The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Prophet 12 Music

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2017, 09:19:53 AM »
I'm still of the opinion that the Evolver has the sonic edge, but the Prophet 12 has immensely impressed me.  There's just something about having all that power under your fingertips.  And I don't hold it against the instrument that the mono signal is unsatisfactory.  I'm obviously able to solve that problem in two different ways. 

If I actually buy a Prophet 12, I'll do the usual pairing of a Keyboard and a Module.  I would much prefer to have twelve voices mirror each other, rather than have the ping pong effect.  But you were right, Mr. Kay, in your complimentary comments about the P12, and I was wrong in my criticisms.  The fact it, basing one's judgment of a musical instrument on YouTube videos alone is a faulty approach, not because of the audio quality, because YouTube's quality is good enough.  Rather, it's a faulty approach because of what people do with the instrument in the videos.  I could find hardly a single synthesist who would use the P12 as I would.  There are hours and hours of the instrument being used to make very gritty, nasal, metallic sounds that tend to give me a headache or an earache, or both.  That is the real problem, and it's the reason I've many times suggested that DSI should take synthesizer demonstrations much more seriously. 

Producing these fabulous instruments, but then leaving them to be globally demonstrated by folks who don't seem interested in drawing out the sweet, lush, and exclusively musical side is a bit of a career risk, in my opinion.  I realize this view rubs some people the wrong way, but so be it; it's the truth.  If the Prophet 12 had been demonstrated in such a way, I certainly would have bought one two or three years ago, and I'm sure this would have been the case with many other musicians as well. 

One of the more common comments that I get from listeners to my YouTube channel is: "Unlike a hundred other videos I've listened to, your demonstrations of the Prophet '08 or Poly Evolver Keyboard have brought out the musical side, and for that reason I just ordered one".  I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm boasting, but I've gotten this comment many times.  DSI should establish a mean by which a variety of musicians demonstrate their new instruments by means of pieces of music.  It's the only way of countering the inevitable - that YouTube will be inundated with videos that fail to do DSI synthesizers justice.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 04:35:20 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

eXode

  • ***
  • 251
Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2017, 09:27:23 AM »
I don't understand why the Prophet 12, or REV2 for that matter, wasn't graced with a "DUAL" mode that would basically stack two voices on top of each other and where pan spread would simply pan the two voice further apart in the stereo field. Seems like a fairly easy thing to do and would give you instant stereo goodness.

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2017, 09:45:16 AM »
So to tell you which one is the best between the P'12 and the PEK, I'd say the norman answer "m'ybe the PEK, m'ybe the P'12!", both are fantastic but structurally different, then they don't fulfill exactly the same needs...


I bought one of the 1st PEK's and had lots of fun with it and used it on some recordings.  IIRC you could add an evolver to bring the polyphony up from 4 voices to 5...never tried it myself.  Problem was, the PEK's tiny LCD screen drove me absolutely nuts!  I hated it!  If the PEK would have had the highly detailed OLED of the P12 module, I probably never would have sold it and eventually replaced it with a P12  ;)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 09:46:49 AM by WytchCrypt »
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2017, 03:59:47 PM »
I don't understand why the Prophet 12, or REV2 for that matter, wasn't graced with a "DUAL" mode that would basically stack two voices on top of each other and where pan spread would simply pan the two voice further apart in the stereo field. Seems like a fairly easy thing to do and would give you instant stereo goodness.

The Rev2 can accomplish this pretty easily by using the Fixed option for Pan Modulation Mode in the Misc Params. It allows a wide, fixed stereo field made up of both layers. You can read more about it on page 62 of the manual.

It does require a little bit of setup so I understand it's not the same as having a dedicated button, but I wanted to point out it's possible without too much fuss.
SEQUENTIAL

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2017, 03:46:41 AM »
There's just something about having all that power under your fingertips.

That's definitely the feeling this synth gives me when I play it, and the fantastic UI helps to handle it ;D


The fact it, basing one's judgment of a musical instrument on YouTube videos alone is a faulty approach, not because of the audio quality, because YouTube's quality is good enough.

Yup, YouTube alters a little the sound, but not enough to make a beautiful sound sounding like crap. Personnally, I prefer trying synths before buying them, playing some factory presets and then initiate a basic patch to evaluate the oscillators and filter sections since heavy effects use can make illusion (ex : the Access Virus).

I made an exception with the P'12, but there were an early video where Dave made a presentation of the separated features and I crossed it with the InHalt videos of the P'08 vs P5 and OB8 (*) and my own experience with my Mopho Kb, so I took the risk to order one without having tried it.

(*) I was considering buying an old OB at the time I bought my P'12.


Producing these fabulous instruments, but then leaving them to be globally demonstrated by folks who don't seem interested in drawing out the sweet, lush, and exclusively musical side is a bit of a career risk, in my opinion.

The synth market changed... In the 70's and early 80's, costly analog polyphonic synths were used to try to emulate strings, horns, brasses, drums, but came the samplers and the romplers to fulfill those needs for a fraction of the price...

And today, most of DSI buyers are touring musicians who wanna add a vintage electro vibe to their rig and they're more likely to prefer the compacts and idiot proof Prophet'08, Prophet 6 and OB-6 rather than big and advanced PEK, Pro-2 and Prophet 12, which are mostly buyed by techno and electro-industrial freaks (ex : Trent Reznor, Cevin Key...)

The last time I tried a PEK, I noticed there was a sequenced preset called "Cars", it's a reference to Gary Numan's song, itself inspired by J.G. Ballard's novell "Crash!"  ;D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 04:12:24 AM by Mr Kay »

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2017, 08:00:26 AM »
I saw a post on GS and then took the time to listen to the work. If this doesn't sell more Prophet 12's I don't know which patch libraries will. These are the kinds of patches that separate the old school bread and butter from the now and the future. All the patches are set up for all modulations making them playable without messing up the structure of the sound-perfect for producers and inspiring for synthesists.

Seriously, check out what is possible when the P12 is in the right hands:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12760293-post3269.html

The above link contains the direct links to the sound designer's soundcloud demos.

Otherwise just go here and click on the pictures to link to the demos: https://sellfy.com/black_materia








Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2017, 12:34:12 PM »
I had to do it.  Prophet 12 Brass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOb03S1-KoM
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:54:19 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2017, 12:35:31 PM »
Prophet 12 Brass

Just found it on youtube. It sounds great (as always). :)
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2017, 12:48:17 PM »
Thanks, DSLsynth.  I have this instrument only for another three weeks, so I'll just keep knocking out the demonstrations.  Then I'll see if I've convinced myself to buy one some day.  Hopefully, I will also have helped others to better appreciate the instrument.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:51:25 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2017, 01:11:06 PM »
Thanks, DSLsynth.  I have this instrument only for another three weeks, so I'll just keep knocking out the demonstrations.

Very cool! I hope you get so much experience with it that you can decide how much you like it. Is that a keyboard or module edition you borrowed?

As for the discussion about Prophet 12 vs Evolver there is nothing new under the sun: Analog oscillators matter even if mangled by the A/D -> DSP -> D/A excursion. Digital oscillator implementation matter too as different realization have different sonic properties. To be honest I think the next sensible step in the evolution of digital oscillators would be to look towards Modal 002's NCO design. Or at very least offering more than one way to render the oscillator signal.

With that said if I was offered a Prophet 12 Module at a price I could afford and was it channel-per-voice multi-timbral I would very likely buy one. For now however, that is entirely computer science fiction and financial fiction. And who knows if a more interesting voice architecture would show up one of these NAMM shows?
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2017, 01:27:17 PM »
It's the keyboard version.

Let me tell you a secret.  Don't tell anyone, okay?  For each sound I've programmed on the Prophet 12, the same patch on the Poly Evolver Keyboard has sounded even better.  I have another improvisation ready to go, and the PEK version sounded so much better that I was stunned.  But I'll post the P12 version anyways. 

The fact is, you just can't satisfactorily replace one instrument with another.  They're all too unique.  Hence, the Prophet 12 can't exactly replace a Poly Evolver, nor vice versa.  They both have their respective strengths and weaknesses.  However, the other lesson in all of this is that the Prophet 12 is a superb instrument, even from my old school viewpoint.  A person with my likes and tastes could positively be happy with it and do wonders on it.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2017, 01:35:03 PM »
The fact is, you just can't satisfactorily replace one instrument with another.  They're all too unique.  Hence, the Prophet 12 can't exactly replace a Poly Evolver, nor vice versa.  They both have their respective strengths and weaknesses.  However, the other lesson in all of this is that the Prophet 12 is a superb instrument, even from my old school viewpoint.  A person with my likes and tastes could positively be happy with it and do wonders on it.

Point taken! Have you found sounds where Prophet 12 really shines? Looking over its voice architecture can you spot interesting uses for your music? Have you tired the DC source -> Pan destination trick for stereo panning voices without using the layer B outputs?
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2017, 01:48:03 PM »
Point taken! Have you found sounds where Prophet 12 really shines? Looking over its voice architecture can you spot interesting uses for your music? Have you tired the DC source -> Pan destination trick for stereo panning voices without using the layer B outputs?

I think I already know where the instrument is strong, so I'm trying to learn where the instrument is weak, I'm and finding that it isn't weak where I had expected.  Does that make sense? 

I realize the instrument can be programmed for stereo, but it's not how I want to achieve it.  If I buy a P12, I'll do the usual pairing of keyboard and module.  No programming necessary and maximum flexibility.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dsetto

  • ***
  • 381
Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2017, 11:07:59 PM »
I was listening to YouTube things, and a Sacred Synthesis - Prophet 12 video popped up. Figured YouTube was making a mistake.

Improvisation LXXX for Prophet 12 and Poly Evolver Keyboard is lovely. Let's just say I wish you could keep your PEK's and get a 12. Even if it's simply a muse. I don't know what's doing what, so I can't comment on a comparison. ... And you are right, in the end, one's personal explorations of a synthesizer is what matters the most, and cannot be fully gleaned from 3rd party experiences. YouTube demos and specifications can give one a ballpark sense.

I can't wait to hear some videos that exploit what you believe are the strengths, and unique elements of the 12. (I like to test the potential weaknesses first, as well.)

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2017, 01:14:43 AM »
It's the keyboard version.

Let me tell you a secret.  Don't tell anyone, okay?  For each sound I've programmed on the Prophet 12, the same patch on the Poly Evolver Keyboard has sounded even better.

If you put exactly the same pot position, the P'12 will sound brighter because the filters are the same, but calibrated differently.

I noticed this when I tried to program my favourite Mopho sounds on my P'12, I had to lower a bit the cutoff and it sounded the same.

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2017, 02:30:30 AM »
I had to do it.  Prophet 12 Brass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOb03S1-KoM

That's funny. I was about to ask whether you tried to swap the roles the PEK and the Prophet 12 took over for Improvisation LXXX, which you kind of did now by playing the brass patch on the Prophet 12, albeit the settings don't seem to be exactly the same.

How much do you miss the true stereo filter on the Prophet 12?

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2017, 09:20:38 AM »
It's the keyboard version.

Let me tell you a secret.  Don't tell anyone, okay?  For each sound I've programmed on the Prophet 12, the same patch on the Poly Evolver Keyboard has sounded even better.

If you put exactly the same pot position, the P'12 will sound brighter because the filters are the same, but calibrated differently.

I noticed this when I tried to program my favourite Mopho sounds on my P'12, I had to lower a bit the cutoff and it sounded the same.

Yes, that's the case.  I'm not going by digits. though, but by ear.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2017, 09:23:39 AM »
How much do you miss the true stereo filter on the Prophet 12?

The way I have it configured, it's a snap to slightly offset the filter of one layer, so there's no missing of the Evolver's stereo filter.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2017, 04:09:52 PM »
Hi all,

a couple months ago I posted my P12 only recording of Holst's "The Planets" on SoundCloud and got lot's of great comments and listens.  Well, before I recorded "The Planets", I had recorded a P12 only arrangement of Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" and released it on a Morpheus album I called, "Vivacity".  I had just enough minutes left on my SoundCloud account to exactly fill it up with that album...so...I figured, why not?  I just uploaded it to SoundCloud at:

https://soundcloud.com/dennis-m-366105599/sets/vivacity-vivaldis-four-seasons-on-a-dsi-prophet-12-synthesizer

Like "The Planets", the whole album is exclusively P12 (with a little reverb added with my old Roland VS-1880 deck) with all of the sounds recorded in mono/unison mode.  I'd say I created about 80% of the patches myself.  If you heard my version of "The Planets", this one is coming from the same place...a love of 70's analog synths and my attempts to get the P12 to cover that ground. 

Hope you like it!

Dennis
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Prophet 12 Music
« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2017, 04:50:19 AM »
Stereo filter and polyphonic portamento:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_HhpoZW838

This instrument is really growing on me.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 06:58:55 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co