Experience with SoundTower plugins (Sound Editor and PlugSE) for Take 5

[lewisfrancis]

UPDATE: My bad, needed to switch to a tool that properly compared hex files -- the two files are different and so categorization is def preserved in the memory structure and sysex dumps.

Cool ! Thanks for your tests.
It seems that the Take 5 has room in its current program memory structure for potential new features !

I'll probably purchase the stand-alone sound editor for the Library and Category features.

I'm just annoyed by the following issues (specific to the Windows platform ?) :
- When clicking on ´Envelopes', the section containing the Envelope Routing button is not shown so I have to scroll horizontally a bit
- Scrolling with 2 fingers on the touchpad of my laptop doesn't work. I have to click on the list buttons or the list scrollbar to navigate within horizontal and vertical lists (as found in the Bank section). The scrolling via a mouse wheel works though but most of the time I don't use a mouse especially when I connect my laptop to the T5 (I don't have the space for that).

I'll reach SoundTower support.

FWIW clicking on the tabs slide the UI to the appropriate section for me on the Mac, but I can't scroll using the mouse or trackpad gestures unless I grab the scroll thumb and move that old-school. There's a lot of stuff in the UI that do not follow MacOS standard conventions, though, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[lewisfrancis]

Hi all,

I've created a Google spreadsheet to document my SoundTower bugs and workarounds while I explore this toolset. There are tabs for the standalone editor, PlugSE, and undocumented features.

If anyone would like to add their own bugs feel free to message me with your email address for editor access or just the bug details, and I'll add them to the tracker.

Cheers!

[lewisfrancis]

Regarding Phantom Banks functionality -- still haven't heard back from SoundTower but found a reference in the Rev2 forum where creativespiral writes: it has a "phantom banks" function that lets you create virtual banks outside the ones on the Rev2... useful for large scale reorganization of presets and creating your own user banks.

Makes sense, though it's not at all obvious to me just by looking at the feature. Maybe if it had been called something like "Organizing Banks" my brain may have sparked. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ElecStraTake]

I've got some answers from the SoundTower support :
- on Windows, the shortcut key (Alt+E) shows correctly envelopes with routings. That's a workaround for the Envelopes button. Hopefully, this will be corrected in the future as I found easier to use the button.
- Phantom program banks : "If you have  a collection of Take 5 banks then you can quicky load them to Phantom banks and have them there at your disposal without committing them to TAKE 5 banks."

Regarding Phantom Banks functionality -- still haven't heard back from SoundTower but found a reference in the Rev2 forum where creativespiral writes: it has a "phantom banks" function that lets you create virtual banks outside the ones on the Rev2... useful for large scale reorganization of presets and creating your own user banks.

So it's confirmed.

[lewisfrancis]

I've got some answers from the SoundTower support :
- on Windows, the shortcut key (Alt+E) shows correctly envelopes with routings. That's a workaround for the Envelopes button. Hopefully, this will be corrected in the future as I found easier to use the button.
- Phantom program banks : "If you have  a collection of Take 5 banks then you can quicky load them to Phantom banks and have them there at your disposal without committing them to TAKE 5 banks."

Regarding Phantom Banks functionality -- still haven't heard back from SoundTower but found a reference in the Rev2 forum where creativespiral writes: it has a "phantom banks" function that lets you create virtual banks outside the ones on the Rev2... useful for large scale reorganization of presets and creating your own user banks.

So it's confirmed.

Thanks. Just that description if placed in the docs would help new users so much, I find it's an odd omission, but it seems to be missing from even very old Soundtower products. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ElecStraTake]

- Renaming a program in the software still isn't stored/updated in the synth
- Renaming by right clicking on the program in the banks overview still doesn't work.

For your information, I've just bought the latest version (v1.1.4) of the standalone SoundEditor and the 2 features work seamlessly on my Windows 10 22H2 laptop :
- renaming a program or modifying the sound in the editor is reflected in the synth, but you need to perform a write to actually store it in the synth. This is done via the menu Edit > Write Program in the editor. Or you can do a write directly on the synth.
- renaming by right clicking on a program in the banks list is immediate / direct.
I hope this helps.

[lewisfrancis]

Hi all,

I've created a Google spreadsheet to document my SoundTower bugs and workarounds while I explore this toolset. There are tabs for the standalone editor, PlugSE, and undocumented features.

If anyone would like to add their own bugs feel free to message me with your email address for editor access or just the bug details, and I'll add them to the tracker.

Cheers!

Anyone hear from Soundtower about forthcoming bug fixes? I followed up a couple months after submitting my bugs and have so far received no response after the initial "we should fix those promptly" assertion.

[lewisfrancis]

Checked in again with SoundTower and found that while the plugin version fixes are still in queue, the standalone editor has a new 1.2 release available. https://www.soundtower.com/take5/take5_download.html

Hope to give it a once over tonight.

[Nordlicht]

I've just updated to v1.20 but didn't notice any relevant changes (I didn't spend much time either).

But one thing continues to bother me and I don't know if it's a bug or if I'm using the program incorrectly:

If I change the name of a program in the editor in the banks overview or on the program page, it is changed directly in Take 5 after pressing "OK", but apparently not saved. If I then change the program in the synth or in the program, the name is as before the change.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to press "write" manually on the synth when changing names?

Thanks in advance for any tips on this.

[lewisfrancis]

Checked in again with SoundTower and found that while the plugin version fixes are still in queue, the standalone editor has a new 1.2 release available. https://www.soundtower.com/take5/take5_download.html

Hope to give it a once over tonight.

Unfortunately out of the issues I'm documenting at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oGQgRp5CB7B3_HEjjB2cJ0NfWLHRRKE4K2HqXfwkvx8/edit?usp=sharing the two major issues were not fixed as promised, at least on the Mac side. One minor issue was addressed, but sadly not the one that really annoyed me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can't imagine this release was pushed out to just address the minor issue, wonder what else was addressed?

Mark has been informed of my findings and I'll report back any response and document it in the tracker.

[lewisfrancis]

I've just updated to v1.20 but didn't notice any relevant changes (I didn't spend much time either).

But one thing continues to bother me and I don't know if it's a bug or if I'm using the program incorrectly:

If I change the name of a program in the editor in the banks overview or on the program page, it is changed directly in Take 5 after pressing "OK", but apparently not saved. If I then change the program in the synth or in the program, the name is as before the change.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to press "write" manually on the synth when changing names?

Thanks in advance for any tips on this.

Hey, it should either automatically save to the selected synth memory location or to the edit buffer, depending on how you go about it. The following is from Mark at SoundTower:

When in the Program Banks view, if you load single programs using the mouse right-click popup menu then programs should be automatically written to a selected bank/program slot. When single programs are loaded via window menu then they are only loaded to the edit buffer.

Unfortunately this was a pre-existing bug on the Mac (and maybe Win as well?) that doesn't appear to have been addressed in v1.2.0. Are you still unable to rename patches in Bank 5 or higher in the Banks> User view?

[lewisfrancis]

Hey, it should either automatically save to the selected synth memory location or to the edit buffer, depending on how you go about it. The following is from Mark at SoundTower:

When in the Program Banks view, if you load single programs using the mouse right-click popup menu then programs should be automatically written to a selected bank/program slot. When single programs are loaded via window menu then they are only loaded to the edit buffer.

Ugh. Is Mark referring to selected bank/program slots in the editor or in the synth? I assumed the latter but realize the response is somewhat ambiguous as written. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nordlicht]

Renaming programs - I've just checked this issue again:

- Renaming via right click on a program in the banks view works, but only for the first 4 USER banks! The renaming window doesn't open at all when trying to rename a program in this way from USER bank 5 and above.
- After having renamed a program (USER 1 to 4) via right click the respective program name is instantly and permanently overwritten in the synth - so that's the proper  way it should work.
- When renaming a program via clicking on the name in the program/parameter view, the name is changed in the program and in the synth's display, but obviously only in the edit buffer. When changing the program in the synth (without manually writing) the new name is gone.

So this is a real bug and I will write to the support so that he will have a look at it. 

[Nordlicht]

I already got an answer from Soundtower/Mark:

"Yeah, this was the original restriction for renaming only first 4 USER banks. We forgot to lift it in the Bank View. However, there is no such restrictions in the Program Bank Manager and Librarian.
Regarding the renaming in the Edit Buffer, this is correct. If you do not write that program any changes will disappear."

So my observations are correct. I replied to him that it would be great if they would apply the possibility to change program names directly in the Bank View for all Banks. This limitation to User Banks 1-4 is hardly to understand as it doesn't make any sense.
Let's hope they will do this.

[lewisfrancis]

Hey, it should either automatically save to the selected synth memory location or to the edit buffer, depending on how you go about it. The following is from Mark at SoundTower:

When in the Program Banks view, if you load single programs using the mouse right-click popup menu then programs should be automatically written to a selected bank/program slot. When single programs are loaded via window menu then they are only loaded to the edit buffer.

Ugh. Is Mark referring to selected bank/program slots in the editor or in the synth? I assumed the latter but realize the response is somewhat ambiguous as written. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok, Looking at the docs I can confirm that loading in sysex via the contextual menu on a patch slot in the Banks view should write the new patch to the Take 5, not just the edit buffer, which is what it currently does.

Pasted, renamed, loaded and initialized programs will be automatically written to the TAKE 5 at the selected Bank/Program location.

If you like to load saved single programs only to the edit buffer only, then use the Load Single Program function located under the window File menu.

[ElecStraTake]

As indicated in my previous post of last May :
- renaming a program or modifying the sound in the editor modifies only the synth buffer, and you need to perform a write to actually store the modification in the synth. This is done via the menu Edit > Write Program in the editor. Or you can do a write directly on the synth.
- renaming by right clicking on a program in the banks list is immediate / direct.

This works for me on my Windows laptop but I haven't renamed a program from bank 4 and above.

Having said that, there is a newer version 1.2.2 that has just been released.
I've just tried it and no problem for renaming a program in any bank.

[lewisfrancis]

As indicated in my previous post of last May :
- renaming a program or modifying the sound in the editor modifies only the synth buffer, and you need to perform a write to actually store the modification in the synth. This is done via the menu Edit > Write Program in the editor. Or you can do a write directly on the synth.
- renaming by right clicking on a program in the banks list is immediate / direct.

This works for me on my Windows laptop but I haven't renamed a program from bank 4 and above.

Having said that, there is a newer version 1.2.2 that has just been released.
I've just tried it and no problem for renaming a program in any bank.

Confirmed that bank patch renaming now works for banks >4 in v1.22 on the Mac.

However, loading saved sysex into patch slots continue to only fill the edit buffer, contrary to what the docs state.

Also noticed that the MIDI connectivity settings don't seem to take effect until after you quit and restart the app. I think that has been a problem since at least 1.1.4 but I forgot to document it in my tracker, will update now.

On the plus side I didn't have to re-enter my name and registration code this time.

[lewisfrancis]

Checked in again with SoundTower and found that while the plugin version fixes are still in queue, the standalone editor has a new 1.2 release available. https://www.soundtower.com/take5/take5_download.html

Hope to give it a once over tonight.

Unfortunately out of the issues I'm documenting at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oGQgRp5CB7B3_HEjjB2cJ0NfWLHRRKE4K2HqXfwkvx8/edit?usp=sharing the two major issues were not fixed as promised, at least on the Mac side. One minor issue was addressed, but sadly not the one that really annoyed me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can't imagine this release was pushed out to just address the minor issue, wonder what else was addressed?

Mark has been informed of my findings and I'll report back any response and document it in the tracker.

Anyone have SoundTower news about upcoming bug fixes? Have tried contacting a couple times but haven't heard anything back, just sent another query. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ElecStraTake]

Hi,
There is a new version of the editor : v1.4.0.
I haven't tried it yet.
From the video, there are some GUI improvements including a zoom feature.

[lewisfrancis]

Hi,
There is a new version of the editor : v1.4.0.
I haven't tried it yet.
From the video, there are some GUI improvements including a zoom feature.

The new GUI features are welcome but I'm surprised that the zoom is so sluggish on my Apple Silicon MBP. Once you've zoomed the interface, you can no longer scroll the extended banks interface. Guess I'll add that to my bug tracker.

UPDATE: After a few more minutes of testing I realized that the banks panel scrollbar only works when the banks panel has focus -- after zooming focus returns to the main interface and you have to click on a bank patch in order for the banks scrollbar to again function. Ideally when a user clicks in the scroll well or on the scroll thumb then the banks panel would activate and respond but only clicking on a bank patch results in panel activation.

None of the remaining issues in my bug tracker have been addressed by this update -- in trying to validate one of the issues I uncovered an overlooked bug that's been present since at least v1.1.4 where attempting to load a sysex file from the File > Load SysEx File menu item always results in a No TAKE 5 Programs Data found in this file! error msg. Does this work for any of you Windows users?