Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX

Elric

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Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« on: February 24, 2022, 03:02:14 PM »
My Pro 3 won't save out a single program. "Dump Current Program" does nothing when I hit Write.

Also, when I Dump Current Bank (that does work), first, it doesn't end with F7, then Sonar just throws out the data saying something like Error in Data, All Data Deleted (gee, thanks Sonar). MIDI_OX will let me save the data but always says "Error Saving File" when it's done. (There is a 32k file there though). - I'm worried these won't load back in later.

Why no F7 at the end of sysex dump?
Does Dump Current Program work for other people?
Does MIDI_OX error on save for other people?

Thx
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

chysn

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2022, 07:58:10 PM »
I can confirm that Dump Current Program works fine using SysEx Librarian for macOS. By "works," I mean that dumping a file to SysEx Librarian saves the file, and then sending that file back to the Pro 3 restores the program.

Likewise, "Dump Current Bank" works okay. Examining the file with xxd, there is F7 at the end.

So whatever's happening is likely software related, rather than some issue with the Pro 3.
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Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2022, 08:13:13 PM »
Thanks Chysn.

Yea, My Pro 3 doesn't go into "sending" mode when I press Dump Current Program / Write.

I had to turn up my MIDI_OX settings (Configure Sysex Buffers/Low Level Input Buffers) to 256 bytes / Num 136 to receive/fit the full dataset of a "Dump Current Bank" (about 33k - Okay, "32,768 bytes", that's probably 32k. Is that right for a "Dump Current Bank"?).
Sonar had room for like 2million bytes or something but didn't like the file!  Grr. (I have old Sonar Platinum, Win7, not the new Cakewalk free version.)

If it has no F7 at the end than I might lose my custom programs/patches?   :-\ 

Anyway, thanks again for the response.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 08:27:18 PM by Elric »
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2022, 08:37:37 PM »
I've done a bunch of Pro 3 patch dumps over the past few days, testing out some new web based sysex tools... You can try this:

https://www.presetpatch.com/sysextools/backup

Works with Chrome, Opera and Edge browsers.  (if the page successfully connects with In/Out of Pro 3 it should also provide options on page to send a patch request or current edit buffer request)..  and as long as you're signed in, you can then save a private backup and output a file to your computer..., or publicly share patches on the site if you want.   I've uploaded several here:

https://www.presetpatch.com/synth/sequential-pro-3

Single Patch Edit Buffers should be 4,693 bytes
Patches with Bank/Patch specified should be 4,695 bytes

Full banks of 128 patches should be should be 600,960 bytes
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 08:55:58 PM by creativespiral »

OB-X8, Pro 3, P6, Rev2, Take 5, 3rd Wave, Deepmind, PolyBrute, Sub 37
Sound Sets:
https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/
Free Patches:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2022, 10:17:22 PM »
Good start..? 
(Confirmed Firefox doesn't work. Went in thru Chrome and... found the old MIDISPORT 4x4)
I'll get back to you in a day or few...
(Though, I hate cloud programs.)

[(Update1/2:  Oh, duh, my fail. "MIDISPORT Out B"  Oops. Nevermind!)]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 10:56:34 PM by Elric »
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 12:07:38 AM »
Yeah, unfortunately only Chrome, Opera and Edge support MIDI connections through browser (currently).

Looks like it has passed the handshake and identified you have a Pro 3 connected.   Those "Request Current Patch Edit Buffer" and "Request Specific Patch" buttons should now be able to ask the Pro 3 to send the corresponding patch.   Or you can just ignore those buttons and initiate a MIDI sysex dump directly from the instrument, and the sysex window should receive all data, and count the bytes and F0F7 packets as well, if you're sending bulk dumps. 

You have to sign up for an account (free) to save sysex to a file, or to upload/share patches.   The save routine also does some more advanced analysis to verify the sysex is valid and complete, and determines what instrument it is for, and what type of sysex it is (edit buffer, specific patch location, wavetable, combo, bank, etc..) 

I'm generally not a huge fan of cloud programs either, but in this case, its the perfect tool for the job for the PresetPatch website... makes it far easier to quickly backup/share patches and direct load them from the website.  If you go to that Pro 3 page (https://www.presetpatch.com/synth/sequential-pro-3), you can now direct load sysex patches from other users right into the Pro 3 edit buffer to audition them, and then if you like them, you can save them.   I'm pretty happy with the performance so far... much more streamlined experience. 

Anyways, if you run into any issues, lemme know!  Cheers, Jason

OB-X8, Pro 3, P6, Rev2, Take 5, 3rd Wave, Deepmind, PolyBrute, Sub 37
Sound Sets:
https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/
Free Patches:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2022, 01:01:49 AM »

So "Dump Current Program" doesn't show on the Pro 3 menu I guess (Thought it wasn't doing anything), but it does send out this to MIDI_OX. No other program shows anything being received. But this is all I get.
Does this look like a part of a single program? (PWM Pad)

  - F0 Buffer:  256 bytes   System Exclusive

F0 01 31 02 00 1C 38 02 02 02 3C 3C 3C 02 4C 02 02 7E 7E 03 6F 1E 00 7E 08 0C 09 1C 1C 1C 00 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 01 02 00 02 40 40 40 04 00 7F 08 00 00 00 44 00 33 2D 00 20 02 00 00 01 00 00 00 78 01 64 7F 00 0C 00 28 01 03 2D 0C 3C 7F 00 40 03 00 00 01 09 14 65 42 6C 1E 00 03 00 00 0A 1C 12 4C 23 5F 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0B 1A 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 01 00 40 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 53 7F 65 7F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 46 1B 00 52 00 7F 1D 7F 1D 58 00 7F 00 16 50 59 2A 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1A 00 00 0E 0D 05 05 0D 0D 0E 00 0E 0E 05 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 00 00 00 3F 23 23 37 23 23 23 73 2F 4C 7F 01 17 7F 7F 7F 7F 7F 7F 00 7F


(creativespiral I get nothing showing up in the sysex window on your web tool, but this same data comes thru in MIDI_OX if I happen to have that open at the same time that I do a Request Current Patch Edit Buffer [I usually don't have it running at the same time].)

I'm trying the SoundTower Pro 3 Editor demo as well but it can't get the Pro 3 to respond to a dump request. (The "keyboard" does work so it is getting a signal to the keyboard.
Also, I'm doing this over a MIDI cable. I don't have a long enough USB yet. Does that make a difference?

This sucks.
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2022, 05:41:06 PM »

So "Dump Current Program" doesn't show on the Pro 3 menu I guess (Thought it wasn't doing anything), but it does send out this to MIDI_OX. No other program shows anything being received. But this is all I get.
Does this look like a part of a single program? (PWM Pad)

  - F0 Buffer:  256 bytes   System Exclusive

F0 01 31 02 00 1C 38 02 02 02 3C 3C 3C 02 4C 02 02 7E 7E 03 6F 1E 00 7E 08 0C 09 1C 1C 1C 00 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 01 02 00 02 40 40 40 04 00 7F 08 00 00 00 44 00 33 2D 00 20 02 00 00 01 00 00 00 78 01 64 7F 00 0C 00 28 01 03 2D 0C 3C 7F 00 40 03 00 00 01 09 14 65 42 6C 1E 00 03 00 00 0A 1C 12 4C 23 5F 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0B 1A 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 01 00 40 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 53 7F 65 7F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 46 1B 00 52 00 7F 1D 7F 1D 58 00 7F 00 16 50 59 2A 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1A 00 00 0E 0D 05 05 0D 0D 0E 00 0E 0E 05 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 00 00 00 3F 23 23 37 23 23 23 73 2F 4C 7F 01 17 7F 7F 7F 7F 7F 7F 00 7F


(creativespiral I get nothing showing up in the sysex window on your web tool, but this same data comes thru in MIDI_OX if I happen to have that open at the same time that I do a Request Current Patch Edit Buffer [I usually don't have it running at the same time].)

I'm trying the SoundTower Pro 3 Editor demo as well but it can't get the Pro 3 to respond to a dump request. (The "keyboard" does work so it is getting a signal to the keyboard.
Also, I'm doing this over a MIDI cable. I don't have a long enough USB yet. Does that make a difference?

This sucks.

Yeah, that's a partial dump of patch data.  From the first six bytes (F0 01 31 02 00 1C), I can see its Seq Pro 3 Patch data, from Bank 1, Patch 57.  The message is being cutoff prematurely at a 7F byte... there should be far more data for a patch (4695 bytes)    The sysex window on Preset Patch site will only show the data if its a complete, valid sysex message... which is not occurring in this case.   

How long are the MIDI cables you are using?  And what MIDI interface?   

A few recommendations: 

1. Don't have more than one program connected to your instrument at a time.   Generally, programs try to take exclusive control over the MIDI connections... so if you have two or more programs (DAW, MIDI-Ox, Web Interface) trying to access the same ports, it can cause issues.   Close all other MIDI/Audio apps when doing Sysex backups.   (Note: there are workarounds for this... I have a video where I discuss in more detail of how to use more than one program attached to your instruments via a MIO interface)   

2. You might try different MIDI cables or interface... especially if its a long cable run, like you're indicating... Try changing both the in and out midi cables with fresh, new ones.  If they are older cables and longer runs, this can cause data loss... I've had this happen before in the past.   

A USB cable is also a great option for longer runs and better reliability, and you get both in and out with a single cable.   (also Seq instruments are class compliant for MIDI USB, so they play nice with USB MIDI hubs like the MIO stuff) 

3. To access the MIDI dump controls on Pro 3, press Global, then the 4th button to access "Commands" ... all the dump options are in that menu.

OB-X8, Pro 3, P6, Rev2, Take 5, 3rd Wave, Deepmind, PolyBrute, Sub 37
Sound Sets:
https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/
Free Patches:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2022, 09:37:15 PM »
Thanks for the reply, but I might be out of luck.
  I'm thinking the Pro 3 maybe is not compatible with Windows 7 (it's MIDI drivers are from about 2010). But I can't upgrade the OS, I'd lose all the software I actually use. (I'm not paying subscription fees to ANYBODY!)

  The USB connection did get me more data, but only up to 1280 bytes. (And man! Screw MIDI_OX!) But the Pro 3 does show up as a "Pro 3" channel instead of choosing MIDISport In/Out 1 or 2...
  The Pro 3 Editor Demo acts about the same as it did. Still no dumped sysex to be seen. It's probably like your online tool - it won't show it if it doesn't end with an F7.

  It's too bad, I was loving this thing and looking forward to making my own wavetable set, now, with all the menu/pod and button problems, and the lack of filedump/communication, it's a POS and I'm pissed and depressed.

Thanks for trying.

(RE:
1. Yea, I don't. Just did for testing purposes.
2. Got a USB cable, see above.
3. That's kind of a no sh! Sherlock.  :)  But thanks anyway.)
(And, it was bank 1, program 29. :) )

Cheers
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2022, 11:41:27 PM »
oh, yeah, 1C = patch 29... indeed... when I glanced at it for reporting patch num, I looked at the value of the next hex byte:  38 = 57 value.

I would think it should work with Win 7 / USB... you might try contacting Seq Support direct: 
https://support.sequential.com/hc/en-us/requests/new


OB-X8, Pro 3, P6, Rev2, Take 5, 3rd Wave, Deepmind, PolyBrute, Sub 37
Sound Sets:
https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/
Free Patches:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2022, 03:54:15 AM »
Well, I was able to load IN some Sysex, the Add-On Wavetables and Programs, but still can't get more than 1024 bytes of a manual dump out of the keyboard. I guess it goes back to Sequential for tune-up. Hopefully they can get my U1 bank out.

Does anybody have particular Configure settings they use in MIDI_OX to receive a manual dump?

Thx
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2022, 08:12:58 PM »
  So, maybe I figured something out here?

  I can get (program/dump) data out properly if I use the 5pin MIDI connection, but not if I use the USB connection.(?)
(I hope... The file size looks right.)

Is that a thing?

[Note: Just in case. This is with a second/different Pro3 than I started with.]
[Note2:  Looking above, I did start with a MIDI cable!  Hmm.]

- E
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 08:22:38 PM by Elric »
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2022, 11:35:14 PM »

Aha!!  Finally!  [Whew!]
(Does nobody else save out their programs/data? Did I miss this somewhere?)

I think the clock or Program change data was interrupting the sysex dump. (?)
(If I'm correct, this should be a document/instructions somewhere. And, settings might need to be different for USB output? - I'm using my MIDI 5-pin output to MIDIsport for this right now.)

So, to get programs/data/dumps out properly from MIDI, I need to have the Global / MIDI settings as:


All
Off
USB
USB
NRPN
NRPN
On
On
MIDI
Off
Off
Off
Off
Off

:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2022, 04:50:20 PM »

Well at least I got my original first month of patches back (Thanks Sequential!)
But it looks like I lost about 20 patches of my second batch with a bad save/dump.

I have a Bank sysex file that's 592KB instead of 587KB.
I don't suppose anybody has any idea how to get that file cleaned up so it would work? Or get the patch data out somehow?

I'm just not having much luck with communications from/to this thing.   :/
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2022, 07:00:33 PM »

  Does anybody know if there is a way to "read" the sysex data, besides those first 6 bytes?

  I've found that almost all of the patches stored in my improperly dumped/saved bank have 4736 Bytes instead of 4695 Bytes.  If I could figure out with ones were the extras I *might* be able to get some of the patches?

Thanks,
- E
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.

Elric

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Re: Errors saving Patches and Banks out with Sysex/MIDI_OX
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2022, 08:42:25 PM »

... it looks like I lost about 20 patches of my second batch with a bad save/dump.

I have a Bank sysex file that's 592KB instead of 587KB.
I don't suppose anybody has any idea how to get that file cleaned up so it would work? Or get the patch data out somehow?

  I just found that when I use the (suggested in MIDI_OX docs) value for "Low Level Input Buffers", Size:64/Num:512, than I get a bank dump file size of 592KB (incorrect?). If I use 1024/1024 instead than I get the (correct?) 587KB file size. (I only saw the 1024/1024 settings suggested once from Sequential, as values to use for "Low Level *Output* Buffers", when sending OS files.)

  I guess maybe they didn't test very much with Windows and MIDI_OX for saving and loading data?
So, possible suggestion for that setup? (Though I'm certainly no expert.  Haha, [cough] )  ...use Size:1024/Num:1024 for both LowLevel Input and LowLevel Output buffers(?)

(This is a nightmare!)
- E


[Edit:]
P.S.  Note: so this, above/below, is probably irrelevant?...   :/
(So maybe, don't listen to me!  Or do, I don't know.  HELP!)   


So, to get programs/data/dumps out properly from MIDI, I need to have the Global / MIDI settings as:

All
Off
USB
USB
NRPN
NRPN
On
On
MIDI
Off
Off
Off
Off
Off
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 09:34:26 PM by Elric »
:Elric:
Kurzweil K, Pro3, TX81z, K1r, Triton w/MOSS, Wavestation EX in a bag in the corner.