Arpeggiator modes

LPF83

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Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2023, 04:31:48 PM »
It literally skips when you engage the hold button.  On what planet is that intended behaviour?

This is what happens when nostalgia is the driving force behind things. Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with nostalgia but I do feel it starts to create a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to these type of things.

I was watching a video the other day and it asked the question "Are companies rushing out incomplete instruments?" in regards to OS updates/bugs/missing features etc. Not that I agree with that totally but I do get the impression that instruments are given a short window to be developed to their full potential before the company just moves on to the next instrument and it's the majority of it's catalog becomes abandonware. I think a lot of them sort of thrive on that fanboy/blind agreement type consumer and I'm seeing more and more companies push back against things like bug fixes/new features. Maybe it's a case of "strike while the iron is hot. Get their money and move on before they get tied down."

Actually I think Sequential (at least under Dave's direction) was pretty good about eventually getting the bugs worked out of their products.

But I think what you're referring to overall is a side effect of two things :   1)  Increased dependency on software instead of circuitry  (2)  Trends in software development that lean toward "ship now, fix later" mentality.

In the early 2000's, "Agile" became a thing in software, which to summarize is less about getting it right the first time, and more about continuous and incremental updates.  Get it in the customer's hand early, even if it's buggy as crap, and let the feedback from that drive the product direction, rather than big up front design where lots of guesses needed to be made about what will be successful in the long term.

An unfortunate side effect of this is that a lot of companies scaled back on testing resources, in effect kind of letting the customer be the beta tester.  Yes there are some merits to the approach but the problem was that "we can always update it later" became the norm.  Fast forward to 2023, and the constant, relentless updates to everything are the bane of my existence.  I'm not sure there is a way to reverse the trend but I'm so tired of getting notifications for updates to every little plugin I own.  Granted, it's getting better as a lot of vendors (Arturia, Native Instruments, etc)  have invested in much more seamless update managment apps.

Anyway because much of synths functionality today is in software instead of discrete components, getting a product to market in time for a trade show is probably going to be seen as a higher priority than having all the bugs worked out.

I've been happy with my Sequential purchases to date.  Granted, most of them were relatively mature in their product lifecycle when I bought them (with the exception of the Prophet 10 which I bought in the first year of release), but patience has paid off in terms of the features that were added later I think.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2023, 10:44:32 PM »
Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.

The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).

LPF83

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Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2023, 06:27:49 AM »
The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).

The aftertouch sensitivity fix was a long time coming, but I'm very happy with the end result.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2023, 08:07:08 PM »
It literally skips when you engage the hold button.  On what planet is that intended behaviour?

This is what happens when nostalgia is the driving force behind things. Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with nostalgia but I do feel it starts to create a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to these type of things.

I was watching a video the other day and it asked the question "Are companies rushing out incomplete instruments?" in regards to OS updates/bugs/missing features etc. Not that I agree with that totally but I do get the impression that instruments are given a short window to be developed to their full potential before the company just moves on to the next instrument and it's the majority of it's catalog becomes abandonware. I think a lot of them sort of thrive on that fanboy/blind agreement type consumer and I'm seeing more and more companies push back against things like bug fixes/new features. Maybe it's a case of "strike while the iron is hot. Get their money and move on before they get tied down."

Actually I think Sequential (at least under Dave's direction) was pretty good about eventually getting the bugs worked out of their products.

But I think what you're referring to overall is a side effect of two things :   1)  Increased dependency on software instead of circuitry  (2)  Trends in software development that lean toward "ship now, fix later" mentality.

In the early 2000's, "Agile" became a thing in software, which to summarize is less about getting it right the first time, and more about continuous and incremental updates.  Get it in the customer's hand early, even if it's buggy as crap, and let the feedback from that drive the product direction, rather than big up front design where lots of guesses needed to be made about what will be successful in the long term.

An unfortunate side effect of this is that a lot of companies scaled back on testing resources, in effect kind of letting the customer be the beta tester.  Yes there are some merits to the approach but the problem was that "we can always update it later" became the norm.  Fast forward to 2023, and the constant, relentless updates to everything are the bane of my existence.  I'm not sure there is a way to reverse the trend but I'm so tired of getting notifications for updates to every little plugin I own.  Granted, it's getting better as a lot of vendors (Arturia, Native Instruments, etc)  have invested in much more seamless update managment apps.

Anyway because much of synths functionality today is in software instead of discrete components, getting a product to market in time for a trade show is probably going to be seen as a higher priority than having all the bugs worked out.

I've been happy with my Sequential purchases to date.  Granted, most of them were relatively mature in their product lifecycle when I bought them (with the exception of the Prophet 10 which I bought in the first year of release), but patience has paid off in terms of the features that were added later I think.

Iím not against this approach at all in theory...but itís all contingent on follow through of the actual company.

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2023, 08:09:49 PM »
Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.

The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).

You are confusing hardware updates with firmware. Before, and in many cases now, you have to buy an entirely new machine to get the updated functionality and bug fixes. Iím sure a lot of Quantum owners are livid right now...

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2023, 05:03:30 AM »
It literally skips when you engage the hold button.  On what planet is that intended behaviour?

I was messing around last night syncing to my DAW and realized if you press the Hold button before hitting keys it was much easier to hit the beat, as opposed to hitting Hold while and arp is already playing (which as we have discussed, causes the arp to stutter and be out of sync).  Squeak squeak! 
Rev2, Pro3, OB-X8, Kronos, Summit, Hydrasynth, Subsequent37, Taurus III, Iridium, Opsix, Eurorack

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2023, 10:45:48 AM »
Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.

The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).

You are confusing hardware updates with firmware. Before, and in many cases now, you have to buy an entirely new machine to get the updated functionality and bug fixes. Iím sure a lot of Quantum owners are livid right now...

That is not confusing, just different ways to update electronic devices for different ages. Today we can flush EPROMS etc, time passed that was not an option. But yes, it can be different things but that is not what this question is about but improvements to an exciting electronic architecture.

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2023, 11:54:32 PM »
I understand making the OB-X8ís arp work like a vintage Oberheimís arpeggiator. Back then, they were making this stuff up as the went and, in the intervening 40-odd years, synth companies have come up with a standard for how an arpeggiator should work that weíre all used to. This vintage-style implementation has some quirks and features that make it unique but itís, overall, a whole lot less usable than other synth.

Iíd love it if a future firmware update had a vintage/modern arp mode so the user could make this choice. I find that I never use the arp on my X8 and save my OB6 for all arpeggio duties.

sacguy71

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Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2023, 10:45:20 PM »
I understand making the OB-X8ís arp work like a vintage Oberheimís arpeggiator. Back then, they were making this stuff up as the went and, in the intervening 40-odd years, synth companies have come up with a standard for how an arpeggiator should work that weíre all used to. This vintage-style implementation has some quirks and features that make it unique but itís, overall, a whole lot less usable than other synth.

Iíd love it if a future firmware update had a vintage/modern arp mode so the user could make this choice. I find that I never use the arp on my X8 and save my OB6 for all arpeggio duties.

Yes, for a 5k synth it definitely needs better arpeggiator options. My Virus runs circles around my OB X8 in this area in that I can not only hold the arp but choose dozens of arp modes and patterns. Donít get me wrong, the OB X8 is fantastic but even the Sequential Prophet synths have a better arp sequencer.
Oberheim OB X-8
Access Virus TI2
Squarp Hapax
Electron Rytm MK2
Moog Sub 37
Elektron Digitone
Elektron Analog 4
Tons of Eurorack modular

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2023, 02:14:18 AM »
well thankfully its how it should be, I thought for a day that I had a faulty synth, so what im saying is the arp is that bad that I thought it was a fault! disappointing at 8k here in Aust

Re: Arpeggiator modes
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2023, 08:58:01 AM »
Coming back to the Arp HOLD Switch Discussion, in the Manual it is explained this way:
ē HOLD: This switch allows the voices that are latched by the master hold switch to be arpeggiated. To use this feature, hold a selection
of keys to be arpeggiated, then press the hold switch in the Master section. Release the keys and the notes will arpeggiate. Any free voices can now be played over the latched arpeggiation. The notes can be released by pressing Master hold once more. Pressing kbd while an arpeggiation is latched by Master Hold reverts the notes to a latched chord. Pressing the Lever Box hold switch again reverts the latched keys to the previously-latched arpeggiation.

On my OB-X8 with the latest Firmware, this is not working. When i hold a Chord and press HOLD, nothing happens. I made sure i am in Arp Mode and Arpeggiate is engaged.

Is this a confirmed Bug?
Thanks!