Experience with SoundTower plugins (Sound Editor and PlugSE) for Take 5

[lewisfrancis]

Hi all,

I've just updated to the recent version 1.14 of the Editor (for the new OS 2.0) and checked "my old bugs" (see post above).
Fortunately it seems that several issues are solved but I still have the following problems. Perhaps someone of you can also check or confirm them:

- Renaming a program in the software still isn't stored/updated in the synth
- Renaming by right clicking on the program in the banks overview still doesn't work.

Thanks in advance!

I can confirm that both of those operations work in the Mac version standalone v1.14 Take 5 editor.

[Nordlicht]

Hi all,

I've just updated to the recent version 1.14 of the Editor (for the new OS 2.0) and checked "my old bugs" (see post above).
Fortunately it seems that several issues are solved but I still have the following problems. Perhaps someone of you can also check or confirm them:

- Renaming a program in the software still isn't stored/updated in the synth
- Renaming by right clicking on the program in the banks overview still doesn't work.

Thanks in advance!

I can confirm that both of those operations work in the Mac version standalone v1.14 Take 5 editor.

Thanks for checking!
I’ll contact then Soundtower support.

[lewisfrancis]

In the standalone editor changing the filter cutoff knob on the Take 5 looks janky/jerky/stuttery in the Editor equivalent knob animation, which is super-odd as control movement of any other knob is emulated smoothly, and it works fine in the plugin version. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This appears to be an optimization that is present in the PlugSE version but hasn't made it to the standalone editor yet.

Sadly, this issue remains unaddressed in the Mac version standalone v1.14 Take 5 editor.

[lewisfrancis]

With the release of the v2 Take 5 OS I purchased both the Sound Tower standalone and plugin editors and am slowly becoming acquainted with their features and have a couple questions:

• Any tips on using the sequencer edit facility? It's still undocumented afaict.
• While using the control version of PlugSE in Logic I've noticed that the Take 5 is unresponsive until you wiggle the synths volume pot. Anyone else seeing this?

I don't remember the latter when I previewed the demo version with the .22 version firmware beta, but there was so much other weirdness resulting from not understanding the demo limitations that I might not have recognized the issue. I'm running with Local off when using PlugSE as there appear to be feedback issues otherwise.

[lewisfrancis]

While using the control version of PlugSE in Logic I've noticed that the Take 5 is unresponsive until you wiggle the synths volume pot. Anyone else seeing this?

What appears to be happening is when you first initialize PlugSE that the Master Volume is set to zero, even after retrieving the active settings. Wiggling the Master Volume, either on the synth or in the plugin UI then "wakes up" the PlugSE as well as bring the level of the Take 5 up from zero. Not sure if this is a bug or by design for the PlugSE to send a MIDI Volume level message when it first launches, guess I'll ask Mark.

FYI if anyone runs into this, too, using version 1.3.0.

[lewisfrancis]

While using the control version of PlugSE in Logic I've noticed that the Take 5 is unresponsive until you wiggle the synths volume pot. Anyone else seeing this?

What appears to be happening is when you first initialize PlugSE that the Master Volume is set to zero, even after retrieving the active settings. Wiggling the Master Volume, either on the synth or in the plugin UI then "wakes up" the PlugSE as well as bring the level of the Take 5 up from zero. Not sure if this is a bug or by design for the PlugSE to send a MIDI Volume level message when it first launches, guess I'll ask Mark.

FYI if anyone runs into this, too, using version 1.3.0.

Mark is at NAMM this week but said it appears they should not have automated the volume knob in PlugSE, hopefully we'll see a quick fix.

[ElecStraTake]

Hi,
I'm trying right now the sound editor for the T5 (v2.0).
Some features intrigue me.
I'm wondering whether they are hidden features of the T5 or features only of the editor :
- what are the "phantom program banks" ? What are they for ?
- is the Category of a program somehow stored in the T5 ? Is it only an association between a program name and a Category managed by the editor ?
Thanks for any clue.

[lewisfrancis]

Hi,
I'm trying right now the sound editor for the T5 (v2.0).
Some features intrigue me.
I'm wondering whether they are hidden features of the T5 or features only of the editor :
- what are the "phantom program banks" ? What are they for ?
- is the Category of a program somehow stored in the T5 ? Is it only an association between a program name and a Category managed by the editor ?
Thanks for any clue.

The phantom program bank thing is undocumented and I didn't get a response when I asked Mark about its function. My assumption was that it had to do with the then-in-beta expanded memory locations, but as I haven't needed the extra space yet I haven't tested that assumption.

Pretty sure Category is a Librarian-only indexing feature.

[ElecStraTake]

The phantom program bank thing is undocumented and I didn't get a response when I asked Mark about its function. My assumption was that it had to do with the then-in-beta expanded memory locations, but as I haven't needed the extra space yet I haven't tested that assumption.

Pretty sure Category is a Librarian-only indexing feature.

The editor v1.1.4 supports officially the T5 OS v2.0 with expanded memory locations but the phantom program bank feature is still there. It's a pity that you didn't get a response from the developer.
I tend to agree with you on the Category feature.

[lewisfrancis]

The phantom program bank thing is undocumented and I didn't get a response when I asked Mark about its function. My assumption was that it had to do with the then-in-beta expanded memory locations, but as I haven't needed the extra space yet I haven't tested that assumption.

Pretty sure Category is a Librarian-only indexing feature.

The editor v1.1.4 supports officially the T5 OS v2.0 with expanded memory locations but the phantom program bank feature is still there. It's a pity that you didn't get a response from the developer.
I tend to agree with you on the Category feature.

Oh, the other thing the phantom banks might be is for overwriting the factory preset area, which I think you can't do from the T5 on its own? Maybe some who have had the tool longer than I can explain it for us.

[ElecStraTake]

You cannot modify factory preset from the synth.

But you can load sounds into the factory location via Sysex.
So I guess the sound editor should be able to modify directly sounds in the factory location by sending Sysex messages under the hood.

I'm still trying the editor by running it in demo mode. So I can't confirm that.
I hope that the phantom program bank is not just for writing into the factory location.

[ElecStraTake]

Regarding the Program Category, I've made some experimentation :
- On the T5 :
   - I've initialized a user program, then made some adjustment to the sound and saved it with the name X1
   - I've saved a factory program into a user program (next to the previous one) with a completely different name : X2
- Then on the Editor :
    - I've "received" the user bank containing the 2 user programs : X1 has unassigned category, but X2 has the same category as the factory program !

So it seems like the Category is somehow stored in the Program memory.

[lewisfrancis]

Regarding the Program Category, I've made some experimentation :
- On the T5 :
   - I've initialized a user program, then made some adjustment to the sound and saved it with the name X1
   - I've saved a factory program into a user program (next to the previous one) with a completely different name : X2
- Then on the Editor :
    - I've "received" the user bank containing the 2 user programs : X1 has unassigned category, but X2 has the same category as the factory program !

So it seems like the Category is somehow stored in the Program memory.

Huh, interesting. What happens if you edit a saved Factory patch before retrieving it with the editor -- does it still have  an associated category?

[ElecStraTake]

Huh, interesting. What happens if you edit a saved Factory patch before retrieving it with the editor -- does it still have  an associated category?

Yes, the associated category is kept.
With the demo mode, I can't save a category change in a program.
You could try on your side what I've done in an empty user bank (e.g bank G) to confirm the behavior.

[lewisfrancis]

Huh, interesting. What happens if you edit a saved Factory patch before retrieving it with the editor -- does it still have  an associated category?

Yes, the associated category is kept.
With the demo mode, I can't save a category change in a program.
You could try on your side what I've done in an empty user bank (e.g bank G) to confirm the behavior.

Ok, I'll take a look later tonight. Are you on the Mac or Win version of the SoundTower standalone?

[ElecStraTake]

I'm using the Windows version of the standalone editor.

[Antony]

You cannot modify factory preset from the synth.

You can copy User banks to Factory Banks using Debug menu on the synth.

* it does copy new banks 9 - 16 too.

It's not ideal but maybe of use to someone

[lewisfrancis]

I'm using the Windows version of the standalone editor.

So I can't really tell if category info is saved with a user patch or not. I tested by copying the identical patch to two user locations, assigned a category to only one of them, then saved both individually as sysex format patch text files. Then I tried to load the category-assigned patch file into the non-categorized patch location in the editor Banks view and... nothing.

This feature appears to be broken in my Mac v1.1.4 version of the standalone editor.

A hex compare of the two files shows no difference, which suggests that the category info is not saved with the file, but that's assuming the files are written correctly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[lewisfrancis]

I'm using the Windows version of the standalone editor.

So I can't really tell if category info is saved with a user patch or not. I tested by copying the identical patch to two user locations, assigned a category to only one of them, then saved both individually as sysex format patch text files. Then I tried to load the category-assigned patch file into the non-categorized patch location in the editor Banks view and... nothing.

This feature appears to be broken in my Mac v1.1.4 version of the standalone editor.

A hex compare of the two files shows no difference, which suggests that the category info is not saved with the file, but that's assuming the files are written correctly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Welp, now I'm confused.

Thinking if the sysex files were properly written, I could maybe use a different sysex utility and send and save the two files to the T5, then retrieve them into the SoundTower standalone and see if the category data is preserved, and that does appear to be the case.

However, the two sysex files are identical, according to my hex editor, so how is the category information being preserved?

UPDATE: My bad, needed to switch to a tool that properly compared hex files -- the two files are different and so categorization is def preserved in the memory structure and sysex dumps.

[ElecStraTake]

UPDATE: My bad, needed to switch to a tool that properly compared hex files -- the two files are different and so categorization is def preserved in the memory structure and sysex dumps.

Cool ! Thanks for your tests.
It seems that the Take 5 has room in its current program memory structure for potential new features !

I'll probably purchase the stand-alone sound editor for the Library and Category features.

I'm just annoyed by the following issues (specific to the Windows platform ?) :
- When clicking on ´Envelopes', the section containing the Envelope Routing button is not shown so I have to scroll horizontally a bit
- Scrolling with 2 fingers on the touchpad of my laptop doesn't work. I have to click on the list buttons or the list scrollbar to navigate within horizontal and vertical lists (as found in the Bank section). The scrolling via a mouse wheel works though but most of the time I don't use a mouse especially when I connect my laptop to the T5 (I don't have the space for that).

I'll reach SoundTower support.