Please for the love of god put PROGRAM CHANGE TRANSMIT OFF in your synths!

[SynthHead]

I have a Prophet 10 rev 4 and an OB-6 which make an awesome team, I'll often use the seq/arp from the OB-6 to trigger the Prophet and sometimes use the Prophet's 5 octave keyboard to play the OB-6's sounds... usually these are layered or switched in real time on either synth to create interesting stuff for recording.

However... one massive flaw in these synths is that you can't turn program change transmit/receive off (unless - I think - you turn off all midi response?). So you can't use the 2 synth, your company's 2 synths well together without one synth changing the other synth's patch and messing up everything, or making things extremely difficult to work around with having to do things seperately.

This also applies to the VOLUME KNOB output that affects the volume on the other synth!

Can you please update the next firmwares with a simple toggle to disable program change TX/RX and Vol knob TX/RX on these otherwise awesome synths! This kind of stuff has been in synths since Dave himself invented MIDI (well.. not long after at least - probably Roland were the first to have it in some obscure menu somewhere in one of their romplers).

Please, seriously consider this... I do not wish to go and purchase hardware MIDI filter boxes for such a simple task that most of my other synths always had the ability to control!

Thank you Sequential.

[acemonvw]

I have a Prophet 10 rev 4 and an OB-6 which make an awesome team, I'll often use the seq/arp from the OB-6 to trigger the Prophet and sometimes use the Prophet's 5 octave keyboard to play the OB-6's sounds... usually these are layered or switched in real time on either synth to create interesting stuff for recording.

However... one massive flaw in these synths is that you can't turn program change transmit/receive off (unless - I think - you turn off all midi response?). So you can't use the 2 synth, your company's 2 synths well together without one synth changing the other synth's patch and messing up everything, or making things extremely difficult to work around with having to do things seperately.

This also applies to the VOLUME KNOB output that affects the volume on the other synth!

Can you please update the next firmwares with a simple toggle to disable program change TX/RX and Vol knob TX/RX on these otherwise awesome synths! This kind of stuff has been in synths since Dave himself invented MIDI (well.. not long after at least - probably Roland were the first to have it in some obscure menu somewhere in one of their romplers).

Please, seriously consider this... I do not wish to go and purchase hardware MIDI filter boxes for such a simple task that most of my other synths always had the ability to control!

Thank you Sequential.

I asked the same thing back in November 2020 - but I'm pretty sure they replied with "This is how our synthesizers work."

For me, the way that I deal with this issue is using the MRCC (and other MIDI patchbays I'm sure) to block program change requests. My issue was that the program change messages were telling my Spectralis to go to another pattern, which was not at all acceptable. It has worked for me, and the MRCC is a pretty nifty device, but it is a bit of cash. Older patchbays are less than $100 and would do this too.

EDIT: Removed some stuff that was probably more negative than it needed to be.

[Kim Sand]

I have the same problem. This is my main issue with the Prophet 10, and it would be such an easy fix in an update.

I'm layering the Prophet-10 with the Prophet-12 by playing them both from the Prophet-10 keyboard. They sound great together! But each time I change the program on the Prophet-10 it also changes the program number on the Prophet-12. When trying out sound combinations I constantly have to navigate back to the same Prophet-12 program. If I was editing a patch on the Prophet-12 it is now gone. It is super annoying and a huge oversight! Especially with such a great keybed that begs to be the center piece of the studio. If only it didn't mess up the programs on all the synths it controls.

The Prophet-12 has a selectable global option to not transmit program changes. So does the OB-X8. Thus some Sequential/DSI synths handle this properly, some don't. Unfortunately, the Prophet-12 does not have a corresponding option to not receive program changes, which would have solved the problem (for this combo).

I guess I will have to look into MIDI boxes that can filter out program changes, since MIDI implementations are so arbitrary.

[g3o2]

Write to support if you want to be heard, or at least get a chance at being heard.

You could take a look at JMK Pedals Plexus 4 (https://jmkmusicpedals.com/products/plexus-4). It is a MIDI router/filter/merger in one little 9V DC powered box and would probably upgrade your P10+P12 experience in general (eg poly chaining, keyboard zones for splitting and layering, etc). It does not need any computer for configuration.

[Kim Sand]

I have written to support and I hope they will consider this simple option.

Thank you for making me aware of the Plexus 4. That looks like an excellent, little box to solve a lot of MIDI issues and inconveniences! And the computer-free setup is perfect and future-proof! But the fewer boxes I need the better, so I'm crossing my fingers for a fix.

[Analog Prophet]

This little cost effective box, MIDITECH MIDI throu filter, will filter out program change:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/miditech_midi_thru_filter.htm?__cTr=1f498974-107e-4fac-85ea-bcf811237c0b&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoidXMiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6NywibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOjJ9&reload=1

[g3o2]

I understand your feeling towards those little boxes, in particular the added complexity and their space requirement, no matter how small they are. Analog Prophet’s helper suggestion is smaller and more focused. It gets the job done with a simple dip switch, costs a fifth of the Plexus and only uses half of its space, also because it draws its power through MIDI rather than an extra DC cable.

I would not bet on Sequential patching their P10 firmware in the near future though because hardware pays their bills, not software. P10 has reached year 5 since its release and so firmware support will also fade out sooner than later. The fact that new features were unofficially added to the P10 2 years ago seems in imo to have been a coincidental byproduct of the X8’s software development. Note how this firmware has never reached official status. Secretly, I hope to be proven wrong, of course 

[LPF83]

I understand your feeling towards those little boxes, in particular the added complexity and their space requirement, no matter how small they are. Analog Prophet’s helper suggestion is smaller and more focused. It gets the job done with a simple dip switch, costs a fifth of the Plexus and only uses half of its space, also because it draws its power through MIDI rather than an extra DC cable.

I would not bet on Sequential patching their P10 firmware in the near future though because hardware pays their bills, not software. P10 has reached year 5 since its release and so firmware support will also fade out sooner than later. The fact that new features were unofficially added to the P10 2 years ago seems in imo to have been a coincidental byproduct of the X8’s software development. Note how this firmware has never reached official status. Secretly, I hope to be proven wrong, of course 

You might not be wrong about the coincidence, but I sometimes wonder if all the things that have happened (Focusrite acquisition of Sequential and Oberheim merger, loss of Dave etc.) has led to a phenomenon I've experienced at more than one job, where the number of products needing support increases, but the number of people doing core support does not.  By that I mean it's easy to hire folks to answer phones/emails and forward the technically challenging stuff to those who actually fix it ***,  but those who can actually fix specialized tech devices are in such finite supply, and even if you could hire new ones easily, the knowledge transfer around existing products is never a quick process.  So there becomes this conundrum where there's just not enough hours in the day and capable resources available to do it all.

I'm not currently in a director position (I returned to technical hands-on by choice), but when I was, sometimes I would just call a "feature freeze" for one or more sprint cycles.  Absolutely nothing new** made it into the development sprint until we hit stability equilibrium and spending more time on bug fixes would only produce diminishing returns. 

** I do realize the irony here because the thread is more or less a feature request.  But in this case it's less of a feature than it is a stability request.

*** Adding a note that I'm referring to larger companies I've worked in that operate at a different scale and not smaller companies where first responders are also fixing issues!  In larger companies, the call center phones are usually not answered by C++ coders!  Disclaimer - I have no inside knowledge of how firmware fixes at Sequential actually work.

[BT]

Support team member here, just to remind folks that the support team at Sequential HQ still answers your emails as well as perform repairs on instruments you send to us. That does indeed make us busy, but we do our best to help! Our apologies if it sometimes takes us a little longer than expected to turn things around.

Please feel free to contact support@sequential.com, or support@oberheim.com with your feature requests and technical issues.

[LPF83]

Support team member here, just to remind folks that the support team at Sequential HQ still answers your emails and perform repairs on instruments you send to us. That does indeed make us busy, but we do our best to help! Our apologies if it sometimes takes us a little longer than expected to turn things around.

Please feel free to contact support@sequential.com, or support@oberheim.com with your feature requests and technical issues.

Hi BT, I just edited my post to hopefully add clarity that I didn't mean to imply speculation about how things work at Sequential.  I haven't had enough issues with any Sequential/Oberheim gear (and I have quite a few) to even need real support yet, but it warms my heart to know that when I do, that formal layers and procedure won't be in the way.  I guess what I was trying to say is that as the product line grows, unless staff quantity and skill/experience with product scales with it, delays will grow as well.

[Kim Sand]

I understand your feeling towards those little boxes, in particular the added complexity and their space requirement, no matter how small they are. Analog Prophet’s helper suggestion is smaller and more focused. It gets the job done with a simple dip switch, costs a fifth of the Plexus and only uses half of its space, also because it draws its power through MIDI rather than an extra DC cable.

A smaller, simpler, MIDI-powered device is indeed attractive as a permanent through-box on the Prophet-10 MIDI out. That assumes the MIDI port will actually power it, which is not a given. But I do already use a MIDI-merge box to route the Prophet-10 (and OB-X8) to multiple synths. I worry that chaining multiple MIDI-processing boxes will eventually introduce noticeable latency. The Plexus can do everything I need in one (still small) box, which makes it my preferred option so far.

[Kim Sand]

Support team member here, just to remind folks that the support team at Sequential HQ still answers your emails and perform repairs on instruments you send to us. That does indeed make us busy, but we do our best to help! Our apologies if it sometimes takes us a little longer than expected to turn things around.

Thank you for your replies! Both here and to my feature-request e-mail. I appreciate that my request will be considered if/when a firmware update becomes a priority. That is the best I can hope for.

Unfortunately, I am unable to configure the Prophet-12 to not respond to program change messages. As long as it responds to MIDI at all it also handles program changes. It would need an option to not receive those (it already has an option not to send them), but I assume a firmware update to an out-of-production synth is highly unlikely.

[Kim Sand]

I haven't had enough issues with any Sequential/Oberheim gear (and I have quite a few) to even need real support yet, but it warms my heart to know that when I do, that formal layers and procedure won't be in the way.

Yes! I have owned 6 DSI/Sequential/Oberheim synths, and none of them have had any serious issues at all. They have indeed been the most solid and firmware-supported synths I have used. Which is why I ended up with so many (I still have 4, with the OB-6).

Also, I have worked as a developer/technician, doing both core development and support/maintenance, both directly with customers and via first-line support staff. And I know from experience that sometimes even the little things, even from one customer, is fixed, simply because it makes sense and is easy to do. And typically because one developer decides to just do it, outside the normal priorities. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[g3o2]

That assumes the MIDI port will actually power it, which is not a given. But I do already use a MIDI-merge box to route the Prophet-10 (and OB-X8) to multiple synths. I worry that chaining multiple MIDI-processing boxes will eventually introduce noticeable latency. The Plexus can do everything I need in one (still small) box, which makes it my preferred option so far.

MIDI Out port provides power on both X8 and P10. Usually, it is with effects boxes and portable controllers, when they come with a DIN port, where power on MIDI Out should not be assumed.

As for MIDI latency, I would try putting the filtering node before the merger. I am happy with the Plexus 4 as a portable, well-documented and flexible little helper.

I’d also like to emphasize that my previous post was in favor of solving problems on our side rather than waiting for or relying on others to solve them. One can always hope for more and better but you don’t want this to interfere with your music :-)

[Analog Prophet]

A MIDI filter box might be the easiest solution as it is for now, but there are options maybe already among the gear in the studio:

If connect through a DAW there normally is a MIDI filter from where program change etc can be deactivated.

Some MIDI interfaces has programable MIDI filter (such my iConnectivity MIO XL). Worth checking if the MIDI Interface one have already has such features built in.

[Kim Sand]

A MIDI filter box might be the easiest solution as it is for now, but there are options maybe already among the gear in the studio:

If connect through a DAW there normally is a MIDI filter from where program change etc can be deactivated.

Some MIDI interfaces has programable MIDI filter (such my iConnectivity MIO XL). Worth checking if the MIDI Interface one have already has such features built in.

Thanks for the tip! I don't have a MIDI interface. For recording MIDI I use a plain USB-hub connected to my computer. The MIO XL could act as both a USB-hub and a MIDI router/filter. But it relies on using the computer each time I need to reconfigure it. The less computer in my music, the better.

Also, I'd prefer one box that handles all my MIDI needs. That leaves the MRCC and the Plexus 4. Since I use a USB hub I don't really need all the MRCC connectivity. And the tiny screen looks painful to read. The Plexus 4 gives all its feedback through large buttons/lights and is hands-on reconfigurable. It looks like a great device for my needs.

[Analog Prophet]

A MIDI filter box might be the easiest solution as it is for now, but there are options maybe already among the gear in the studio:

If connect through a DAW there normally is a MIDI filter from where program change etc can be deactivated.

Some MIDI interfaces has programable MIDI filter (such my iConnectivity MIO XL). Worth checking if the MIDI Interface one have already has such features built in.

The MIO XL could act as both a USB-hub and a MIDI router/filter. But it relies on using the computer each time I need to reconfigure it. The less computer in my music, the better.

It can be used without computer and save different presets that can be activated from the device either the computer off. But still, a simple MIDI-filter box for some few $ maybe is the most cost effective and convenient way to go for DAW-less use… if you don’t need a larger programmable MIDI hub.

[markwilkins]

Some MIDI interfaces has programable MIDI filter (such my iConnectivity MIO XL). Worth checking if the MIDI Interface one have already has such features built in.

One more data point regarding the filtering ...

I have the iConnectivity mioXM (the smaller version). It does help some with the filtering of these messages. I'm not sure if it is user error on my part or if there is less functionality in the mioXM, but I am not able to fully suppress the program changes with that device. I asked about this same issue (unwanted program changes over MIDI) in the Trigon forum sometime back (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,7431.0.html). With the mioXM, I am able to filter program changes, but the bank changes still get sent through it. The end result is that if I have all the patches of interest in the same bank (e.g., 400-499 for example) on both synths, then it works fine. But if I change to bank 300, for example, on my Prophet-6, it will change to the 300 bank on the Trigon.

[dr.sax]

Perhaps have a look at the retrokits RK 002 smart cable. https://retrokits.com/shop/rk002/. 
It can be programmed to multiple tasks. It´s perhaps the cheapest way to filter stuff. I have 2 cables for different tasks. See https://duy.retrokits.com/#