone is overall cold, tinny and cheap sounding (no surprise given the chips used which have very few fans on the net). There's many owners who claim to LOVE the Prophet 08/rev 2, but there's far more Ex -owners who hated the general tone of it. It in no way compares even to the Prophet 6 let alone the OB-6 and certainly NOT the Trigon 6 which is at the top of the tree tone wise from sequential (along with Prophet rev4 and OB-X8)

That said, make your own mind up but this is my honest and no-holds-barred experience of all these synths.

OB-6 and Trigon 6 are both great, but Trigon 6 is a LOT harder to get bored with, has all the flexibility of the P6 and then some with the 4/2 pole option, has a much viby-er filter, fatter sounding base tone/oscs AND also addresses drawbacks on the other 2 synths (namely - finally a real kind of 2nd LFO/polymod while still allowing 2 VCOs) and any shape sub you like to choose rather than just square or triangle like on the other 2, and the 2/4 pole option which drove me nuts on the other 2 lacking those options (I'd much rather forgoe the HPF or the OB-6s notch/bandpass to get 2/4 pole options on all synths... but on the Prophet rev2 it's a moot point that it has that as it sounds lacklustre anyway and had to be removed from all my recordings in progress and replaced with other synths).

As for can it replace the other 2? Hoodoo I think said it right, IF you can forgoe what the other 2 do especially then yes, imo the Trigon is the best of both worlds (or as near as you can get as we only have these 3 to choose from in this case), the OB-6 is def more 'special' than P6 and it's hard to get quite THAT sound or that special filter for those tricks, but the P6 is as generic as it comes and EASILY replaced by Trigon which eats it for breakfast. I do like Prophet tones but it sounds way more 'real' in my P10 rev 4 than it ever did on P6, I don't care for the HP/BP mode but you might? But even then it's still sub-par tone wise for me, lacking life and energy/presence which is why I let it go a long time back with no regret.

OB-6 style sounds can be reached on Trigon 6 far easier than on P6 due to both the 2 pole filter option AND the more 'swimmy' VCOS (everyone knows Ob-6 felt looser and more vibey to play than the over-controlled P6 even after vintage knob update) so you can get maybe half of what OB-6 does well on a Trigon (different tonality though but imo even nicer than the same old over done OBIE tone) and ALL of the bread and butter stuff from P6 and then... a massive range of stuff only Trigon can possibly do due to its extras, and if you had to have just one yes I think T6 is the best all round by far and sounds the most powerful and 'big analog' of the 3. Trigon 6 nails (modern) big analog, OB-6 hints at big analog (but sometimes misses the mark when you need more oomph and guts) and P6 completely fails at it 99.9999% of the time).. and rev 2 is not even in the same league at all. Don't let spec sway you.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 05:22:55 PM by SynthHead »
Trigon-6 (Keyboard) | Prophet 10 Rev 4 (gone) | OB-6 (gone)

Kja

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2023, 05:32:13 AM »
Calling a p6 gutless compared to the trigon is like calling a music easel gutless compared to a minimoog... Yes, but really not the point. Anybody playing them together can tell they all sound different, none of them "destroy" any other of them.. find the one that speaks to you is the best advice, they all have tons of sounds that only they can do. Ignore all the nonsense, some get so into the my synth is better then yours that it becomes somewhat delusional.

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2024, 06:23:52 AM »
Having owned and used all those prophets and all the other mentioned synths, it's as far from 'delusional' as you can get and based on sonic FACTS. Recorded and easy to reference facts in my own recordings going back years.

That is not to say Prophet 6 is completely useless, it's a cool synth with some nice Prophety tones, it just doesn't quite sound as vibrant/present/rich or textured as the OB-6 or Trigon 6.

Jexus's post on it: (from https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2023/07/03/shut-up-play-the-sequential-trigon-6-synthesizer/)

Quote
“When I actually spent some good amount of time with my Trigon, the nerd in me started to appreciate all the nuances that otherwise might have seemed too negligible for the logical, outside observer. The end result (or fruit) of the idea behind this synth is distinct enough to justify the Trigon-6 becoming a separate, independent product.

The transistor ladder filter is one thing, but the feedback / drive block is as important for defining and understanding this instrument, because this is the door / passage into a territory not usually associated with Sequential’s poly-synths. Experimenting with the levels on the Trigon-6 lets us create sounds with flavors reminiscent of Polivoks or Korg Prologue – what I mean by that is all things rusty, toxic and screaming. Of course in a hi-fi version;)

That’s why I like the overall sound & character of the Trigon-6 better than the sound of the Prophet-6. The Trigon has a little bit more texture, it can be softer and more organic-sounding, but it can also be more venomous than the Prophet. Do I like the sound of the Trigon-6 better than OB-6? I am tempted to say no, because the OB-6 is a synth with even more character and grit in its tone, but I have to be honest with myself and anybody who’s reading this (especially if you’re about to make a purchase decision) – the OB-6 may create a bigger “wow effect” in the mind of the first-time listener or the grit-lover, but it’s the Trigon-6 that may actually be used more frequently in music-making due to its more streamlined, laid-back timbre. That’s why it may seem more versatile, despite the fact that the OB-6 has a richer filter section (Trigon has just LPF, whereas OB-6 has LP, HP, BP and notch).”

So he says T6 has more bite and can be more venomous vs P6? Have you got a Trigon 6? Have you used one (properly and for a good amount of time not just demoing in a store which counts for almost nothing)? If so you'd understand everything is relative. Alone and if P6 is your only point of reference then perhaps you'd not think of it as 'gutless', but next to a Trigon-6 it certainly comes over that way on similar sounds. My P6 always sounded small, distant and constrained, like it wanted to break out and become a real VCO analog synth, if only it could, it never sounded organic, never felt 'present' (even next to old DCO synths like JX-3P I had at the time), it was nice, it makes cool sounds, yes.. and it's much nicer than the Rev 2 or any hybrid plastic sounding nonsense synths out there, but, again, next to OB-6 and Trigon-6 it sounds, somewhat, like the poor relation sonically. It doesn't sing, it doesn't punch (properly), it doesn't shake the room, it doesn't soar, it's just there.

Alone... sure it's cool, the thread is asking about T6 vs it/OB-6 not a solitary appraisal without any other reference.

That said, even before I had the OB-6 or T6, back when I only had the P6 from the range (2016 or so iirc) I just felt underwhelmed by it, it never delievered what I thought a Prophet or even a VCO poly should (my Prologue 16 sounded way more alive and textured and my Prophet 10 eventually showed how it should be done).

Now I don't know if they went back and improved the hardware/voicing/VCAs or whatever in all these years (some say they did but it sounds like BS to me) in which case we're not comparing the same synth, but those early years P6's were definitely stiffer, more constrained and dull sounding vs the OB-6 and Trigon-6.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2024, 06:25:39 AM by SynthHead »
Trigon-6 (Keyboard) | Prophet 10 Rev 4 (gone) | OB-6 (gone)

Re: Could the Trigon replace both the P6 and OB 6?
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2024, 12:49:22 PM »
Having owned and used all those prophets and all the other mentioned synths, it's as far from 'delusional' as you can get and based on sonic FACTS. Recorded and easy to reference facts in my own recordings going back years.

That is not to say Prophet 6 is completely useless, it's a cool synth with some nice Prophety tones, it just doesn't quite sound as vibrant/present/rich or textured as the OB-6 or Trigon 6.

Jexus's post on it: (from https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2023/07/03/shut-up-play-the-sequential-trigon-6-synthesizer/)

Quote
“When I actually spent some good amount of time with my Trigon, the nerd in me started to appreciate all the nuances that otherwise might have seemed too negligible for the logical, outside observer. The end result (or fruit) of the idea behind this synth is distinct enough to justify the Trigon-6 becoming a separate, independent product.

The transistor ladder filter is one thing, but the feedback / drive block is as important for defining and understanding this instrument, because this is the door / passage into a territory not usually associated with Sequential’s poly-synths. Experimenting with the levels on the Trigon-6 lets us create sounds with flavors reminiscent of Polivoks or Korg Prologue – what I mean by that is all things rusty, toxic and screaming. Of course in a hi-fi version;)

That’s why I like the overall sound & character of the Trigon-6 better than the sound of the Prophet-6. The Trigon has a little bit more texture, it can be softer and more organic-sounding, but it can also be more venomous than the Prophet. Do I like the sound of the Trigon-6 better than OB-6? I am tempted to say no, because the OB-6 is a synth with even more character and grit in its tone, but I have to be honest with myself and anybody who’s reading this (especially if you’re about to make a purchase decision) – the OB-6 may create a bigger “wow effect” in the mind of the first-time listener or the grit-lover, but it’s the Trigon-6 that may actually be used more frequently in music-making due to its more streamlined, laid-back timbre. That’s why it may seem more versatile, despite the fact that the OB-6 has a richer filter section (Trigon has just LPF, whereas OB-6 has LP, HP, BP and notch).”

So he says T6 has more bite and can be more venomous vs P6? Have you got a Trigon 6? Have you used one (properly and for a good amount of time not just demoing in a store which counts for almost nothing)? If so you'd understand everything is relative. Alone and if P6 is your only point of reference then perhaps you'd not think of it as 'gutless', but next to a Trigon-6 it certainly comes over that way on similar sounds. My P6 always sounded small, distant and constrained, like it wanted to break out and become a real VCO analog synth, if only it could, it never sounded organic, never felt 'present' (even next to old DCO synths like JX-3P I had at the time), it was nice, it makes cool sounds, yes.. and it's much nicer than the Rev 2 or any hybrid plastic sounding nonsense synths out there, but, again, next to OB-6 and Trigon-6 it sounds, somewhat, like the poor relation sonically. It doesn't sing, it doesn't punch (properly), it doesn't shake the room, it doesn't soar, it's just there.

Alone... sure it's cool, the thread is asking about T6 vs it/OB-6 not a solitary appraisal without any other reference.

That said, even before I had the OB-6 or T6, back when I only had the P6 from the range (2016 or so iirc) I just felt underwhelmed by it, it never delievered what I thought a Prophet or even a VCO poly should (my Prologue 16 sounded way more alive and textured and my Prophet 10 eventually showed how it should be done).

Now I don't know if they went back and improved the hardware/voicing/VCAs or whatever in all these years (some say they did but it sounds like BS to me) in which case we're not comparing the same synth, but those early years P6's were definitely stiffer, more constrained and dull sounding vs the OB-6 and Trigon-6.

Your ongoing commitment to pointing out your dislike the Prophet 6 is impressive, it shall one day be said!

I bought a Trigon with the notion I'd sell my Prophet 6 to cover the cost of the former. In a twist, though, the Trigon only made me appreciate the Prophet 6 all the more, even as it meant I was out a bunch of money. The two synths have proved to be quite complimentary to each other. The subtleties of the P6 balancing well with the more relentless vibe of the Trigon. What a time to be alive and what fab gear we have to grumble about!