Behringer synth teasers

[Razmo]

And the Behringer bashing has begun... *sigh*

No Behringer bashing here, simply because I never owned anything they produced. I only operated their mixers while a was a projectionist for a while.

The look is object to a personal matter of taste I guess, so there's really not much to argue about.

The only thing I'm concerned about with regard to a company like Behringer is production ethics. - Yeah, I hear the cynics say, "stop moralizing" or "then throw away your computer." However, this discussion will depend on the price they're planning to sell at.

Will they compete with DSI et al? - Yes. Is the comparison just? - No, since Behringer, or rather the Music Group conglomerate is a huge hypercapitalist manufacturer following nowadays' Silicon Valley business model that has production capacities that simply don't compare to small companies like DSI, Moog, Elektron, Vermona, Modal Electronics, and the likes.

The only things I know with regard to the production process at Behringer are based on Uli Behringer's statements. According to these, he thinks that engineers are paid the same in China, the US, and Europe, he adds fitness studios to the mix of employee self-optimization, and that all manufacturing steps "below" engineering are purely automatized.

I cannot argue with the moral point, as I'm a firm believer in spreading wealth on this earth, and I do not like when companies get too big and leaves no room for others to share in wealth... but seen from a consumer's point of view, most musical products are very expensive, if you look at other areas of electronics... especially consumer products... and then comes the debate on quality, which of course cost more.

But I still feel that this market could use a dip down in price, since the devices MOOG and DSI produce is rather expensive... that way more (poor) people could get these products... Behringer hsa allways targeted their products at these people... and I certainly hope they will this time too.

Yes... they will compete with Modal and DSI... it's obvious that is what Uli actualy want to, because in a video he is quoted for having insisted that the DeepMind should be 12 voice, and not 8 as the engineers had first thought... this to me is a clear sign that Uli want to compete with other 12 voice machines, and there are only two... 001 and P12

I'm pretty exited about this synth actually, if it delivers... every parameter is MIDI controllable (was stated in a video)... has TC and Klark effects (quality)... fully analog... 12 voices... I'm only waiting for ONE thing more... a rack version, and some in depth info on MIDI specs.

[Razmo]

good presets that are not soaked in compression / distortion / reverb like a bad Saturday afternoon at Guitar Center.

What baffles me is how many people go crazy about the effect section. While it indeed seems to offer quite flexible routings and all that (pic below), it's still an add-on and not really the core of what makes an analog synth appealing. I mean it's absolutely practical for live purposes, but some fellows act as if Behringer were the first to do that.

Baffled? ... i's probably because some people use the synth in another way than you are used to... to me build in effects is a god sent, because they can be part of the program itself... to me FX is a vital sound sculpting tool and if it's not part of the preset, you cannot use them to tailor them to a specific sound... it's not overly important to have them, but it's certainly a nice addition.

Delays and Reverbs I usualy want to add externally because these are FX that create space and depth and the illusion of the instruments being in the same space... thus they are needed as master FX... these I can live without on a synth... but all the modulation FX I really like to have as part of the machine... the "insert FX" so to speak... chorus, flanger, phaser, distortion etc... but delay and reverb can also be useful in the sound design.

[Razmo]

I do understand though, that people want to hear the raw dry sound of the thing... I would like that too... but I'm certain that will come as soon as it has been released and the first few geeks has gotten their hands on one... especialy if all the prior videos from Behringer has not shown any dry sounds... the first thing they will do is produce a video with tests and stuff ... I'm not one for being the "first buyer" anyway, as I like to wait a bit and see what people find (bugs etc.), so there is plenty of time to hear the raw sound as well before making the plunge ..

[Shaw]

I'm curious to see this thing compete with DSI and Modal as well... And I think it will come down to basic things things (at least at first) -- sound quality, feature set / modulation matrix, and price.


So far the rumour mill seems fairly positive on sound and price.  I mean the demos we've seen online do sound good, and the $1500 price point for a 12-voice poly is very competitive.


I've yet to see anything on the modulation matrix... I think this will be key because that is the domain where the P12 and 001 really shine. Both have very deep modulation capabilities and are a large part of what makes these synths stand above the rest of heard.

[Razmo]

I don't think it will compete that much with the P12 actually because it's analog... P12 has digital oscillators capable of doing stuff that the Behringer will not touch... I'd probably rather compare it to the P8.

[Paul Dither]

Yes... they will compete with Modal and DSI... it's obvious that is what Uli actualy want to, because in a video he is quoted for having insisted that the DeepMind should be 12 voice, and not 8 as the engineers had first thought... this to me is a clear sign that Uli want to compete with other 12 voice machines, and there are only two... 001 and P12

Technically, they might compete against those, but then the Prophet 12 and the 002 are hybrids, and especially the Prophet 12 offers a modulation matrix that hasn't been surpassed by any other hardware manufacturer. Also, when it comes to sonic characteristics, products like the Prophet 12 and the 002 are not designed for an audience that exclusively craves an analog poly in the first place.

[Paul Dither]

Baffled? ... i's probably because some people use the synth in another way than you are used to... to me build in effects is a god sent, because they can be part of the program itself... to me FX is a vital sound sculpting tool and if it's not part of the preset, you cannot use them to tailor them to a specific sound... it's not overly important to have them, but it's certainly a nice addition.

Nah. I said that I understand that you can use effects right away as sound sculpturing ingredients just on the same level as oscillators, filters, etc. There's no right and wrong in how and when to use effects (the rights and wrongs are determined by a particular goal only, nothing else). I'm only baffled by the fact that in some reactions towards this synth, the effects have become the center of attention, that's all. Because effects are not what makes an analog synth of any kind particularly desirable in the first place.

[Razmo]

Baffled? ... i's probably because some people use the synth in another way than you are used to... to me build in effects is a god sent, because they can be part of the program itself... to me FX is a vital sound sculpting tool and if it's not part of the preset, you cannot use them to tailor them to a specific sound... it's not overly important to have them, but it's certainly a nice addition.

Nah. I said that I understand that you can use effects right away as sound sculpturing ingredients just on the same level as oscillators, filters, etc. There's no right and wrong in how and when to use effects (the rights and wrongs are determined by a particular goal only, nothing else). I'm only baffled by the fact that in some reactions towards this synth, the effects have become the center of attention, that's all. Because effects are not what makes an analog synth of any kind particularly desirable in the first place.

Well... I'd say that I'll eave that decision to the individual buyer... I bet there are some for whom, the FX is a major decision factor... personally they are a big part of the whole package, but certainly not all.

I'd say, that if you wanted to have an analog synth with keys for live playing, FX built in could be an immense advantage because you would not have to drag external FX along with you, and you would be free from having to dial in the needed FX on these between sets... with built in FX, these would follow the preset.

Actualy I'm glad to see this trend of putting digital FX in with analog synths... Hypersynth Xenophone, P12, P6, OB6 and now the Behringer too...

by the way... I've seen a picture a couple of days ago, depicting a desktop version of the Behringer synth... it was released by Uli himself, asking if this would be something people would want to see... I hope it'll be made...

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

As always, there is always a huge fly in the ointment. 49 keys. 12 voices (great) and 49 keys haha, not great.

[chysn]

As always, there is always a huge fly in the ointment. 49 keys. 12 voices (great) and 49 keys haha, not great.

Sheesh, not for a 12-voice poly. What's the point, even?

[Sacred Synthesis]

I thought the keyboard length was one of the most glaring shortcomings.  This 49-note business is an unhealthy arrangement for serious keyboardists.  It's a musical blight like mini-keys.

[DavidDever]

I thought the keyboard length was one of the most glaring shortcomings.  This 49-note business is an unhealthy arrangement for serious keyboardists.  It's a musical blight like mini-keys.

I'd rather have 49 full-size keys, though, than this:

[Paul Dither]

I think for up to 6 voices, 49 keys are fine. But everything from 8 voices on should have 61 keys.

[Shaw]

I thought the keyboard length was one of the most glaring shortcomings.  This 49-note business is an unhealthy arrangement for serious keyboardists.  It's a musical blight like mini-keys.

I hate mini-keys!!!!   

[Sacred Synthesis]

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about DSI producing mini-keys.  They've taken an oath of fidelity to the standard size.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I think for up to 6 voices, 49 keys are fine. But everything from 8 voices on should have 61 keys.

I would agree with that.  There's a place for 49-note synthesizers, but the total design should make sense; fewer voices, fewer keys.  Personally, though, I think 49-keys is the ideal number for a mono synth. 

[BobTheDog]

the module looks good though:

[Razmo]

I thought the keyboard length was one of the most glaring shortcomings.  This 49-note business is an unhealthy arrangement for serious keyboardists.  It's a musical blight like mini-keys.

That depends a lot upon how you use your keyboard... 49 is the absolute minimum for me, but I can certainly live with it, even though I also prefer playing live... I think it has a lot to do with what genres you play, and what way you record. Playing a huge range makes the frequency spectrum you occupy a lot larger, allowing less space for other tracks to "!be there" as well.

I know that you record everything in one go, not doing "tracks" in that sense, so I can certainly understand your concern... but actualy, having 3 to 4 octaves can be an advantage, if you record in tracks because you will automatically be restricted to a certain part of the frequency spectrum for anything you play... play the lead in one track... shift a few octaves down, and then do the bass... etc. etc...

I often find that with a large amount of keys, I tend to go all over the range with just a single instrument... that leaves less room for other instruments later on.

I'm not dissing the need for longer keybeds, don't get me wrong... but not everyone needs 5-7 octaves... even if they are live players... there should be "frequency room" for the other players as well.

Let's just hope, that Behringer will do like Yamaha usually does... create different keysizes... then everyone can be happy (as long as they do module versions as well)

[Razmo]

the module looks good though:

Very much! ... I certainly hope it will be reality

[chysn]

What are all those Edit buttons for?