Behringer Pro-800

Sacred Synthesis

Behringer Pro-800
« on: December 07, 2022, 09:04:21 PM »
Expected in April of 2023 for $600:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8IGN4F3hdY
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 10:01:22 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

LPF83

  • ***
  • 1443
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2022, 04:25:57 AM »
In the demo it doesn't sound bad, though my ears do detect (even over YT) that "not fully analog signal path" sound that is common on so many budget synths, so I'm going to say there are definitely some cost cutting choices in the design there.

However, at a price point like $600 USD, that may be irrelevant for many.  The form factor makes it attractive for compact/travel setups, where having an 8 voice VCO poly module at that MSRP does appeal to me, because my compact setup is more of a sketchpad for ideas than a quality canvas with a full array of oil paints, and being able to toss an expendable piece of gear (that's probably built to last less than 10 years anyway) into a duffle/backpack without worrying about wear and tear would be an extra bonus.  So yeah, I do think there is a market and use case for low-end gear.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

maxter

  • ***
  • 419
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2022, 01:06:40 PM »
Good points LPF83! My thoughts as well. And not that I intend to dive into eurorack swamp or anything, but a Pro-800 paired with cre8audio's niftykeyz or niftycase is a bit tempting. Perhaps some FX modules and whatnot, I'd prefer that to a pedal board and such every day.

The small form factor of an 8-voice poly is the biggest selling point for me. I hope to see more of its kind, as I'm not the biggest fan of the Prophet 600.
The Way the Truth and the Life

jg666

  • ***
  • 557
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2022, 03:41:09 AM »
Another video here from Andertons...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA4IiKcC-s0

DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

LPF83

  • ***
  • 1443
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2022, 04:01:23 AM »
Good points LPF83! My thoughts as well. And not that I intend to dive into eurorack swamp or anything, but a Pro-800 paired with cre8audio's niftykeyz or niftycase is a bit tempting. Perhaps some FX modules and whatnot, I'd prefer that to a pedal board and such every day.

The small form factor of an 8-voice poly is the biggest selling point for me. I hope to see more of its kind, as I'm not the biggest fan of the Prophet 600.

I love the original P600, and for the most part I like the design of this, even though all design credit goes 100% to Dave Smith since this is blatant theft of his ideas.  The one thing I see right away that I don't like,however is the MIDI IN DIN port on the top.  This has more to do with the cabling routing preferences of my particular compact setup, so what is a negative for me might be a positive for others.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2022, 02:07:53 PM »
The Prophet-600 has been my favorite sounding polyphonic synthesizer for several years.  Its simplicity is a treat to the creative mind that doesn't want to waste hours designing sounds, and it has a rawness of tone that strikes me, not as harsh, but as analog pure.  It's too similar to Dave's modern instruments for him to have issued a P-600 Rev2 version, but I would have been thrilled if he had.  The Prophet '08 seems to have a similar tone at its best.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 09:57:36 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2022, 04:52:28 PM »
I've been re-intrigued by the Prophet 600 in recent years. I wasn't much interested back in the day. I'd had a rev 2 P5 and a Pro One, but the Prophet 600 looked a bit like a not-quite version of either of those synths. (And yeah, I was judging by looks, it's true!). The studio I pretty much lived at ended up with a P600, but I think my snobbishness carried over and I never gave it much of a chance. Now that it's now, though, give or take the owning of a new Prophet 5, I keep seeing Prophet 600s pop up and I'm always a little tempted. Probably not tempted enough to actually buy one, but tempted to wish for one!

The B version isn't for me. Same old "bad vibe" issue for a start, but really, I want the experience of the Real Thing sometimes, not just the sound of "yeah, pretty close!"

maxter

  • ***
  • 419
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2022, 06:19:40 AM »
I'm not saying I don't like the sound of the Prophet 600, I think it sounds great. I just think it's a bit "niche"-y for me, and not as versatile as others. Streamlining space-wise here, I've had to narrow it down to equipment that each covers a broader field. If space and money wasn't an issue, it'd be the other way around, I'd prefer to have lots of niche-y synths that excel at doing just a couple of things really well. Like I'd prefer a Korg Trident to the Streichfett, for instance.

I don't recall if the Gligli mod offers different envelope behavior, but the standard ones never really clicked with me. I hope to try out a Pro-800 anyhow, just in case...
The Way the Truth and the Life

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2022, 04:59:48 PM »
There's something downright creepy about the way the first video above describes the historical advances represented by the Prophet-600, but without crediting any actual person or company.  It's as if the outstanding individuals and designs of the synthesizer world are merely ground beef to them.  If they truly want to "respectfully look back," they should name names and give credit specifically where credit is due.  After watching the video again, I find it disturbing.

Let's say it all together, Uli: "Dave Smith."
« Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 11:49:26 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2022, 06:42:16 PM »
There's something downright creepy about the way the first video above describes the historical advances represented by the Prophet-600, but without crediting any actual persons or companies.  It's as if the outstanding individuals and designs of the synthesizer world are merely ground beef to them.  If they truly want to "respectfully look back," they should name names and give credit specifically where credit is due.  After watching the video again, I find it disturbing.

I didn't watch the vids in detail, but I don't think either the official B vid or the one from Anderton's mentioned Sequential Circuits. They mentioned the year 1982, though, so that's got to count for something in the historical accuracy department!

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2022, 09:37:31 PM »
The video also shows images of the Prophet-600, which makes the omission of names even more bothersome.  Is there something to be lost in mentioning Dave Smith and Sequential Circuits Inc?  At least Korg, in re-issuing a couple of ARP's synthesizers, has the decency of mentioning the company and its personnel by name and placing the name on the actual instruments.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 07:01:58 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2022, 10:55:37 AM »
Considering it's meant to be a marketing video-I too noticed this awkward omission right away. 
Sequential/DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop,   Pro-2, Pro-3, OB6, P-12,
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

jg666

  • ***
  • 557
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2022, 12:20:52 AM »
You'd maybe have to conclude then that this is a deliberate omission? Seems strange and somewhat of an insult to me.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

chysn

  • *****
  • 1812
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2022, 12:22:20 PM »
You'd maybe have to conclude then that this is a deliberate omission? Seems strange and somewhat of an insult to me.

Considering that they were literally taking legal action against DSI fans (in the pre-Sequential days), it would seem that they'd be embarrassed to acknowledge what everyone already knows.
Prophet 5 Rev 4 #2711

MPC One+ ∙ MuseScore 4

www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

he/him/his

LPF83

  • ***
  • 1443
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 06:52:51 PM »
Considering that they were literally taking legal action against DSI fans (in the pre-Sequential days), it would seem that they'd be embarrassed to acknowledge what everyone already knows.

That's not even the worst of their legal shenanigans:

https://cdm.link/2021/07/family-owned-auratone-win-defense-of-their-trademark-in-music-tribe-behringer-case/
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2022, 07:59:07 PM »
Unbelievable.  I thought that he would eventually change his tactics and allow us to forgive the past belligerence.  I could have put it aside, but it doesn't seem to be the case.  The bullying continues. 

He ain't gettin' my money, ever.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 06:57:12 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

jg666

  • ***
  • 557
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2022, 02:00:27 AM »
It does seem that they don't care how many people they annoy or alienate.

Those couple of videos we were talking about, the least I would have expected to hear was a phrase like "the late great Dave Smith". It wouldn't have taken much to say that and it would have lessened the annoyance factor for a lot of people.

I suppose as long as we have people who will keep buying all their gear, then they will just carry on. Yes I know I'm guilty because I bought an RD-9 but in my defence I needed a cheap and cheerful drum machine. If I'd been looking at drum machines now, I probably would not have got the RD-9 due to their attitudes.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

LPF83

  • ***
  • 1443
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2022, 04:13:04 AM »
Unbelievable.  I thought that Behringer would eventually change his tactics and allow us to forgive the past belligerence.  I could have put it aside, but it doesn't seem to be the case.  The bullying continues. 

He ain't gettin' my money, ever.

The return of the Oberheim name to Tom was announced approximately a month after that article was published, so I don't know to what extent the events are related, or if Uli's marketing people simply decided that the bad press resulting from trademark hijacking was doing more harm than good.  I haven't heard of any highly visible trademark offenses  since then, but then again, I haven't exactly been looking for them.

I feel like the current marketing spin for the Pro-800 is to present the product such that it appears to pay respect to Dave Smith in a backhanded way, in part because of the timing / Dave's recent passing.  Perhaps also that Uli got the message and realized that musicians and producers can be a somewhat karmic group, and that being a trademark shark was not going to be good in the long term.  If he has in fact turned things around, should he be given a chance to make it right?  Well my own opinion is that anything's possible, but personally in order to even begin to forgive, I would need to see him come out and directly address the events of the past, admit prior wrongs and THEN talk about future plans, and even then it doesn't guarantee I would suddenly be interested in buying into the brand.  It just means the bridge to redemption would then be under construction and that it could get utilized in the future.

But even with all the legal tomfoolery aside, there is one thing I believe will never change.  Their instruments are designed with price limitation as an initial design priority, where cost of production takes precedence over everything else, including sound and build quality.  While I understand that's "smart business" I do not believe it's good for the industry or the consumer, and as an example of that:  I once had a direct email exchange with the creator of one of my favorite analog monosynths, the Xenophone.. out of production now and increasingly rare, it has a feature set that is not often found on a fully analog mono, and more importantly has a special tone with sweet spots everywhere.  The conversation was mostly technical in nature, but I asked if new hardware synth products were in the making.  He said his most recent design effort had been cancelled due to the influx of discount synths (specifically mentioning B) pushing him out of the market.  My point here is just that even with all other factors off the table, products with a seemingly attractive price point often come with a cost that is far greater than the money saved  in the initial purchase.  And it's sad to think of how many special, quality instruments will simply never be created as a result of the flood of cheap gear.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 04:16:54 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2022, 06:25:13 AM »
You've made many good points, LPF83.  I would add - as Jg666 suggested - that the proper way to offer sincere homage to our old good friend, Dave Smith, is by MENTIONING HIS NAME!  All the praise in the world for a product cannot compensate for the refusal to speak the designer's name.

I must admit that, due to my own restraints, I've found it increasingly difficult to maintain the high road in this matter and have reconsidered my position.  It's been very tempting to buy his versions of the Odyssey and 2600, since this has been my dream combination for a couple of years now.  I can't presently afford Korg's 2600M.  And I might have offered his highness an olive branch of mercy for past behavior if some degree of contrition had been demonstrated.  I'd be happy to forgive and forget.  But no.  Discussions like this one recall me to utter repulsion.

I've read many posts here and elsewhere that praise him to the skies for offering those with meager resources the chance to own affordable versions of expensive iconic instruments.  For some he's practically a savior to the poor.  But I think this is a short-sighted view of the situation.  The affordable version idea might offer a happy momentary opportunity to many, but in the long run it may have a stultifying effect on the synthesizer industry.  The story recounted above demonstrates this, but I've come across the same story elsewhere.  Some instruments simply will not be brought to production - some new and some re-issues - because the easy opportunities offered by low-hanging fruit have killed them.  And who knows how extensive this effect has been, how deeply it's run through the synthesizer industry? 

Plus, what about quality materials?  I'm currently playing an eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard PE that is about fifteen years old now and yet works flawlessly.  I presently have no intention of selling it.  Isn't there a substantial savings in that I've not needed to replace it for nearly two decades?  And is it really a bargain if you have to replace one inexpensive instrument after another every few years?

 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 08:22:13 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

LPF83

  • ***
  • 1443
Re: Behringer Pro-800
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2022, 01:47:46 PM »
Plus, what about quality materials?  I'm currently playing an eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard PE that is about fifteen years old now and yet works flawlessly.  I presently have no intention of selling it.  Isn't there a substantial savings in that I've not needed to replace it for nearly two decades?  And is it really a bargain if you have to replace one inexpensive instrument after another every few years?

Not only this, but if you keep it long enough, it will more likely begin rising in value at a rate that outpaces inflation.  I see Dave's instruments as investments.  Behringer products will never be that.  I feel like some of them, at least their vintage knock offs, are a bit of a marketing gimmick. 

But as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a market for expendable gear.  Recently I got a JU-06a, a stunning little synth for the price... and build quality is good and it will probably be around for decades, but at the same time I consider it expendable and certainly not an investment.  But, it serves its role... tiny, convenient (USB powered), sounds great, and "good enough" (4 voices) for many things and certainly a travel setup.  Never going to be the crown jewel of anyone's studio, but for the price, yes I see why people buy these things now.  Roland gets a lot of hate because they won't do proper analog recreations, but to me that's nothing like the ethical violations we've talked about so far.  And the reality is some of their new stuff is quite good for what they're charging.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC