Prophet 6 vs OB-6

[smithymicky1]

"Wow, that was great! Well done on that track, I loved the sound design
That long low note near the end that comes in at about 3:01, was that done with the OB-6?
One thing that I have been wondering, when people talk about that Oberheim signature sound that can be heard on the OB-6, is that the buzz sound that I would have heard in several OB-6 demos which is kind of like a permanent sawtooth wave sound? Can the OB-6 make sounds without that slight buzz to it?"



Thank you!  You nailed it: that long low note that comes in at around 3:01 is indeed from the OB-6.   

That sound that you describe, the one which differentiates the OB-6 from the P-6 derives mostly from the mechanics of the oscillators and the 2-pole, 12dB per octave filter.  That type of filter allows more frequencies above the cutoff point to slip through. This makes it easier to get that 'buzzy' or 'gritty' sound if you wish. However, the synth is more than capable of making sounds that are not in that vein.

  Thanks for making more sense of that for me!
So for making high pitch 'non-buzzy' sounds like at the 2:00 mark of this prophet 6 video, would the OB-6 be in with a chance?

[Matthew John]

"Wow, that was great! Well done on that track, I loved the sound design
That long low note near the end that comes in at about 3:01, was that done with the OB-6?
One thing that I have been wondering, when people talk about that Oberheim signature sound that can be heard on the OB-6, is that the buzz sound that I would have heard in several OB-6 demos which is kind of like a permanent sawtooth wave sound? Can the OB-6 make sounds without that slight buzz to it?"



Thank you!  You nailed it: that long low note that comes in at around 3:01 is indeed from the OB-6.   

That sound that you describe, the one which differentiates the OB-6 from the P-6 derives mostly from the mechanics of the oscillators and the 2-pole, 12dB per octave filter.  That type of filter allows more frequencies above the cutoff point to slip through. This makes it easier to get that 'buzzy' or 'gritty' sound if you wish. However, the synth is more than capable of making sounds that are not in that vein.

  Thanks for making more sense of that for me!
So for making high pitch 'non-buzzy' sounds like at the 2:00 mark of this prophet 6 video, would the OB-6 be in with a chance?

Is the the video to which you refer my video or some other in a link?

[smithymicky1]

"Wow, that was great! Well done on that track, I loved the sound design
That long low note near the end that comes in at about 3:01, was that done with the OB-6?
One thing that I have been wondering, when people talk about that Oberheim signature sound that can be heard on the OB-6, is that the buzz sound that I would have heard in several OB-6 demos which is kind of like a permanent sawtooth wave sound? Can the OB-6 make sounds without that slight buzz to it?"



Thank you!  You nailed it: that long low note that comes in at around 3:01 is indeed from the OB-6.   

That sound that you describe, the one which differentiates the OB-6 from the P-6 derives mostly from the mechanics of the oscillators and the 2-pole, 12dB per octave filter.  That type of filter allows more frequencies above the cutoff point to slip through. This makes it easier to get that 'buzzy' or 'gritty' sound if you wish. However, the synth is more than capable of making sounds that are not in that vein.

  Thanks for making more sense of that for me!
So for making high pitch 'non-buzzy' sounds like at the 2:00 mark of this prophet 6 video, would the OB-6 be in with a chance?

Is the the video to which you refer my video or some other in a link?

Oops, my bad! Forgot to link!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtjcMp2tqpc

[Matthew John]

"Wow, that was great! Well done on that track, I loved the sound design
That long low note near the end that comes in at about 3:01, was that done with the OB-6?
One thing that I have been wondering, when people talk about that Oberheim signature sound that can be heard on the OB-6, is that the buzz sound that I would have heard in several OB-6 demos which is kind of like a permanent sawtooth wave sound? Can the OB-6 make sounds without that slight buzz to it?"



Thank you!  You nailed it: that long low note that comes in at around 3:01 is indeed from the OB-6.   

That sound that you describe, the one which differentiates the OB-6 from the P-6 derives mostly from the mechanics of the oscillators and the 2-pole, 12dB per octave filter.  That type of filter allows more frequencies above the cutoff point to slip through. This makes it easier to get that 'buzzy' or 'gritty' sound if you wish. However, the synth is more than capable of making sounds that are not in that vein.

  Thanks for making more sense of that for me!
So for making high pitch 'non-buzzy' sounds like at the 2:00 mark of this prophet 6 video, would the OB-6 be in with a chance?

Is the the video to which you refer my video or some other in a link?

Oops, my bad! Forgot to link!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtjcMp2tqpc

I think it's possible to get a sound like that with the OB-6. But keep in mind that the sound to which you refer contains a lot of fx (both delay and reverb), and such fx can change the basic analog sound considerably.

I usually begin building a sound by turning off the onboard fx and start with the 'basic preset' (on the OB-6 it means pressing the MANUAL and WRITE buttons).   This way I can get a basic idea of genuine analog character first.  Once I get in the ballpark of the sound I am after, I experiment with onboard fx and also fx in my DAW and then decide which I like better (or maybe I chose no fx depending on the task).

[Sacred Synthesis]

Here's a major contribution to the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKtL1nb_x1M

[Paul Dither]

Here's a major contribution to the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKtL1nb_x1M

Nice video, thanks for sharing!

When he plays them both in the end, it really shows that they are complementary.

The rest is basically a matter of taste and needs, as simple as that. I'm always tempted to say that the sound of the OB-6 has that particular SEM filter veil, althouh that's a little unfair, as one could probably say the same thing about the 24 dB filter of the Prophet-6. And of course the filter of the OB-6 stands out more in general because it's not as widely spread as all the variations of a 24 dB lowpass filter that are available out there.

However, the impression that the SEM filter character seems to stand out all the time, no matter whether you program vintage pads or more experimental patches, may be the main reason why the Prophet-6 appears to be applicable in more universal ways. In this video at least, it seems like the Prophet-6 is capable of covering a broader sonic palette.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I got a lot out of that video.  The music was good and the audio quality excellent, but I focused more on the immediate side-by-side comparisons.  The two instruments do sound fairly different from each other.  The OB-6 has an easily recognizable filter with a frothiness over the top.  The Prophet-6 belongs more to the classic analog domain, with a consistently warmer slightly darker tone, and it's the sound I far preferred throughout the video. 

[mjaestewart]

So, I've also owned both the P6 and the OB-6. Here is my analysis between these two lovely synths.

I first owned the P6 due to its heritage, history, and known sonic waves that takes you back to the 70s-80s era. The P6 does sound gorgeous and provides a lot of versatility to manipulate sound waves. But here is where the P6 fell short with me.

First, I could not connect with the sound, emotionally. This is a where most of people's creativity comes from in terms of music. I now understand and feel the way other P6 owners felt. I tried loving the P6, but the more I chased it the more she was running from me.

Second, the sound. It's not dry, it's not loud and in-your-face, but just sits in the middle. In an odd middle too. It's almost as if the P6 sound doesn't know where to fit in. It tries, but you're constantly fighting the sound to get it finessed in order to fit into mixes. And it gets frustrating fighting the sounds when it should be working with you effortlessly.

Third, the QC issues with the knobs. Yes, they are "wonkie" when you turn them. Yes, the knobs are "loose" to "extremely loose" all over the board. I even posted a video on youtube demonstrating the inconsistency in knobs across the board. This is a major concern for me as it is a known problem and I'm not sure how the knobs will last decades down the road. There should be consistency and reliability in a $3K synth and I felt the P6 fell short in that area.

However, I love the wood all around the P6! It's much better than the OB-6 metal font piece. The OB-6 should have incorporated a wood piece across the bottom with the Tom Oberheim signature engraved on the right side and the OB-6 logo engraved on the left side. Sure, this would have been a bit more money. But the OB-6 is a ONE TIME hybrid masterpiece with the holy grail of synth heads collaborating. This synth should have gone beyond normal into something special! This is not a normal or average synth! And Dave Smith should have recognized that!

Now, onto the OB-6.......

The reason behind me picking up the OB-6 is because of ALL the raving reviews that are out there claiming, in its own way, much better than the P6. So, I battled myself daily, lost sleep, prowled YouTube every minute of every day. I became so obsessed it was ridiculous. Not good being a GearSlut. Anyway, I went to Guitar Center, tried it out, couldn't really tell at the store with the crap monitors connected to it, so I ended up bringing it home.

First, I am not a fan of the blue stripes and the new layout. However, the blue stripes grew on me. I now love the layout, knobs, and the stripes on the OB-6 much more than the P6. The OB-6 I feel, in many ways, should have been the P6 (especially with the knobs and logical layout). Maybe not from a sound perspective, but definitely with the layout of the effects, filters, etc. If you look at the Prophet~5, then you'll notice the P6 has the same knobs, but skinnier. I think Dave Smith should have kept the knobs thicker on the P6.

Secondly, the sounds. Wow! Talk about not chasing after the girl that always rejects you (P6). The OB-6 is soooooo inviting. The sounds connect with me on an emotional level. So much so that I am very inspired with this synth. I couldn't say the same about the P6. The sounds can either stand out in a mix of other sounds, sit in the middle, or be tucked behind other sounds. It truly has an identity in my music. It's not the oddball trying to fit-in. The sounds work with me when programming and not against me. It's truly a personal connection being made between me and the synth. NEVER had that with the P6 (actually made me sad).

Also, the sounds on the OB-6 can be best described as: The P6 is the synth that rides the wave or hides under the wave, while the OB-6 is the synth to either disrupt the waves, ride with the waves, or PUNCH through the waves.

Third, KNOWING the music your making really makes a difference on choosing the P6 or the OB-6. From my take, and experience, the OB-6 is more for contemporary EDM, trance, psychedelic, somewhat relaxed, pop, hip-hop, r&b, soft rock, funk, alternative, and similar genres. The P6 is more geared towards psychadelic, relaxed, funk, movie-based music, and similar genres.

I feel that I can do more with the OB-6 because of its ability to have an identity within the music (regardless of genre). The P6 is much darker, which is fine in its own respect, but it does not provide the sonic waves to really get the crowd moving as a single instrument (which I think a lot of people expect when buying a P6 and contributes to the connection not being made between the P6 and its owner). Put it this way, the OB-6 is more for upbeat music that will keep you wanting more. Interesting to the ears. The sounds have more vibrant emotions. Whereas the P6 is more for mellowed out music that can get a bit repetitive or boring after some time.

It's important to know your music type and why you need or want the synth. Based on my stressful, anxious, experience with these two amazing synths this is why I chose the OB-6 as my keeper. The P6 has a place, but I believe it has its own respective place within music. If I was able to justify keeping the P6 with the OB-6 then I would've had an awesome setup. But the justification wasn't there so I got rid of the P6 for NOW..... Maybe I'll rethink down the line. But I think the OB-6 could be better paired with the Arturia MatrixBrute or another mono/para synth without that Dave Smith sound.

Would the P6 compliment the OB-6? Absolutely! Two very different sounds that target very different parts of a soundtrack. But if you can justify the price of having both, then have at it!

I hope this proves useful to some of you out there banging your heads around this important, but personal, decision. What moved me the most into getting the OB-6 was someone that stated, "The OB-6 can take you places that the P6 cannot, but the OB-6 can go to every place the P6 can." This was the motivating factor (plus, who doesn't want the best of both worlds?!?).

Take care! And good luck with your decision!

[LoboLives]

For me it's the P6. It just seems more versatile in sonic capabilities. The OB6 is going to sound like the OB6. Not that it's a bad thing but it's always going to have a bit of fizz or buzz to it. I would actually get the Two Voice Pro over the OB6 for a number of reasons but I think mostly because the Oberheim OBXa is everyone's "go to" when they think of the Oberheim sound. I believe that wasn't SEM based and it relied on the Curtis filter so that makes the Prophet 08 and even Prophet REV2 actually closer to that OBXa sound. Plus the OBXa had split and layer capabilities which the OB6 doesn't have.

It really just depends on what sound you are after. For me, I do soundtrack oriented synth stuff and looking at the classic soundtracks I love, most of the time they are always using a Prophet. Even with some that had Oberheims involved there's always the Prophet next to it.

There were other synths used in most of these but the ones that only had the Prophet I've put a * beside.

John Carpenter and Allan Howarth: The Fog, Escape From New York, Halloween 2, Halloween 3, Christine, Big Trouble In Little China, Prince Of Darkness and They Live-Prophet 5 and Prophet 10. (The last 3 films also had an Oberheim 4 voice)

Allan Howarth: Lost Empire and Retribution-Prophet 5 and Prophet 10.

John Harrison: Creepshow* and Day Of The Dead-Prophet 5

Tim Krog: The Boogeyman-Prophet 5 AND Oberheim 8 voice modular

Jay Chattaway: Maniac-Prophet 5 AND Oberheim (not sure which)

Joseph LoDuca: Evil Dead-Prophet 5*

Howard Shore: Scanners-Prophet 5

Brad Fiedel: The Terminator-Prophet 10 (and Oberheim OBXa)

_______________________________________________________________

Now as far as soundtracks with the Oberheim being the main synth with no Prophet.

Queen: Flash Gordon soundtrack-Oberheim OBXa*

Rob Walsh: Revenge Of The Ninja-Oberheim OBXa*

Stephen Horelick: Madman-Oberheim 4 Voice

Joe Renzetti: The Exterminator-Oberheim OBX*

Paul Herzog: Bloodsport and Kickboxer-Oberheim OB-8

Charles Bernstein-Nightmare On Elm Street-OBX

And with those Oberheim based scores there's a lot more going on in them (live orchestras, guitars, live bands, other synths, so it's more for complimenting rather than leading.).

Even in a lot of New Wave/Progressive stuff like Gabriel, Collins...it's the Prophet. The Oberheim sound is much more American and rock/pop oriented, to be played within a live band context as it cuts through the mix (Think JUMP by Van Halen (OBXa) or Don't You Forget About Me by Simple Minds (OBXa and Jupiter .

It really just depends on the situation and what sound you are going for. For me I'll stick with the Prophet and eventually I'll get the Oberheim Two Voice Pro for bass sounds and sequences. I can get to the OB6 sound with the Prophet with a little tweaking but like I said the OB6 is always going to sound like the OB6.

[mjaestewart]

Agreed. If you're doing movie soundtracks then IMHO the Prophet~6 fits that scope perfectly. Also, it depends on one's connection with the instrument. If I connect, personally, to an instrument then I can make it fit in anywhere. There are musicians that can fit a fart noise into a soundtrack and make it sound good. It just depends on the person.

I was wondering tis question.... What is Dave Smith's favorite instrument between the OB-6 and the Prophet~6?

Personally, after watching his interviews releasing both the P6 and the OB-6 at NAMM it appears that Dave Smith became OVERLY excited about the OB-6 and starts playing it on-the-spot. That's just an observation I made. He didn't seem AS excited about the P6 for some reason and didn't play it on-the-spot like he did the OB-6. Just something I found interesting.

Honestly, I would love to have the P6 coupled with the OB-6 at some point in the future. Learning either of these synths will limit the learning curve when adding the other since they're so much alike from a features perspective. Again, I think the OB-6 has more contemporary sounds out-of-the-box whereas the P6 requires finesse to get more contemporary sounds.

Another interesting take is the versatility. I find that both instruments are very versatile. I can use the OB-6 for practically anything since it has a decent High, Mid, and Low range. However, I find that the P6 is limited to the High to Mid range which makes it a less versatile when needing lows. I mean, the OB-6 is no Moog when it comes to lows, but it can get really close.

I agree with most who insist none of these synths is better than the other. It all depends on needs. And, myself, along with most that chime-in, connect most with the OB-6.

[coyote14]

This is my (short) story about both keyboards. I have started with OB6, and had recently a Prophet 6 to make some sound design works on it. I already preferred OB6, but I must admit the Prophet 6 is the one on which I go naturally for my "everday " use. Prophet 6 is more straightforward, efficient, while OB6 is more vintage and original to my ears.

I will keep the OB6, because it is a better complement to my roland Jupiter 8.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Another excellent comparison video (Skip to 5:40 to get to the sounds.):

https://youtu.be/KtoitoPoMcQ

[Hector Space]

Thought provoking YouTube thanks.
I think it highlights mostly the difficultly in comparison when it's presented like this at arms length.
I kept thinking 1. Programming is letting the P6 down and 2. The overall impression is the OB6 is running much closer to overloading the signal path so it sounds louder. It's easy enough to rectify these issue and present a fairer comparison. But I guess if you just drive it out of the box the OB6 is going to sound more aggressive and dirty without even trying.
My view is (as with many others in this thread) the P6 has more versatility and subtlety. If you want it!  And yes maybe it is easier to make the OB6 gurgle and scream. It's an interesting viewpoint that says the SEM 12db/octave filter also allows more harmonics to pass through and so is easier to sit in a mix. I wonder what the P12 and P8 guys think?

[Sacred Synthesis]

Your welcome.  I always enjoy comparison videos and discussions.  Of course, they can only go so far as to precision and fairness, but they are what they are.  This particular video has its limited value, for certain, and there was no attempt to program the same sounds on each instrument and then compare.  But still, the two synthesizers are there to give some sonic sense of each one's voice.

The OB-6's filter has a sandy fizziness from upper frequencies passing through that is so distinctive, almost regardless of the patch.  It's an unmistakable quality.  Personally, I far prefer the warmer and darker Prophet-6.  I've grown to like it again, after being disappointed with its limited modulation.  And it sure could double as a fine mono synth.  I'd love to hear the keyboard and module versions paired and panned.

 

[Hector Space]

I don't know if anyone has made this comparison already but after listening to your YouTube yesterday, it occurred to me that a good "similar too" would be to compare a Fender Strat with a Gibson Les Paul. The Strat being closer to the P6 with its ability to produce very clean sounds with reduced harmonics as well as scream (in the right hands). Whereas the OB6 is more like a Gibson with hot humbuckers.
Both are great and together produce a huge range of similar or overlapping sounds. But they both have particular niches.

[Hector Space]

A note on the OBXa I'm pretty sure I don't remember it having self oscillating filters. Or at least the ones we hired back then didn't. Also, Im thinking the OBXa filter was 12db/octave (2pole) and made by SSM? Either way the 2 pole filer made the OBXa less sonically flexible than the P5. Although as I remember it the OBXa was much funkier and gutsy live. It made a great replacement for my Hammond. I'm sure part of this was the real estate. The OBXa was physically big! My memory is the P5 really scored in the studio. It had some beautiful emotional sounds.

[LoboLives]

I just wish the OB6 had a bit more difference in terms of features than the P6. Even something as simple as having the OBXa benders instead of the mod wheels.



The ability to do splits and layers would have been nice or even just more polyphony. I dunno just something to differentiate it a bit more than just the sound. I get that the sound IS the key feature but still.

[DavidDever]

A note on the OBXa I'm pretty sure I don't remember it having self oscillating filters. Or at least the ones we hired back then didn't. Also, Im thinking the OBXa filter was 12db/octave (2pole) and made by SSM? Either way the 2 pole filer made the OBXa less sonically flexible than the P5. Although as I remember it the OBXa was much funkier and gutsy live. It made a great replacement for my Hammond. I'm sure part of this was the real estate. The OBXa was physically big! My memory is the P5 really scored in the studio. It had some beautiful emotional sounds.

The OB-X had discrete 2-pole non-self oscillating low-pass filters; the OB-Xa and OB-8 had Curtis 4-pole (self-oscillating) / 2-pole low-pass filters. (You may have been thinking about the original OB-X.)

Rev 1 / Rev 2 Prophet-5 units had SSM 4-pole low-pass filters; Rev 3 units had Curtis 4-pole (self-oscillating) low-pass filters, as did later Sequential units.

By comparison–the Prophet-6 has discrete SSM-style (e.g., Rev 1 / Rev 2) 4-pole low-pass + 2-pole discrete high-pass filters in series; the OB-6 has discrete SEM-style 2-pole state-variable filters (high-/band-/low-pass or notch); same applies to the (Pioneer DJ) Toraiz AS-1.

The Pro-2 has a single discrete SSM-style 4-pole low-pass filter, as well as a single SEM-style 2-pole state-variable filter, which can be arranged in series, parallel, or split among the four digital oscillators.

The Prophet '08 / Mopho / Tetra and the Evolver range all have Curtis 4-pole (self-oscillating) / 2-pole low-pass filters; the Prophet-12 adds a discrete 2-pole high-pass filter in series.

[Hector Space]

Thanks David, great info. I do remember the OB-X it had a horrible front panel colour scheme! I can't remember exactly what I did with the OBXa we had back in 1982 (it was only for a few gigs) but I do remember I had a chance of buying a second hand OBXa in ~1991, I can remember I couldn't get the filters to self oscillate. So I didn't buy it! To me that's a major feature of an analogue synth. So maybe it was out of calibration or something. I just assumed that the OBXa design didn't incorporate self oscillating filters I was very disappointed. Wish I'd known then what I know now. I would certainly have paid the £450 he wanted. Lol
Still I bought a secondhand Matrix 6 rack instead which was awesome!