3rd Wave

[LoboLives]

4x multi-timbral 24-voice wavetable Synthesizer with 3 wavetable oscillators, 2 analog filters (SVF morph & ladder lowpass), 4 LFOs, 4 envelopes, 2 FXs, and a sequencer.

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/05/groove-synthesis-3rd-wave-teaser-new-wavetable-synthesizer-with-ppg-wave-optics.html#comment-93764

Looks promising....although Groove Synthesis is a terrible name.

"3rd Wave comes from the new company Groove Synthesis from the founder Geoff Farr. A developer who already worked for Modal Electronics, UDO Audio, or on the tube Synthesizer Knifonium."

He also worked with Oberheim as well when Tom was doing SEMs/Two Voice Pros.

[jok3r]

4x multi-timbral 24-voice wavetable Synthesizer with 3 wavetable oscillators, 2 analog filters (SVF morph & ladder lowpass), 4 LFOs, 4 envelopes, 2 FXs, and a sequencer.

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/05/groove-synthesis-3rd-wave-teaser-new-wavetable-synthesizer-with-ppg-wave-optics.html#comment-93764

Looks promising....although Groove Synthesis is a terrible name.

"3rd Wave comes from the new company Groove Synthesis from the founder Geoff Farr. A developer who already worked for Modal Electronics, UDO Audio, or on the tube Synthesizer Knifonium."

He also worked with Oberheim as well when Tom was doing SEMs/Two Voice Pros.

Sounds exciting. I'm not overly excited about wavetables + analog filters, since my PEAK covers this ground for me, but this thing looks definitely interesting with all that knobs.

I especially like how you linked us directly to your comment about the name 

[LoboLives]

4x multi-timbral 24-voice wavetable Synthesizer with 3 wavetable oscillators, 2 analog filters (SVF morph & ladder lowpass), 4 LFOs, 4 envelopes, 2 FXs, and a sequencer.

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/05/groove-synthesis-3rd-wave-teaser-new-wavetable-synthesizer-with-ppg-wave-optics.html#comment-93764

Looks promising....although Groove Synthesis is a terrible name.

"3rd Wave comes from the new company Groove Synthesis from the founder Geoff Farr. A developer who already worked for Modal Electronics, UDO Audio, or on the tube Synthesizer Knifonium."

He also worked with Oberheim as well when Tom was doing SEMs/Two Voice Pros.

Sounds exciting. I'm not overly excited about wavetables + analog filters, since my PEAK covers this ground for me, but this thing looks definitely interesting with all that knobs.

I especially like how you linked us directly to your comment about the name 

 

[chysn]

I like it, it sounds fantastic.

The demo video is gone now, though, removed from the company's Instagram account, and not accessible at their web site. That's weird.

I don't see any problem with the name.

[LoboLives]

I don't see any problem with the name.

I dunno, I think it just sounds immature and it's linguistically awkward. Like naming a guitar brand "Cool Guitar". Not "Cool" but "Cool Guitar" as the actual brand name. Compare it to Sequential, Oberheim, Moog, ARP, Novation, Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Elektron. "Groove Synthesis" just doesn't roll of the tongue. 

[chysn]

I don't see any problem with the name.

I dunno, I think it just sounds immature and it's linguistically awkward. Like naming a guitar brand "Cool Guitar". Not "Cool" but "Cool Guitar" as the actual brand name. Compare it to Sequential, Oberheim, Moog, ARP, Novation, Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Elektron. "Groove Synthesis" just doesn't roll of the tongue.

The worst name for a synth company has to be Moog Music. 60 years and nobody knows how to pronounce it, despite 60 years of them explaining how to pronounce it. Korg is also kind of an absurd string of phonemes. If a company named "Korg" started today, would you seriously not criticize that name?

Groove's name will grow into the company, if the instrument is worth it.

I think they should tell people that it's pronounced "Grove." 

[LoboLives]

BOOM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=yZ-s9YW7JgA&feature=emb_logo

[LPF83]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

[LoboLives]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

[LPF83]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

[LoboLives]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

[LPF83]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

Yes but getting a true VCO sound out of software is something that software struggles to do without using an enormous amount of CPU (and even then something still seems missing), while wave tables are kind of like FM synthesis -- something software does quite well and has been for some time, so I think the appeal here is the tactile interface and retro vibe. 

An Oberheim four voice is on Reverb currently for $29,999...  meanwhile one can pick up a Wavestation or a DX7 for a few hundred bucks.   The case for a high dollar digital synth is a much harder one to make.

[LoboLives]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

Yes but getting a true VCO sound out of software is something that software struggles to do without using an enormous amount of CPU (and even then something still seems missing), while wave tables are kind of like FM synthesis -- something software does quite well and has been for some time, so I think the appeal here is the tactile interface and retro vibe. 

An Oberheim four voice is on Reverb currently for $29,999...  meanwhile one can pick up a Wavestation or a DX7 for a few hundred bucks.   The case for a high dollar digital synth is a much harder one to make.

It doesn't matter.....look at the C15, Solaris, Iridium, Quantum, M, Fantom, Montage, K2700. All expensive investments.

[LPF83]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

Yes but getting a true VCO sound out of software is something that software struggles to do without using an enormous amount of CPU (and even then something still seems missing), while wave tables are kind of like FM synthesis -- something software does quite well and has been for some time, so I think the appeal here is the tactile interface and retro vibe. 

An Oberheim four voice is on Reverb currently for $29,999...  meanwhile one can pick up a Wavestation or a DX7 for a few hundred bucks.   The case for a high dollar digital synth is a much harder one to make.

It doesn't matter.....look at the C15, Solaris, Iridium, Quantum, M, Fantom, Montage, K2700. All expensive investments.

Not saying any of the new instruments are being given away for free, just again suggesting that with....

Iridium - $2,159
M - $1,577
Montage 6 - $2,555
K2700 - $2,555

... it would make a $5k synth from a brand nobody has heard of a really hard sell.

[LoboLives]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

Yes but getting a true VCO sound out of software is something that software struggles to do without using an enormous amount of CPU (and even then something still seems missing), while wave tables are kind of like FM synthesis -- something software does quite well and has been for some time, so I think the appeal here is the tactile interface and retro vibe. 

An Oberheim four voice is on Reverb currently for $29,999...  meanwhile one can pick up a Wavestation or a DX7 for a few hundred bucks.   The case for a high dollar digital synth is a much harder one to make.

It doesn't matter.....look at the C15, Solaris, Iridium, Quantum, M, Fantom, Montage, K2700. All expensive investments.

Not saying any of the new instruments are being given away for free, just again suggesting that with....

Iridium - $2,159
M - $1,577
Montage 6 - $2,555
K2700 - $2,555

... it would make a $5k synth from a brand nobody has heard of a really hard sell.

It's probably just a small run from a boutique company tho. Solaris is $4K last time I checked, C15 is $5K. They aren't intended this to be a mass market product like the ones listed above.

[LPF83]

Any word on the planned MSRP?

My guess $5000+

I don't think they will sell well at that price point, it's not a reissue of the PPG Wave, it's an inspired-by design by an unproven company.  I would expect the price point to be more something like a Super 6, especially when I can get a Waldorf M desktop for around $1,600 from Thomanns, or for about same a Virus TI2 with 16 part multitimbral, individual FX per part, etc.  I dig the buttons and ample knobbery, but I'm thinking $2,220 or so would be more appropriate..

I hope you are right but I have a feeling because it's a boutique company they are going to try and justify an exorbitant cost simply because.....PPG Wave. I know it's not a reissue or a clone but it feels like something Waldorf should have come up with already as a successor to the PPG Wave and that might be enough.

Keep in mind they were charging $5000+ for an Oberheim Two Voice Pro....that's 2 voices and no patch memory and now they are charging about the same for the OBX8.

At this point synth companies are going to jack up their prices to offset chip shortages.

Yes but getting a true VCO sound out of software is something that software struggles to do without using an enormous amount of CPU (and even then something still seems missing), while wave tables are kind of like FM synthesis -- something software does quite well and has been for some time, so I think the appeal here is the tactile interface and retro vibe. 

An Oberheim four voice is on Reverb currently for $29,999...  meanwhile one can pick up a Wavestation or a DX7 for a few hundred bucks.   The case for a high dollar digital synth is a much harder one to make.

It doesn't matter.....look at the C15, Solaris, Iridium, Quantum, M, Fantom, Montage, K2700. All expensive investments.

Not saying any of the new instruments are being given away for free, just again suggesting that with....

Iridium - $2,159
M - $1,577
Montage 6 - $2,555
K2700 - $2,555

... it would make a $5k synth from a brand nobody has heard of a really hard sell.

It's probably just a small run from a boutique company tho. Solaris is $4K last time I checked, C15 is $5K. They aren't intended this to be a mass market product like the ones listed above.

Which is fine, and would be in line with my original point that they wouldn't sell well (i.e. decent quantities) at that price point.  John Bowen is sort of outside the scope of a nobody, and the C15 is sort of an experiment in how much folks are willing to pay for a great looking hunk of wood running a VST IMO.

[LoboLives]

It will sell well enough to offset the chip shortage issue.

They don't want to run into a situation like Korg where things are announced and then never actually go anywhere because they can't make them due to supply shortages. Or companies taking orders and having a 2 year waiting list and not updating customers.

Same reason why the OBX8 is so expensive. Marcus even admitted that the demand is going to be higher than what they can produce. How do you offset this? You increase the cost so that it's just out of range for most people and only possible for a select few to obtain. So the amount of units they have to make isn't as much as something mass produced for $2500 that's made in the USA (which is next to impossible economically) It doesn't matter if it's analog or digital. It would be worse for the company to charge $2500 for something they can't produce enough of and fall behind on orders. Trust me, been there, done that. From a customer's point of view, the backlash the company would receive would kill any honeymoon period a new announcement has.

[LPF83]

It will sell well enough to offset the chip shortage issue.

They don't want to run into a situation like Korg where things are announced and then never actually go anywhere because they can't make them due to supply shortages. Or companies taking orders and having a 2 year waiting list and not updating customers.

Same reason why the OBX8 is so expensive. Marcus even admitted that the demand is going to be higher than what they can produce. How do you offset this? You increase the cost so that it's just out of range for most people and only possible for a select few to obtain. So the amount of units they have to make isn't as much as something mass produced for $2500 that's made in the USA (which is next to impossible economically) It doesn't matter if it's analog or digital. It would be worse for the company to charge $2500 for something they can't produce enough of and fall behind on orders. Trust me, been there, done that. From a customer's point of view, the backlash the company would receive would kill any honeymoon period a new announcement has.

I get what you're saying, but I mean the OB-X8 is still a fantastic deal, adjusted for inflation, compared to the MSRP of the original 80's Oberheim equivalent.  I'm not sure I can say the same about a $5k digital synth.  Anyway I'd like to wait and see what the MSRP is before over-thinking it too much (beyond what I already have:)) ...   I do think overall it's smarter for a new company to set the price at something they think will be maintainable long-term rather than try to increase or lower it constantly every few years as the economic picture fluctuates.  Customers are a fickle bunch and don't forget easily if they feel they've been gouged, so for long term health of a company it may be better to have orders higher than supply allows but maintain an attractive price point.  Just my POV

[LPF83]

Looks like MSRP = $3,800

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/06/namm-2022-groove-synthesis-3rd-wave-multi-timbra-wavetable-synthesizer-full-details.html

[LoboLives]

Looks like MSRP = $3,800

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2022/06/namm-2022-groove-synthesis-3rd-wave-multi-timbra-wavetable-synthesizer-full-details.html

I had a gut feeling. It's not the $5000 mark but still..