3rd Wave

Soundquest · « **Reply #60 on:** March 20, 2024, 10:51:55 AM »

Thanks for the detailed reply. I did flop over to non-free running and that definitely helped. I probably could stand to read the manual again

. Speaking of envelopes...have you messed with the traditional PPG envelope setting? Seems pretty touchy on the attack front end.

LPF83 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 20, 2024, 05:06:05 PM »

Quote from: Soundquest on March 20, 2024, 10:51:55 AM

Thanks for the detailed reply. I did flop over to non-free running and that definitely helped. I probably could stand to read the manual again . Speaking of envelopes...have you messed with the traditional PPG envelope setting? Seems pretty touchy on the attack front end.

Yes! The Exponential vs PPG envelopes are a feature of the synth that I don't think has been covered very well in most videos. I've never played a real PPG but I wonder if this is one of the defining characteristics of the PPG sound.

One way to highlight how different they really sound even beyond just sensitivity is to try the amp envelope with each, setting Sustain=0 and Release=0 and adjust only Attack and Decay, but put the envelope in Repeat = On, using the Decay value to control the tempo (so that it's sort of Arp-like at any given speed). Now switch the envelope mode and notice not only the difference required of Attack and Decay values (PPG values will be much lower for a given tempo, very sensitive to small changes like you said), but the difference in the sound itself.

Having such dramatically different envelopes adds a great deal of character to this synth!

Soundquest · « **Reply #62 on:** March 22, 2024, 10:28:20 AM »

Good to know, I'll give that a try.

LPF83 · « **Reply #63 on:** April 01, 2024, 05:27:41 AM »

There's an important new menu option in firmware 1.7x that can help with eliminating clicks.

From the release notes:
"New MISC setting per part Envelope retrigger mode to choose between env restarting from 0 or starting from the last value it reached when voice is retriggered. Use the latter for notes with super short gates. This gives you the method of re-trigger in many, (but not all), older analog synthesizers".

So by starting subsequent notes at the same amplitude as the last rather than zero, the click from sudden change in amplitude becomes reduced or eliminated entirely. To hear the difference, try a single sine wave on unison (with 1 voice selected) and play short notes quickly (so that the next note is guaranteed to pick up the amplitude of the previous note), and toggle back and forth between the two Envelope Retrigger Mode options. The benefit becomes lessened as the number of voices increases, but that one of the tradeoffs of polyphony I guess.

Soundquest · « **Reply #64 on:** April 01, 2024, 10:05:03 AM »

Ok, thanks LPF83. I had not noticed that addition/option. I'll give that a try

Soundquest · « **Reply #65 on:** April 03, 2024, 07:49:16 AM »

I wish the sequencer was truly independently usable on 4 (or even two) separate layers. If you program one layer it automatically gates the other layers which limits its ability. I've had some workaround success by splitting the keyboard so you can sort of achieve some separation. Another easier way to get some separation is setting arp on one layer and sequencing another layer.

LPF83 · « **Reply #66 on:** April 03, 2024, 04:14:11 PM »

Quote from: Soundquest on April 03, 2024, 07:49:16 AM

I wish the sequencer was truly independently usable on 4 (or even two) separate layers. If you program one layer it automatically gates the other layers which limits its ability. I've had some workaround success by splitting the keyboard so you can sort of achieve some separation. Another easier way to get some separation is setting arp on one layer and sequencing another layer.

I have only done very superficial things with the sequencer, but yeah I didn't get the impression it was designed to be a fully featured 4 track sequencer. It's moderately useful for previewing how layers might sound interacting with each other, or if doing sound design putting together a multi layer demo of each program to quickly hear what's inside.

I can recommend the Keystep Pro for 4 track sequencing -- I actually have two of these things that I use in two separate rooms, one in black and one chroma edition (chroma edition is really nice because you can change the track LED colors). Some may have an initially negative response to the small keys, but firstly it is a well built piece of gear and the keys have a truly nice feel to them, and secondly I don't view it as a primary keyboard. It is just a very feature rich multi track sequencer with built in keys for input and great immediacy.

Soundquest · « **Reply #67 on:** April 04, 2024, 08:01:16 AM »

Thanks for your input LPF83. I actually have the Keystep pro. I agree, it's a very good sequencer and I experimented with sending different tracks to each of the 3rd Wave layers.

LPF83 · « **Reply #68 on:** May 14, 2024, 04:26:48 AM »

Now with sampling...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l-AYy8nDUs

I can only imagine how samples run through the sweet filters on this thing sound in person, I can't wait!

Soundquest · « **Reply #69 on:** May 14, 2024, 09:00:08 AM »

Wholly unexpected and awesome! I never had a hardware sampler and I always like that concept to how the Prophet X combined synth and samples. Any idea how many samples spaces it holds?

LPF83 · « **Reply #70 on:** May 14, 2024, 03:32:21 PM »

Quote from: Soundquest on May 14, 2024, 09:00:08 AM

Wholly unexpected and awesome! I never had a hardware sampler and I always like that concept to how the Prophet X combined synth and samples. Any idea how many samples spaces it holds?

I believe 30 seconds total at 16 bits, but not sure about that. Samples are mono, but its kind of irrelevant since you can do anything with them that you can do with an oscillator, so part 1 pan left part 2 pan right etc. for binaural stereo.

LoboLives · « **Reply #71 on:** May 14, 2024, 07:19:34 PM »

It’s a nice upgrade. While it’s not really at the level of a Prophet X in regards to sample memory, it feels like it’s a nice nod to potential “things to come” from a future Groove Synthesis product.

LPF83 · « **Reply #72 on:** May 15, 2024, 03:22:04 AM »

Quote from: LoboLives on May 14, 2024, 07:19:34 PM

It’s a nice upgrade. While it’s not really at the level of a Prophet X in regards to sample memory, it feels like it’s a nice nod to potential “things to come” from a future Groove Synthesis product.

It's being touted as bringing the PPG WaveTerm experience to the 3rdWave, so it's possible they could release some sort of expansion module to take it to the next level. Hopefully not with floppy drives though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPG_Wave#/media/File:PPG_Wave_2.3_and_Waveterm.jpg

LPF83 · « **Reply #73 on:** May 17, 2024, 05:07:40 AM »

Sampling teaser with Bob @ SuperBooth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkCXzARiqlA

LPF83 · « **Reply #74 on:** May 24, 2024, 05:30:49 AM »

Update from Bob Coover on the Miles Away video comments:

"Final spec - We will have a total of 35 seconds and also lower sample rates that will give you more time. You can drop the bit depth from 16 to 12 or 8 bit as well. You can have 8 possible samples spread across the note range per patch that can be assigned any where on the keyboard. You can do looping with either equal gain or equal power crossfades with a settable crossfade length for each sample. And each multi-sample can be tuned independently. Any or all of the oscillators can be samples in addition to our other three oscillator types."

Very exciting!

Soundquest · « **Reply #75 on:** May 24, 2024, 07:24:37 AM »

Quote from: LPF83 on May 24, 2024, 05:30:49 AM

Update from Bob Coover on the Miles Away video comments:

"Final spec - We will have a total of 35 seconds and also lower sample rates that will give you more time. You can drop the bit depth from 16 to 12 or 8 bit as well. You can have 8 possible samples spread across the note range per patch that can be assigned any where on the keyboard. You can do looping with either equal gain or equal power crossfades with a settable crossfade length for each sample. And each multi-sample can be tuned independently. Any or all of the oscillators can be samples in addition to our other three oscillator types."

Very exciting!

Sounds really cool. Was hoping this update would drop before the long weekend.

LPF83 · « **Reply #76 on:** May 24, 2024, 11:41:48 AM »

Quote from: Soundquest on May 24, 2024, 07:24:37 AM

Sounds really cool. Was hoping this update would drop before the long weekend.

That would have been nice, indeed.

Another side of me kind of hopes they take their time to get it right and test thoroughly before they release it, as being a beta tester is time consuming too

As far as I know all of the Groove team have day jobs and do this in their spare time. Pretty amazing what they've already accomplished!

LPF83 · « **Reply #77 on:** June 05, 2024, 04:48:37 PM »

The sampling option has been released!

https://youtu.be/lSCUiB2JwFY

LPF83 · « **Reply #78 on:** June 14, 2024, 03:48:06 AM »

Quote from: Soundquest on May 24, 2024, 07:24:37 AM

Sounds really cool. Was hoping this update would drop before the long weekend.

Curious if you've had a chance to try out the sampling feature? I'm in awe of how good everything sounds running through those lovely SSI 2140 filters. This is a feature I'm going to use often, for that reason alone. It's so easy to turn one sample into some amazing binaural magic.

So far I've been primarily loading samples I already have into the unit. I did briefly play around with sampling input from a mic just to try it out, but I'm not sure how regularly I will sample other instruments directly into the unit, I will probably sample some other way and just import them as I find that less fiddly.

Just being able to combine existing samples with all of the other features of the synths really opens a lot of doors!

Soundquest · « **Reply #79 on:** June 14, 2024, 09:57:48 AM »

Quote from: LPF83 on June 14, 2024, 03:48:06 AM

Quote from: Soundquest on May 24, 2024, 07:24:37 AM
Sounds really cool. Was hoping this update would drop before the long weekend.

Curious if you've had a chance to try out the sampling feature? I'm in awe of how good everything sounds running through those lovely SSI 2140 filters. This is a feature I'm going to use often, for that reason alone. It's so easy to turn one sample into some amazing binaural magic.

So far I've been primarily loading samples I already have into the unit. I did briefly play around with sampling input from a mic just to try it out, but I'm not sure how regularly I will sample other instruments directly into the unit, I will probably sample some other way and just import them as I find that less fiddly.

Just being able to combine existing samples with all of the other features of the synths really opens a lot of doors!

I have. I originally tried the direct recording input, but in most cases I'll have my samples already recorded and just transfer them in as a wav file. I did notice some of my samples were quite low audio output compared to the oscillators. I had to go back and boost them up in Audacity before reimporting them. Wish there was a gain knob for import file just as there is for the direct record. Still trying to get my head around the multi sample thing across the keyboard. Seems a little awkward to me still. But for now I'm perfectly happy with a single sample across the range.

I like strings, so I may play with getting some dulcimer and banjo thing going. A sample pack of some general orchestra instruments would be nice if Groove could supply. Not sure I fully understand why some folks are wanting to introduce ppg audio samples. I mean we already have the waveforms and instrument in place to mimic that. I think this whole sampling thing will be a fun diversion for me for a bit. I'm glad to have it, but ultimately the big magic in this unit is the wavetables as a starting point..