Juno X

[LPF83]

https://www.gearnews.com/roland-juno-x-is-this-the-modern-roland-polysynth-weve-been-waiting-for/

It's Zencore ..  doesn't mean I won't keep an eye on it, just not a big fan of the Zencore

[chysn]

A rare situation here, that I learned more from the comment section than I did from the article.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

[LPF83]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

No kidding.  How have they not gotten the message that people are begging for Juno reissues?  Personally I have no interest these instruments.  But the demand is obvious.

[LoboLives]

The issue isn't the engine itself.....it's the fact Roland is falling into the same situation as Akai (releasing the same synth engine but in different cases/formats).

The ZenCore is essentially the extension of Linear Arithmetic synthesis found in the D50 and JD800, and yet they want to focus on slapping names of their golden oldies to sell it rather than letting it be it's own thing. There's expansions and add ons of analog emulations and yet the JD 8000 expansion is only available for the Jupiter X and none of the other synths, the Fantom 0 series doesn't even have any compatible expansions and there's no D50 expansion at all.

Roland is a company that seems to go "We have this excellent idea.....how do we fuck it up?".

The JDXa was an excellent concept and sounded great but plagued by a horrible user interface.
The System 8 engine was fresh and unique but the product was pushed to emulate Jupiters and Junos instead of being it's own thing.

The same issue is happening with ZenCore. We have Roland doing wavetable synthesis engines with N/Zyme and ZenCore with combining virtual analog and PCM samples as the evolution of linear arithmetic synthesis ...and yet they are focusing on showing emulations of Jupiters and Junos.

[LoboLives]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

They design the future....not the past

[LoboLives]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

No kidding.  How have they not gotten the message that people are begging for Juno reissues?  Personally I have no interest these instruments.  But the demand is obvious.

It's not a case for reissues...but they did do the JDXa so they CAN still do analog....the issue is they aren't expanding on it. They could easily do a new poly synth with analog and digital oscillators like the JDXa but with more polyphony and a better interface etc....in fact they could have done this with their Jupiter X and Juno X synths....but instead they just made another digital emulation in a different vintage case.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

They design the future....not the past

But they can do both and both are worth doing.  The future will have its lemons just as the past has had them. 

[LoboLives]

This is an emulation of past instruments.  It's not what people have been asking for, which is a bona fide 60 or 106.

I don't understand why Roland is not investing directly in the resurgence of analog.

They design the future....not the past

But they can do both and both are worth doing.  The future will have its lemons just as the past has had them.

I think Roland has this gut feeling that if they were to do a Jupiter 8 reissue or Juno reissue people would be more focused on "Does it sound like the original" rather than "Does it sound good."

Personally, I'd love to see the next step AFTER the Jupiter 8 in regards to analog. Jupiter 10.

[Sacred Synthesis]

It certainly sounds "nice," but there's something so generic about the overall Juno tone.  I find pads that use a chorus effect in place of a second oscillator to be strikingly tepid.  But I'm sure Mr. Starsky Carr will soon enough be comparing it side-by-side with a real Juno 106.

[LoboLives]

It certainly sounds "nice," but there's something so generic about the overall Juno tone.  I find pads that use a chorus effect in place of a second oscillator to be strikingly tepid.  But I'm sure Mr. Starsky Carr will soon enough be comparing it side-by-side with a real Juno 106.

I think the Juno tone as a whole is thin naturally but beefed up with chorus. The issue with a lot of these emulations is they try and beef it up before the chorus is even added.

[LPF83]

It certainly sounds "nice," but there's something so generic about the overall Juno tone.  I find pads that use a chorus effect in place of a second oscillator to be strikingly tepid.  But I'm sure Mr. Starsky Carr will soon enough be comparing it side-by-side with a real Juno 106.

One thing about original Junos, is they were ubiquitous so the tone is literally all over so many tracks from the 80's on...  so you typically don't hear new and fresh tones out of them.   However a real Juno 106 (the only Juno I've ever owned) has a certain sparkle/juiciness to it -- it's hard for me to tell if it's present in a YT video, I'll have to hear some side by side comparisons.  I appreciate Starsky's videos greatly...  Hopefully since there are so many Junos out there, we'll get no shortage of comparison reviews.  I like to hear patch matching with some playing, I don't think that just listing to oscillators and filters is enough to really highlight the difference.  I like to hear length of envelopes, how individual sounds hold up in the lower and upper register extremes, etc.

Given the number of features the thing has, if it comes close enough it may be worth a look.  I'm perhaps going in with some bias because of so many folks with both System 8s and Jupiter X/Xm that say the ACB emulation in the System 8 sound better.  While I appreciate lots of features I'm more about the core sound, and I'd rather a synth focus on producing the best sound it possibly can within a certain range than spread itself too thin with features and gimmicks and try to produce a wider range of sounds.

About chorus... I think proper use of chorus is kind of an art in itself..  there are sweet spots to getting the left and right channels working just right...I try to never look at it as just a fattening blanket..  I treat it as I would a second oscillator, where I tweak carefully and get the phasing between the two just right.  The single oscillator + chorus sound is kind of an acquired taste I guess.  As fat as the P10's oscillators are, a lot of times I find myself using only one, using the second as an LFO for polymod, and thinning out the first oscillator on purpose to use it as raw material for treatment with chorus fx.

I was kind of hoping they would just do the System 8 engine in case design like this (if they can't do a full on analog reissue). 

Anyway for the near future looks like an Obie is jonesing for my spending dollar so a closer look at this one will have to wait.

[LPF83]

It's not a case for reissues...but they did do the JDXa so they CAN still do analog....the issue is they aren't expanding on it.

That's kind of what I meant about analog being neglected.  When the JD-XA came out, they called it a crossover synth and at the time I thought that meant it was going to be their "bridge" back into analog...  After all Dave didn't just come out of nowhere and do the Rev 4... he sort of worked his way back up gradually one product at a time, often with less expensive to manufacture synths that were probably less risky for a small company starting back.  I thought Roland was starting to build the internal mind-share to do great analogs again.  But really the JD-XA isn't amazing sounding (IMHO).. not bad but only 4 voices polyphony for analog.

I heard somewhere that Korg has had a plan in place to build internally a team of great analog engineers.  I assume this may be one reason they're going back to their roots for the reissues (MiniKorg, ARP etc) and starting with monosynths.  Supposely analog polys are much harder to get right, it's apparently much more involved just adding more voices.

A lot of old Roland synths used proprietary components... it's possible that the difficulty/cost of spinning up the manufacturing of those individual parts these days is just not a book they're interested in re-opening or can justify.  Dave has said before if they hadn't started manufacturing the old parts for the Prophet 5 again he wouldn't have been able to do it. 

[LoboLives]

It's not a case for reissues...but they did do the JDXa so they CAN still do analog....the issue is they aren't expanding on it.

That's kind of what I meant about analog being neglected.  When the JD-XA came out, they called it a crossover synth and at the time I thought that meant it was going to be their "bridge" back into analog...  After all Dave didn't just come out of nowhere and do the Rev 4... he sort of worked his way back up gradually one product at a time, often with less expensive to manufacture synths that were probably less risky for a small company starting back.  I thought Roland was starting to build the internal mind-share to do great analogs again.  But really the JD-XA isn't amazing sounding (IMHO).. not bad but only 4 voices polyphony for analog.

I heard somewhere that Korg has had a plan in place to build internally a team of great analog engineers.  I assume this may be one reason they're going back to their roots for the reissues (MiniKorg, ARP etc) and starting with monosynths.  Supposely analog polys are much harder to get right, it's apparently much more involved just adding more voices.

A lot of old Roland synths used proprietary components... it's possible that the difficulty/cost of spinning up the manufacturing of those individual parts these days is just not a book they're interested in re-opening or can justify.  Dave has said before if they hadn't started manufacturing the old parts for the Prophet 5 again he wouldn't have been able to do it.

I disagree about the JDXa not sounding amazing. It does when you program it properly.

Korg already did a poly synth with the Minilogue and Prologue.....so it's not like they are starting something new for them. Although those are more hybrids with the one digital oscillator. I think they are focusing on reissues of vintage mono synths because they know there's a market for it. I think their main focus is more on their digital synths (Wavestate, Modwave and OpSix) as it should be. Much more interesting.

[LPF83]

It's not a case for reissues...but they did do the JDXa so they CAN still do analog....the issue is they aren't expanding on it.

That's kind of what I meant about analog being neglected.  When the JD-XA came out, they called it a crossover synth and at the time I thought that meant it was going to be their "bridge" back into analog...  After all Dave didn't just come out of nowhere and do the Rev 4... he sort of worked his way back up gradually one product at a time, often with less expensive to manufacture synths that were probably less risky for a small company starting back.  I thought Roland was starting to build the internal mind-share to do great analogs again.  But really the JD-XA isn't amazing sounding (IMHO).. not bad but only 4 voices polyphony for analog.

I heard somewhere that Korg has had a plan in place to build internally a team of great analog engineers.  I assume this may be one reason they're going back to their roots for the reissues (MiniKorg, ARP etc) and starting with monosynths.  Supposely analog polys are much harder to get right, it's apparently much more involved just adding more voices.

A lot of old Roland synths used proprietary components... it's possible that the difficulty/cost of spinning up the manufacturing of those individual parts these days is just not a book they're interested in re-opening or can justify.  Dave has said before if they hadn't started manufacturing the old parts for the Prophet 5 again he wouldn't have been able to do it.

I disagree about the JDXa not sounding amazing. It does when you program it properly.

Korg already did a poly synth with the Minilogue and Prologue.....so it's not like they are starting something new for them. Although those are more hybrids with the one digital oscillator. I think they are focusing on reissues of vintage mono synths because they know there's a market for it. I think their main focus is more on their digital synths (Wavestate, Modwave and OpSix) as it should be. Much more interesting.

That Korg recognizes the market for analog and vintage reissues is (to my understanding) why they're trying to rebuild momentum with regard to the internal knowledge.  The Minilogue XD is great bang for the buck, but its not in the same league sonically as some of their 80's era VCO based synths.  Prologue isn't a bad synth, but the sound never grabbed me and I didn't feel it was competitive in sound with the Rev2.... and certainly no replacement for a Polysix.

As far as Opsix/Wavestate etc., they now have these in plugin form which apparently sound identical to the hardware, so in my view buying the synth is really kind of like buying an expensive dedicated controller that can only control one plugin -- not an attractive proposition when studio space is a premium.  Also of those three plugins, Opsix would be the first one I'd be inclined to try, because I always loved the sound of the DX7... sadly though it sounds nothing like a DX7, despite having the same OP algorithms and being able to load DX7 patches on it.  If I want a good sounding FM synth and/ emulation of a DX7, Chipsynth OPS7 really does FM right.  Not saying that Opsix sounds bad, I may even pick up the plugin some day, but there's a certain color to the tone that, if one is hoping it can sound like a DX7, is just disappointing.

That said, I've found Korg's plugins to be very good.  The Polysix, even though old is quite good for a softsynth.  The Wavestation plugin is about as authentic sounding as I could ask for in a soft synth.

About JD-XA I have to confess I haven't heard one in person so I can only judge the sound by YT demos...  I don't count Kebu's videos because he makes every synth sound great and is ultimately pitching for Roland.

[LPF83]

Mr. Tuna patch match

[LPF83]

Andertons comparison.  Wish Jack would turn on the noise in the Juno X, and also do tests of both of them dry "no chorus" so the comparison is on more even ground.  Yeah the chorus hiss is annoying in the 106 but it also breathes something into the tone.