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Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern

Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« on: January 02, 2022, 12:29:41 AM »
Hi Sequentials,

I think it would be easy to achieve to use the 16 step buttons to create rythmic patterns for the Arpeggiator. It should be possible to create rest‘s.

That should be included in the Trigger-Mode of the ARP. Currently the ARP is ignoring note information of the sequencer and only playing back the CC# information. There should be an option that can be switched on or off, to only ignore the pitch information of the note, but not the note-on/note-of information. The pitch information shall be taken from the played chord on the keyboard, like a arpeggiator is usually doing.

That would give us the chance to create rythmic patterns for the arpeggiator and give us a great flexibility. That should be easy to achieve.

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2022, 09:24:09 PM »

One work around is to use the VCA Env mod sequencer in a mod slot to mute the steps where you want a rest. It's just one step more but gives you the same result.

But having ratchets and variable duration per step would be cool.  8)

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2022, 12:46:15 AM »

One work around is to use the VCA Env mod sequencer in a mod slot to mute the steps where you want a rest. It's just one step more but gives you the same result.

But having ratchets and variable duration per step would be cool.  8)

Hello my friend,

Thank you very much for your kind participation in this topic.

I was already thinking about the alternative you suggested. And in the meantime I will also consider it.

But if you think about my suggestion very carefully, you will see, that it is not giving you the same result.

For example: if you play a three notes chord C-E-G

The arp is crating a repeating patterns of that.

If one of the notes is now silent by the VCA modulation from the sequencer, this note is missing in the pattern.

You will not hear it and that that will destroy the arp-melody.

And that's why this is not the way I mean it.

I want to hear all the notes that I play on the keyboard, with the ryrhmical pattern imprinted, that I have created, including rests, ties and ratchets.

Think of it as the same as the sequencer is already doing, but taking the pitch information from the played notes on the keyboard.

You may find such rythmical patterns for the ARP in the Access Virus TI and the Novation Summit/Peak.

For the Pro-3 it should be easy to achieve with minor code changes.

The Trigger mode for the sequencer is already there. Currently it ignores the note information. With a small change and one checkbox in the arp settings it could take the note informations from sequencer, but not their pitch, only their note-on and note-off information. Sequencer should not retrigger the sequence, if you press new keys on the keyboard.

That would make this Arpeggiator insane!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 01:56:30 AM by BurKeyBoarder »

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2022, 09:41:37 AM »
I have asked for this in the past - integration of ARP and Note Sequencer - but as I recall, Seq said the way the Sequencer and Arp are built, it would not be an easy change.   From my interpretation, the issue is that the gating of the notes ON|OFF is completely taken over by the Note Sequencer engine, and the keybed just becomes a transpose tool.  Alternatively, when the arpeggiator is engaged, the ARP engine takes over exclusive control of note gating.    I'm sure there's probably a way it could be done, but I understand that it might be a big ask.   (I built an instrument in Reaktor and tried to do the same, and ran into some convoluted logic/programming issues... so I don't doubt that there's a lot of complexity under the hood for this type of change)

It would, however, be an awesome update, if the code could be reworked!!  Being able to combine Note Seq Durations, Relative Note Interval offsets, Ratchets, and Note On/Off data with the ARP controlling the roots would open up a ton of awesome sound designs.   

On a side note, there is some sort of pseudo-workarounds for this, by using the ARP, with the sequencer in GATED mode.   I have done a ton of experimenting with this -- its my favorite thing to to with PRO3. :)  I built an entire soundset called "Mass and Motion" that explores the possibilities.  You can check out my demo for that, if you wanna hear a bunch of examples.   https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/mass-and-motion-soundset-for-sequential-pro-3-synth/

Also, I recorded this demo/example video that goes over my approach.   (Using relative interval offsets and cutoff sequencing to get skipped steps... though it does skip over the note that is triggered at that step - still creates a really cool rhythmic sound) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXuQqBtSH0

« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 09:54:54 AM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2022, 10:52:56 AM »
I have asked for this in the past - integration of ARP and Note Sequencer - but as I recall, Seq said the way the Sequencer and Arp are built, it would not be an easy change.

Hello dear friend, thank you for your sincere participation in this interesting topic and your detailed information.

It’s a pity, that the internal design of SEQ and ARP will make it complicated to achieve, what is looking to be an easy task from the outside view.

I created a support request on that topic and I guess I will get a similar answer.

As we can see in all sequential synths from the Rev2 and also P-6 or OB-6 they all feature a sequencer and a arpeggiator - but they are not integrated into each other. The Arpeggiator is always only able to play simple up/down, up+down or random patterns. The rythmic sequencer information can only be used static in the SEQ, but it’s not possible to use in the ARP.

Only exception is the Prophet 12. If you look into the manual of the P-12, there is an arpeggiator scratch pad, where you were able to create rythmic patterns for the ARP.

I hope that Dave Smith will redesign these code parts completely, maybe take a good example from the P-12, or even create completely new code for all current synthesizers to achieve this function.

That would lift all the synthesizers really higher, because many people - including me - love complex arpeggiator playing.

I don’t know if you are familiar with the Access Virus TI which features a very complex ARP, with over 60 factory patterns. A downside is, that custom patterns can only be configured via the VST control software.

Anyway - let’s see. Your patches are very nice. I think I will consider to buy the motion package.

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2022, 11:07:47 AM »
I haven't used the Virus TI, but it sounds like a good implementation.   The Deepmind does have a pretty nice ARP pattern system, and PolyBrute has Matrix-Arp mode, which gives some unique control over Arp motion (and nice realtime control of variations)   

If Sequential could redesign the firmware IP for for Note Sequencer + Arp, it would be a great advancement for Pro 3, and any future instruments that might use the same systems... It would definitely trump the Deepmind and PolyBrute's current offerings, if you could have the deep capabilities of the Seq's Sequencer (with ratchets, durations, note intervals, on|off steps) but with the ARP controlling the gating / root notes for each step. 

The Pro 3 is such an amazing platform, and even as-is, it's incredible for doing complex, dynamic sequencing with the 13x16x4 mod sequencer + ARP + MonoPoly style paraphonic mode... but yeah, it could be even better for songwriting and live play, if there was direct ARP + Note Sequencer integration.   


Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2022, 04:34:58 PM »
The Deepmind does have a pretty nice ARP pattern system, and PolyBrute has Matrix-Arp mode, which gives some unique control over Arp motion.

The Pro 3 is such an amazing platform, and even as-is, it's incredible for doing complex, dynamic sequencing with the 13x16x4 mod sequencer + ARP + MonoPoly style paraphonic mode...

For different reasons I don’t like Behringer. The Polybrute looks very interesting but it doesn’t fit into my setup regarding it‘s size and especially weight, although I like the matrix sequencer and arpeggiator… it’s really a pity.

I like the form factor of the PRO-3 and as you said, the ARP and SEQ are already outstanding and interesting, also the new morph function - similar to the PolyBrute.

I purchase an additional Sequential Rev2 16 desktop, to complete the PRO-3, in terms of polyphony and bi-timbrality.

I will test them for some weeks and then decide if the Polybrute could be an alternative. There is never the perfect solution, always some trade-offs. Especially money and space.

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2022, 04:53:52 PM »
For different reasons I don’t like Behringer. The Polybrute looks very interesting but it doesn’t fit into my setup regarding it‘s size and especially weight, although I like the matrix sequencer and arpeggiator… it’s really a pity.

Hah, yeah, I get that!  Not a huge fan of Behringer myself... wish they would just stick with original product designs and not leech off the legacy of others, and engage in legal nonsense that they have. 

I like the form factor of the PRO-3 and as you said, the ARP and SEQ are already outstanding and interesting, also the new morph function - similar to the PolyBrute.

I purchase an additional Sequential Rev2 16 desktop, to complete the PRO-3, in terms of polyphony and bi-timbrality.

I will test them for some weeks and then decide if the Polybrute could be an alternative. There is never the perfect solution, always some trade-offs. Especially money and space.

I've got both Rev2 and PolyBrute.   The PolyBrute is a really great synth, and the latest 2.0 OS brings a lot of good updates and enhancements.   I will say though, the Rev2 is a desert island synth for me.   I would keep it over any other analog poly synth on the market (minus the Moog One maybe, which cost 4x as much)   The Rev2 is just sooo versatile, with true bi-timbral operation, 16 voices, super deep synth engine and mod sequencing, etc... 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2022, 10:32:35 AM »
Quote from: creativespiral
Mass & Motion

Your Mass & Motion sound pack for the PRO-3 is really stunning. Very nice ARP. You have some how managed to create arpeggios, what I was requiring in this thread.

How you managed that?

Re: Feature Request: ARP function - create rhythmic ARP pattern
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2022, 02:07:42 PM »
Quote from: creativespiral
Mass & Motion

Your Mass & Motion sound pack for the PRO-3 is really stunning. Very nice ARP. You have some how managed to create arpeggios, what I was requiring in this thread.

How you managed that?

Thanks @BurKeyBoarder!   - It's probably my favorite bank of sounds I've ever created :)   The Pro 3 is really amazing for complex motion patches.   

That YouTube video I posted above goes through a demo of my general approach of designing "super arp" type of patches, using the ARP and Mod Sequencer with Specific Osc Frequency Offsets:
+/-96:  Up Octave / Down Octave
+/-56:  Up Perfect 5th / Down Perfect 5th
+/-40:  Up Perfect 4th / Down Perfect 4th
etc.....

Then using additional sequence lanes or LFOs to modulate other parameters on a per-step basis.   Cutoff dropping to create silent ghost notes / rests, and various other mod targets...  you can create some really crazy complex arps this way, that can be played in any key, but have tons of melodic motion and variation to them.    I used this same type of "super arp" approach for a bunch of patches in the latest Rev2 patch bank I made as well - but with the added capability of doing it on two bi-timbral layers simultaneously, and creating counterpoint melodic structures (https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/vcm-volume-2-soundset-prophet-rev2/)

The other type of patch I focused on in the Mass and Motion set is "paraphonic motion" patches... not using Arp, but using the mod sequencer in a similar fashion to modulate individual osc frequencies to specific harmonic intervals (Oct, P5, P4), and various other parameters.   

I really love the paraphonic capabilites of Pro3...  before purchasing I didn't realize how capable paraphonic mode would be would be for doing chord harmonies, but its really a unique sound - different from what you get with a poly synth... lots of interesting character from the envelope nuances.   
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 02:09:17 PM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/