Oscillator Slop has no effect

Shea

Oscillator Slop has no effect
« on: July 28, 2016, 07:25:38 PM »
I've never been able to get any effect from using the slop parameter. It's very noticeable on, say, the prophet 6 I tried last month, especially all the way at 5.

I abandoned that parameter and just use an lfo for slop now.

Just wondering if this is a known bug or if I should reflash my voice OS or something.

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 12:32:19 AM »
For me i don't see any difference by using it...

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 03:25:43 AM »
I just tested this now, and oscillator "slop" is working as expected on my Tempest.

You might want to check that "SYNC 1->2" is not engaged, because that would negate any pitch drift introduced by the "slop" parameter.  And just to be thorough, "slop" does not apply to the digital oscillators.

At any rate, it's working here.

Cheers!

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 05:55:00 AM »
I don't know about yours but in mine i can't hear any drifting even if i listen through headphones.
I just tested this now, and oscillator "slop" is working as expected on my Tempest.

You might want to check that "SYNC 1->2" is not engaged, because that would negate any pitch drift introduced by the "slop" parameter.  And just to be thorough, "slop" does not apply to the digital oscillators.

At any rate, it's working here.

Cheers!

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 12:35:21 AM »
Are you trying to hear it using one oscillator or two, Yorgos?  Try dialing up two saw waves, same pitch, no detune, no sync, no slop, slow amp attack, filter open... If you play and hold a single note, the two oscillators are clearly exactly in tune with each other.  Then while you're still sustaining the note, turn the slop setting all the way to '5'... If you can't hear the random beating of the oscillators drifting in and out of tune with each other, I don't know what to say.  It's working on my Tempest, and indeed always has.

I don't know about yours but in mine i can't hear any drifting even if i listen through headphones.
I just tested this now, and oscillator "slop" is working as expected on my Tempest.

You might want to check that "SYNC 1->2" is not engaged, because that would negate any pitch drift introduced by the "slop" parameter.  And just to be thorough, "slop" does not apply to the digital oscillators.

At any rate, it's working here.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 12:40:18 AM by John the Savage »

Shea

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 10:41:21 AM »
Are you trying to hear it using one oscillator or two, Yorgos?  Try dialing up two saw waves, same pitch, no detune, no sync, no slop, slow amp attack, filter open... If you play and hold a single note, the two oscillators are clearly exactly in tune with each other.  Then while you're still sustaining the note, turn the slop setting all the way to '5'... If you can't hear the random beating of the oscillators drifting in and out of tune with each other, I don't know what to say.  It's working on my Tempest, and indeed always has.

does the slop feature on your tempest work similar to below?



that's what i would expect oscillator slop to mean, basically a lax of control over the exact pitch of the oscillators. however, what i get sounds like a phase drift (and yes, sync is turned off).

here is a demonstation: http://picosong.com/t7u4/

this is an initialized patch with a saw for osc 1 and 2. in the first ten seconds i turn slop all the way to 5. after 0:10 i begin mixing in osc 2 with slop turned off again. at 0:19 i sustain a note and begin turning slop up. as you said, i do notice a drift when comparing the osc side by side. but this is not a tuning drift, but what sounds like phasing.

at 0:35 i tweak the patch to something i might use in a real situation and play some chords. the 50/50 mix with a slop of 5 does create a nice unison effect which you hear at 0:50, but not the slop functionality of other sequential/dsi synths.

if you listen on, at 1:15 i mimic slop by using lfo 1, random waveform routed to osc1 pitch. i have lfo 1's freq at 0, and amount varying from 1-8. an amount of 1 introduces a drift of about 10 cents according to ableton's tuner. with note reset on, i feel this is a close emulation of slop, but any higher than a slop of 2 becomes very detuned. it would be nice to have a more gradual control of cent variance.

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2016, 06:26:10 PM »
Hi Shea,

Well, it may not have the effect you were hoping for; but your test does prove at least that the slop parameter does in fact work.  Your original post claims that it doesn't do anything at all, and Yorgos agreed.  I simply said that it was working on my Tempest as it always has.  I wasn't offering my subjective opinion.

If you're looking for a more noticeable slop effect with less phasing, you might try detuning the oscillators by a couple of cents using the 'fine tune' parameter first, and then apply the slop as needed.

Cheers!

chysn

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Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2016, 06:45:42 PM »
Oscillator slop is ridiculously subtle with the P8/Mopho/Tetra architecture. When I had a Mopho, I basically never used it because it was almost inaudible. I don't know about the Tempest, but if it seems like it's not doing anything, it's probably working right.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 06:51:02 PM by chysn »
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Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2016, 06:26:56 AM »
Oscillator slop is ridiculously subtle with the P8/Mopho/Tetra architecture. When I had a Mopho, I basically never used it because it was almost inaudible. I don't know about the Tempest, but if it seems like it's not doing anything, it's probably working right.
To my ears it is the same on the Tempest as it is on the Mopho. I definitely prefer the implementation in the Prophet 6. It can easily go from not at all, through just enough and then all the way to way too much.

Shea

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2016, 08:54:02 AM »
You're right, John. I guess the takeaway here is slop on tempest is a relative effect, that is it is only audible, as far as I can tell, when compare to another oscillator. It's usable, but I do think it could be implemented better.

Slop on the newer synths, however, are objective, and clearly audible even when no other osc are in the mix.

That said, this thread is not a request thread! I'm fine with the tempest as is and haven't even installed the beta. I just wanted to confirm I wasn't the only one.

Shea

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2017, 10:07:52 AM »
I wonder if the slop behavior could be updated to the prophet 6's style through a firmware update.

Revisiting this it seems like a 90% wasted parameter.

bozo

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2017, 07:32:38 AM »

I spent a lot of time and came to this "is that all it does?, its not much different to using fine tuning"

idm

Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 10:15:16 AM »
I look at it as an extra randomizer. It does have effect and every little bit gets picked up by ear. It's subtle but I find useful.

Jinsai

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Re: Oscillator Slop has no effect
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 10:07:52 AM »
I wonder if the slop behavior could be updated to the prophet 6's style through a firmware update.

Revisiting this it seems like a 90% wasted parameter.

Tempest uses very similar DCOs to the early DSI line (Evolver, Mopho, Tetra, etc.) and the "slop" parameter for those synths is subtle.

Prophet 6 has an entirely different oscillator circuit design and implementation, as does the Prophet 12.

I believe if it were possible to have more or sloppier slop, DSI would have implemented it already. It is a rather subtle thing, but it does work.

Generally "reflashing" your OS is never a good troubleshooting step.