Tempest Main 1.5.0.2 and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports

Thom

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #180 on: September 23, 2016, 04:41:12 PM »
Maybe I'm not understanding the design properly, but there is what I would define as a bug with external midi CC control of beat wide parameters.

Example:
While playing a beat, go to screens/sounds display.
If you use soft knob 2 to change the LP Freq and then return the knob to its initial 0 position, the beat is back to its default sound. This is what I would expect, enabling you to tweak a beat wide parameter for effect and then return it to 0, leaving the sound unaffected.

If instead of soft knob 2 you use an external controller CC 22 to tweak the LP Freq parameter, then I would expect a value of 64 on the the external CC to be equivalent to 0 on the soft knob control. This would enable you to use an external CC to control the beat wide parameters in exactly the same way as using the soft knobs.

This would be very useful for when you want to use recorded CC events to control beat wide effects such as when using an external sequencer with the Tempest, or in live situation when you want to control as much as possible from a single control surface.

The problem/bug is that controlling a beat wide parameter with an external CC behaves in a different way than using the soft knob, so its impossible to reproduce the effect of using the soft knob from an external CC, and its impossible to return the beat to its unaffected state if you do use an external CC to control the beat wide parameters. 

I'm wondering what is going on and if this is on purpose, because it significantly limits the use of the external CC control, which is a shame because it would be very useful if it behaved in the same way as the soft knobs.

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #181 on: September 23, 2016, 06:03:27 PM »
It does indeed have that function!  If you hold shift + Undo Rec you will see the 'Undo All Snds' function displayed in the bottom left of the screen.  The bug is that it doesn't always revert ALL the sounds in the beat, just some of them.

Cheers, J :)
Ah, that appears to be something that Chris snuck in without my knowledge. I tend to frown upon commands that require 3 fingers to operate. Can't imagine why.
Chris-- would you care to respond to this gentleman?

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #182 on: September 23, 2016, 06:28:58 PM »
Maybe I'm not understanding the design properly, but there is what I would define as a bug with external midi CC control of beat wide parameters.

Example:
While playing a beat, go to screens/sounds display.
If you use soft knob 2 to change the LP Freq and then return the knob to its initial 0 position, the beat is back to its default sound. This is what I would expect, enabling you to tweak a beat wide parameter for effect and then return it to 0, leaving the sound unaffected.

If instead of soft knob 2 you use an external controller CC 22 to tweak the LP Freq parameter, then I would expect a value of 64 on the the external CC to be equivalent to 0 on the soft knob control. This would enable you to use an external CC to control the beat wide parameters in exactly the same way as using the soft knobs.

This would be very useful for when you want to use recorded CC events to control beat wide effects such as when using an external sequencer with the Tempest, or in live situation when you want to control as much as possible from a single control surface.

The problem/bug is that controlling a beat wide parameter with an external CC behaves in a different way than using the soft knob, so its impossible to reproduce the effect of using the soft knob from an external CC, and its impossible to return the beat to its unaffected state if you do use an external CC to control the beat wide parameters. 

I'm wondering what is going on and if this is on purpose, because it significantly limits the use of the external CC control, which is a shame because it would be very useful if it behaved in the same way as the soft knobs.
Can you tell me how you're using CC22 to control BW Lowpass Cutoff?
By the way, I'm leaving now for a week vacation so either Carson will follow up or I will after my return.

Thom

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #183 on: September 23, 2016, 07:28:57 PM »
Can you tell me how you're using CC22 to control BW Lowpass Cutoff?
By the way, I'm leaving now for a week vacation so either Carson will follow up or I will after my return.

CC22 is being sent from an external encoder with absolute values 0-127 input to Tempest via usb.
Its set to value 64 initially.

Does that explain?
Maybe its an undocumented feature, I'm having no luck locating it in the manual.

Here are the parameters I know of...
CC# 12 - Distortion
CC# 13 - Compression
CC# 19 - a value other than 0 reverts Beat FX params to defaults
CC# 20 - Beat FX All Osc Frequency
CC# 21 - Beat FX Feedback
CC# 22 - Beat FX Lowpass Filter Cutoff
CC# 23 - Beat FX Lowpass Filter Resonance
CC# 24 - Beat FX Lowpass Filter Audio Mod
CC# 25 - Beat FX Highpass Filter Cutoff
CC# 26 - Beat FX All Env Attack
CC# 27 - Beat FX All Env Decay

Would be great to be able to externally control the FX1,2,3,4 as well!


Enjoy yr vacation :)

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #184 on: September 24, 2016, 01:19:18 AM »
Have fun Roger!
By the way, I'm leaving now for a week vacation so either Carson will follow up or I will after my return.

cbmd

  • *****
  • 505
    • Sequential
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #185 on: September 24, 2016, 04:35:24 PM »
There are two new bugs on the 1.4.3b OS which users should be aware of.

First, exporting an individual file from a file list will transmit the wrong file from the folder.  If you do wish to backup files on the 1.4.3b OS, make sure to transmit entire folders or the entirety of the Tempest's files.

Second, there is a display issue when files are deleted from the file menu.  The description is as follows.

If a file is deleted from a folder and the following folder has a greater number of files present, navigating up (folder 2 -> folder 1) to the folder which the file was deleted from causes the last deleted file from the folder to be displayed as the last file in the folder.  The file is not selectable.
Product Designer
Sequential | Oberheim

Pad B1 not playing : BETA update fixed it
« Reply #186 on: September 25, 2016, 06:05:00 AM »
Using latest NON-BETA. Was making a beat. then suddently no sound from B1 pad.

B1 sounded when hit. positions in pattern flashed, however no sound from pattern. No mutes were on. Changed beats. re-initialised sounds and beat. reset all parameters to default and re-calibrated. problem still same.

Updated to BETA OS. Problem resolved. :)

« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 06:06:32 AM by Jamboid5 »

Re: Pad B1 not playing : BETA update fixed it
« Reply #187 on: September 25, 2016, 11:59:07 AM »
Using latest NON-BETA. Was making a beat. then suddently no sound from B1 pad.

B1 sounded when hit. positions in pattern flashed, however no sound from pattern. No mutes were on. Changed beats. re-initialised sounds and beat. reset all parameters to default and re-calibrated. problem still same.

Updated to BETA OS. Problem resolved. :)

For the record, if this ever happens to you again, it's the 'MIDI Sequencer-out' designation, as set in the 'SYSTEM' menu.  The default pad for this functionality is pad B1, which in turn prevents the internal sound assigned to that pad from playing, and in all previous versions of the OS this functionality could not be turned off.  The newest beta allows that functionality to be turned off, and indeed that is the default setting; hence why the update seemed to fix the problem (wink).

Cheers!

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #188 on: September 25, 2016, 04:01:19 PM »
Hi Guys,

I note that as of Main OS 1.4.3b the first note of my sequencer out pattern is still lagging when the beat transitions.  Since it is listed on the petition, is it likely that this will be fixed?

Cheers, j :)

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #189 on: September 26, 2016, 05:23:25 PM »
After updating to Voice 1.5 and OS 1.4.3, I'm unable to hit two pads at once and make sound. If I hit a two pads at once, only one sounds. If I hold a pad down and hit other pads, I don't get sound until I release pressure from the first pad...

Any idea what's going on?

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #190 on: September 26, 2016, 05:56:49 PM »
After updating to Voice 1.5 and OS 1.4.3, I'm unable to hit two pads at once and make sound. If I hit a two pads at once, only one sounds. If I hold a pad down and hit other pads, I don't get sound until I release pressure from the first pad...

Any idea what's going on?

You need to reset the system parameters.  It's in the release notes (wink).

Cheers!

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #191 on: September 26, 2016, 10:27:42 PM »
It does indeed have that function!  If you hold shift + Undo Rec you will see the 'Undo All Snds' function displayed in the bottom left of the screen.  The bug is that it doesn't always revert ALL the sounds in the beat, just some of them.

Cheers, J :)
Ah, that appears to be something that Chris snuck in without my knowledge. I tend to frown upon commands that require 3 fingers to operate. Can't imagine why.
Chris-- would you care to respond to this gentleman?

Yes, Chris, this functionality seems a little convoluted to me as well.

a) the prompt is unclear...
b) the act of entering this page automatically 'reverts' the currently selected sound whether you hit the pad or not...
c) having to hold these buttons makes it difficult to access the pads in general...
d) it's a liability if you accidentally hit the 'Undo Rec' button first...
e) the 'SHIFT' button sticks if you accidentally let go of it first, even though it's being held instead of toggled...

I personally would prefer it if this functionality was simply removed altogether; but if it must stay, surely there's a simpler and safer way to 'Revert All Sounds'.  No?

Cheers!

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #192 on: September 27, 2016, 02:32:50 AM »
Hi Guys,

I note that as of Main OS 1.4.3b the first note of my sequencer out pattern is still lagging when the beat transitions.  Since it is listed on the petition, is it likely that this will be fixed?

Cheers, j :)

Yes, that bug remains to be fixed.  Roger Linn acknowledged this in his notes following the change-log in the beta release thread.  However, I have to say, there’s no guarantee at this point that any further bugs will be addressed.

I'm still corresponding with Roger Linn a couple times a week on average, testing and deliberating, constantly updating the bug-list as things get fixed (or inadvertently broken in the process), and discussing which issues should take priority.  But we’re just the facilitators.  What actually gets done is ultimately up to Dave Smith.  To that end, and I don’t mean to speak for Roger Linn or Dave Smith here, but we are getting down to the last of the bug fixes, and there are fixes yet needed for many of the fixes.  So perhaps this is a good time to remind y'all that the petition has been, and continues to be, the key motivator in all of this; and so I urge you, the community, to be vigilant and keep the pressure on.

There is talk of officially releasing this most recent beta as is.  And while it's unrealistic to expect the operating system to be completely bug-free, there are several issues remaining which are the result of nothing more than sloppy coding or slapdash implementation; issues that can be fixed, and in my opinion should be fixed.

Here is a comprehensive list of the problems remaining, as pertaining to the bug-list we presented in our petition, including those bugs that have been introduced since; many of which you guys found and reported, as requested, and have been in turn acknowledged and confirmed:



·       If you accidentally hit the 16 Beats or 16 Mutes button first, when trying to enter 16 tunings or 16 Levels mode, the Roll function automatically disengages – mode changes should happen upon the button’s release in order to prevent this.

·       In 16 Tunings mode, when the sequencer is stopped, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       In 16 Levels mode, when the sequencer is stopped, the Arp allows notes to be triggered outside of the selected quantize value, which creates undesirable flams when trying to depress multiple notes at once, or when adding new notes to the arpeggio.  Also, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       When recording with the Arp in 16 Levels mode, the held pads blink in succession with each note trigger as expected; but after the first pass of the sequence is recorded, only pad 16 blinks.  *In all other Arp modes, the pads continue to blink in the order they were depressed/recorded as expected.

·      When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      Tempest starts one midi clock late or early depending on various conditions of the sync source or Tempest modes.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      If you hold 'Shift' and turn the Compressor knob to get into the compressor menu, you can no longer get back to the Mixer screen.

·      When Slider Mode is set to 'Real-time', only FX1 Slider is affected. FX2/3/4 sliders are always 'Step' regardless of this parameter setting.

·      Using Mod Paths for external MIDI sound control results in intermittent affect on the sound.  *Causes are unclear, but bug occurs more frequently on playback of a Beat with many sounds.

·      When playing a Beat containing held notes of an ADSR sound, if you turn on Bank B while 1) a note is playing and 2) a different sound is selected, the playing note's pad sticks on.

·      LFO sync drifts when set to either 'Beat' or 'Play', and dotted eighths remains missing from the sync options.

·      The sequencer-out still doesn't trigger notes in real-time: i.e. it only sends trigger information after the sequence is recorded, which essentially means that you're recording deaf.

·      Beat roll still doesn't swing.

·      A sound folder is still need to correspond with the pad name "Synth".

·      Duplicate files appear when scrolling through the Beat and Project Folders in the Load File screen.

·      Similarly, if a file is deleted from a folder and the following folder has a greater number of files present, navigating up (folder 2 -> folder 1) to the folder which the file was deleted from causes the last deleted file from the folder to be displayed as the last file in the folder.  The file cannot be selected.

·      Exporting an individual file from a file list will transmit the wrong file from the folder.

·      When adding or copying steps via the Events Screen, the Pad lights do not correlate correctly in 16 Time Steps mode.

·      If slaving a playlist from MIDI clock received over DIN MIDI and starting at location 9.1.1 or higher, Tempest starts playing from the wrong position. Syncing from MIDI Clock over USB works fine.

·      In 16 Mutes mode, on the Pads screen, although you are still able to select a sound (holding shift and hitting a pad) it is not reflected graphically on the display.  This could be fixed if the display matched the style of the Mixer screen.

·       The Mute/Solo/Delay buttons should perform their functions in both the 16 Mutes/Pads and 16 Mutes/Mixer screens.

·      Mutes “All On” should be available on the mixer screen in both 16 Mutes and 16 Sounds Mode.

·      The “Undo All Sounds” functionality needs to be made simpler or otherwise removed.



There are no mysteries on that list, folks; all of the above bugs and issues with the U.I. are isolated and fixable (save one).  Regardless, this is no longer a moving target, so let’s keep the conversation going, both online and in the real world.  We must continue to insist that DSI allocate the resources needed to fix the Tempest.  It continues to sell, and it has generated more hype than any other instrument DSI has ever produced, so let’s take this all the way and set a new precedent in the consumer’s favor.

Good work thus far, one and all; Dave Smith and his team included…

Cheers!

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #193 on: September 27, 2016, 08:31:19 AM »
Hi Guys,

I note that as of Main OS 1.4.3b the first note of my sequencer out pattern is still lagging when the beat transitions.  Since it is listed on the petition, is it likely that this will be fixed?

Cheers, j :)


Yes, that bug remains to be fixed.  Roger Linn acknowledged this in his notes following the change-log in the beta release thread.  However, I have to say, there’s no guarantee at this point that any further bugs will be addressed.

I'm still corresponding with Roger Linn a couple times a week on average, testing and deliberating, constantly updating the bug-list as things get fixed (or inadvertently broken in the process), and discussing which issues should take priority.  But we’re just the facilitators.  What actually gets done is ultimately up to Dave Smith.  To that end, and I don’t mean to speak for Roger Linn or Dave Smith here, but we are getting down to the last of the bug fixes, and there are fixes yet needed for many of the fixes.  So perhaps this is a good time to remind y'all that the petition has been, and continues to be, the key motivator in all of this; and so I urge you, the community, to be vigilant and keep the pressure on.

There is talk of officially releasing this most recent beta as is.  And while it's unrealistic to expect the operating system to be completely bug-free, there are several issues remaining which are the result of nothing more than sloppy coding or slapdash implementation; issues that can be fixed, and in my opinion should be fixed.

Here is a comprehensive list of the problems remaining, as pertaining to the bug-list we presented in our petition, including those bugs that have been introduced since; many of which you guys found and reported, as requested, and have been in turn acknowledged and confirmed:



·       If you accidentally hit the 16 Beats or 16 Mutes button first, when trying to enter 16 tunings or 16 Levels mode, the Roll function automatically disengages – mode changes should happen upon the button’s release in order to prevent this.

·       In 16 Tunings mode, when the sequencer is stopped, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       In 16 Levels mode, when the sequencer is stopped, the Arp allows notes to be triggered outside of the selected quantize value, which creates undesirable flams when trying to depress multiple notes at once, or when adding new notes to the arpeggio.  Also, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       When recording with the Arp in 16 Levels mode, the held pads blink in succession with each note trigger as expected; but after the first pass of the sequence is recorded, only pad 16 blinks.  *In all other Arp modes, the pads continue to blink in the order they were depressed/recorded as expected.

·      When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      Tempest starts one midi clock late or early depending on various conditions of the sync source or Tempest modes.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      If you hold 'Shift' and turn the Compressor knob to get into the compressor menu, you can no longer get back to the Mixer screen.

·      When Slider Mode is set to 'Real-time', only FX1 Slider is affected. FX2/3/4 sliders are always 'Step' regardless of this parameter setting.

·      Using Mod Paths for external MIDI sound control results in intermittent affect on the sound.  *Causes are unclear, but bug occurs more frequently on playback of a Beat with many sounds.

·      When playing a Beat containing held notes of an ADSR sound, if you turn on Bank B while 1) a note is playing and 2) a different sound is selected, the playing note's pad sticks on.

·      LFO sync drifts when set to either 'Beat' or 'Play', and dotted eighths remains missing from the sync options.

·      The sequencer-out still doesn't trigger notes in real-time: i.e. it only sends trigger information after the sequence is recorded, which essentially means that you're recording deaf.

·      Beat roll still doesn't swing.

·      A sound folder is still need to correspond with the pad name "Synth".

·      Duplicate files appear when scrolling through the Beat and Project Folders in the Load File screen.

·      Similarly, if a file is deleted from a folder and the following folder has a greater number of files present, navigating up (folder 2 -> folder 1) to the folder which the file was deleted from causes the last deleted file from the folder to be displayed as the last file in the folder.  The file cannot be selected.

·      Exporting an individual file from a file list will transmit the wrong file from the folder.

·      When adding or copying steps via the Events Screen, the Pad lights do not correlate correctly in 16 Time Steps mode.

·      If slaving a playlist from MIDI clock received over DIN MIDI and starting at location 9.1.1 or higher, Tempest starts playing from the wrong position. Syncing from MIDI Clock over USB works fine.

·      In 16 Mutes mode, on the Pads screen, although you are still able to select a sound (holding shift and hitting a pad) it is not reflected graphically on the display.  This could be fixed if the display matched the style of the Mixer screen.

·       The Mute/Solo/Delay buttons should perform their functions in both the 16 Mutes/Pads and 16 Mutes/Mixer screens.

·      Mutes “All On” should be available on the mixer screen in both 16 Mutes and 16 Sounds Mode.

·      The “Undo All Sounds” functionality needs to be made simpler or otherwise removed.



There are no mysteries on that list, folks; all of the above bugs and issues with the U.I. are isolated and fixable (save one).  Regardless, this is no longer a moving target, so let’s keep the conversation going, both online and in the real world.  We must continue to insist that DSI allocate the resources needed to fix the Tempest.  It continues to sell, and it has generated more hype than any other instrument DSI has ever produced, so let’s take this all the way and set a new precedent in the consumer’s favor.

Good work thus far, one and all; Dave Smith and his team included…

Cheers!

+1000 for that Roger & all at DSI!  Definitely would like to see those fixed please.  J :)

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #194 on: September 28, 2016, 04:39:33 PM »
I'm giving all my heart for this machine and i believe many users out there feel the same..I was there even when T was an idea..Waited patiently until it's release..Raised money to buy it..Even fought with my wife about it..Finally bought it..Beta tested it for years..Having fun with it..And all i'm asking from Dave personally is just simply to address these bugs now and not abandon us..Dave are you hearing us?

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #195 on: September 28, 2016, 06:05:32 PM »
100% agree!
Tim

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #196 on: September 28, 2016, 06:15:10 PM »
Dave doesn't read this or any other forum, but his staff does.

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #197 on: September 28, 2016, 07:30:28 PM »
Agreed. It is a great machine but for the life of me I can't figure out why a closed box system is riddled with bugs that takes years to fix. Dont get me wrong I love the Tempest but I went OTB for stability. Please don't stop developement to finally have a bug free system.
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #198 on: September 28, 2016, 10:36:53 PM »
There are two new bugs on the 1.4.3b OS which users should be aware of.

First, exporting an individual file from a file list will transmit the wrong file from the folder.  If you do wish to backup files on the 1.4.3b OS, make sure to transmit entire folders or the entirety of the Tempest's files.

Per my testing, I believe the following is a temporary workaround for successfully exporting individual project files. Curious if you all have the same results.
-- Export the individual project file from a folder containing nothing else but that individual project file. This is achieved by moving the file to an empty project folder for export. I think of this dedicated export/import folder like a Star Trek transporter for project files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transporter_(Star_Trek)

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.2.5b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #199 on: September 28, 2016, 10:52:01 PM »
...
If a file is deleted from a folder and the following folder has a greater number of files present, navigating up (folder 2 -> folder 1) to the folder which the file was deleted from causes the last deleted file from the folder to be displayed as the last file in the folder.  The file is not selectable.

From my experience with this issue:
When I come across that recently-deleted, non-selectable "ghost" file , and then I navigate upward (to a higher "directory") and then come back to the folder that has that "ghost" file name, something gets refreshed, and that "ghost" file is gone.