Tempest Main 1.5.0.2 and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports

[lowpasscowbell]

When I slave the Tempest to ANY other midi clock source, it has a LOT of clock drift. I bought this used, but System info is showing I'm on OS 1.4 and voice 1.5.

When I set it as slave, it will show BPM wit an added .1, i.e. BPM at 120.1 instead of 120. Occasionally it will appear to sync when I set BPM to 117.5 or 119.5, but then it will drift up and down in BPM as it plays.

Was this an earlier bug? I can't seem to find any info on midi clock drift when googling and digging through the forums. Also is there a "search" function for the forums I'm not seeing?

Thanks!

[dsetto]

When I slave the Tempest to ANY other midi clock source, it has a LOT of clock drift. I bought this used, but System info is showing I'm on OS 1.4 and voice 1.5.

As this was a function important to me, I checked this out on the current official OS and various beta's this past year. Specific user configuration issues aside, I have found Tempest to not have perceptible drift when it slaves via direct USB connection to Logic under normal loads.

(When pushing the system to extremes, I could hear momentary drift, but quickly locking in again. Those extreme loads include exceptionally high tempos, and excessively busy sequences. I discount those. So, from my observation, the particular sync I've described is solid.)

I believe this is an aspect important to DSI, and will exist in the last OS.

My suggestion would be to update to the current beta OS. It's all but final. Moreso, as you are new to Tempest and do have a body of work behind it; and I assume are not knee-deep in a project and must keep functional that which is needed for that project.

When I set it as slave, it will show BPM wit an added .1, i.e. BPM at 120.1 instead of 120. Occasionally it will appear to sync when I set BPM to 117.5 or 119.5, but then it will drift up and down in BPM as it plays. Was this an earlier bug?

This is not a bug. This is intentional behavior. Sonically, sync is tight. Visually, there's variance between the Tempest tempo readout and the other device's tempo readout. I don't know the exact reason. (There's a possibility it's related to focusing on actual sync, with less emphasis on always matching visual.) It could be disconcerting until you are told it's normal. But, your ears could easily tell you what's what.

I can't seem to find any info on midi clock drift when googling and digging through the forums.

In conjunction with my personal tests, I figure that supports the absence of this as a current issue. As I find this feature essential, I am always curious to read about other's experiences with it.
 

Also is there a "search" function for the forums I'm not seeing? 

There's one in the top left screen, 3rd word from the left, in between "Help" & "Profile", you'll find "Search".

Of course, there's the ever-useful
[query terms] site: xyz.com

Where xyz in this case = forum.davesmithinstruments.com

[dsetto]

The 'SWING, TIME SIGNATURE and/or BEAT TRANSITION Bug' mentioned in the previous post, has now been clarified and is being investigated further by DSI.

Sorry I haven't had a chance to attempt your scenario on my end. Your clear instructions allow community members to attempt it. (I will if/when I can. I haven't had much chance with current Beta yet.) I'm glad to hear DSI is investigating it.

[dsetto]

...  but I'll keep testing later and see if I can get it to happen again.

Have you had Voice Loss issues in current beta (1.4.5.6) with files that were created on 1.4.5.6?

[LucidSFX]

Dsetto: I have not been able to lose voices since I reformatted/calibrated again. I beleive that quote you posted above was actually from me....unless Adam wrote the same?? Eitherway, I hope this helps.

[RobH]

Every midi device that is slaved shows a BPM that bounces around, the Tempest is not special in showing a less than 100% accurate slaved BPM, also I find my Tempest to slave very well to Abelton Live on PC, its about as good a midi slave as i've ever experienced to be honest, maybe try reducing your latency or something to get better midi sync.

[Sontag]

Dsetto: I have not been able to lose voices since I reformatted/calibrated again. I beleive that quote you posted above was actually from me....unless Adam wrote the same?? Eitherway, I hope this helps.

can you load your old projects back in after reformatting and calibrating?

[dsetto]

Dsetto: I have not been able to lose voices since I reformatted/calibrated again. I beleive that quote you posted above was actually from me....unless Adam wrote the same?? Eitherway, I hope this helps.

can you load your old projects back in after reformatting and calibrating?

I don't know the answer to this question. But my suggestion would be: when loading in old projects, just keep an ear out for anomalies. If  you encounter an anomaly, try out a project solely consisting of files created in the current OS; i.e, "clean slate". If the anomaly goes away in that assessment case, then, .... time to make some choices. (What to let go? How much to try to salvage?) ... My guess is that it's generally a case-by-case basis. I would guess some old projects will work in a current OS, and some won't.

Right now, we are in a beta assessment phase. "Clean slate" approach is good when discussing the viability of the current, near-end Beta. ... Once we're in Last OS era, we have the capacity to eventually start to discover what elements from old projects cause issues in the Last OS, and what does not. But, that will be over time, based on our collaboration here & with DSI support.

--
Hey Lucid, yeah, you & Adam were experiencing similar issues.

[LucidSFX]

Dsetto: I will load an old song and let you know. I am heading out on a conference and will be back this weekend to advise.

[bozo]

Rarely mentioned but a fact

And although I jhavent checked with recent os, trying to beat match the t with other gear is ny on impossible.

Its internal clock drifts, floats, fcks about doesnt know if its coming or going.

We often used to jam with no midi, just beat matching 3 or 4 bit of kit (that way you can start stop without calling "hey wait  wait can we stop start AGAIN)
I couldnt keep the T next to just one machine and match it (RY-30, R 70, MP-7)

Not a common practice but it did shed a light on the internal clock being whack!

[idm]

And although I jhavent checked with recent OS...

Myeh, try with a recent os. This info is quite old. Cheers

[Smith_]

He guys, i cant find the download link to the new tempest os, still struggling with 1.4.0

[grunes]

They can be found under the post "Tempest BETA OS - Main 1.4.5.6 and Voice 1.5". You need to be logged in, and then you will be able to see the files at the bottom of the opening post.

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,586.0.html

[RobH]

Ok 1.4.5.6 i've been programming drums all afternoon, running some hats from Midi from Abelton, i've had no problems and then all of a sudden i lose one of the hats, nothing is choked and a single voice is assigned to my main HH and the voice just drops, hitting the pad doesn't play it even when stopped and it just plays a random once in a while, i reloaded the project from earlier when i know 100% it was playing correctly and the voice is still silent.

I'm going to run the calibration and see if it happens again.

edit - Now my T has frozen during calibration (actually on the voice that was dropping out as well not sure if thats a co-incidence?) Its stuck on

*****Calibrating****

Voice 1
Pan and Volume

I guess im going to have to risk a reboot

[AdamXAudio]

...  but I'll keep testing later and see if I can get it to happen again.

Have you had Voice Loss issues in current beta (1.4.5.6) with files that were created on 1.4.5.6?

Haven't had the time to thoroughly test it again unfortunately.  Oddly enough when it happened the first time it was on 1.4.5.6 with files only created on 1.4.5.6 after I formatted everything.  Little bit scary, but if it's not happening to other people constantly hopefully it's not really an issue   I'll try to do some testing again tonight.

[RobH]

...  but I'll keep testing later and see if I can get it to happen again.

Have you had Voice Loss issues in current beta (1.4.5.6) with files that were created on 1.4.5.6?

Haven't had the time to thoroughly test it again unfortunately.  Oddly enough when it happened the first time it was on 1.4.5.6 with files only created on 1.4.5.6 after I formatted everything.  Little bit scary, but if it's not happening to other people constantly hopefully it's not really an issue   I'll try to do some testing again tonight.

I'm finding basically that when I have a lot of sounds playing the voice allocation sometimes doesn't return a voice even if its assigned a voice, only in very busy arrangements, its a little hard to determine whats going on sometimes and you just realise a voice isn't actually playing anymore, hitting the pad returns it but if its sequenced sometimes it just doesn't play for some reason.

I'm the worlds worst tester i know i can never like list how i got somewhere because i'm just busying twisting and turning and pressing and messing. The voice allocation defo a little wonky for me at least.

[RobH]

ERm, my main volume knob isn't working??? Is there any reason or way that this shouldn't be effecting my volume?

Erm, yeah, well thats happening to my T right now. I am running some hats still and kick from abelton but there is no automation of any volume happening?

Even so when i'm muting that midi track out the volume still has zero effect. What am i missing here?

A reboot sorted my Volume out but, yeah not sure about that one!?


edit - Ok, so i'm also experiencing some really weird things when i'm changing beat using the Quantization (END) this doesn't happen when i use BAR,or any of the other quantizations, like there is a little delay or jump and the midi notes its recieving when i change beats kind of jump a little, it doesn't happen when i dont change beats and I even went and lined up the midi notes so they were perfect in the DAW, but still when I change beats its not pumping out the midi notes correctly. I'm trying to assertain what is going on, to see if i can erradicate this jump somehow.

If someone else could test this with me the steps are as follows

Make a beat 4 bar beat, make a hi hat pattern with 2 hi hats and one kickdrum on pads 10 (hat) 11(hat) and 12 (kick)

Make a 16bar midi file in Abelton (or any daw i guess, running hats on 16ths mainly  and 2nd hats just playing over the top 8th/16ths. kick is 4/4. Make sure both hats and kicks are playing at the start of every 4 bar rotation (so u can hear this). Make a simple bassline on A1 sequenced from the T just on 8thnotes will be fine.

Copy the beat to pads 1 2 and 3 recieving the midi from the DAW to play the drums, now when you change beat does it skip a little or does it play perfectly when you use the END quantization, and then if you use bar and time it make the beat change in the same place does it play correctly?

Thanks

[grunes]

Hi RobH and AdamXAudio,

In regards to the Voice Allocation, I sent the following test steps (see below) and attached file to DSI based on what I had experienced. You might find the information or suggested ‘workarounds’ of use.

Although the voice in question was Pad A14 a String Sound that was dropping, the ‘workaround’ involved Pad A16 a Bass Sound. Carson’s suggestion was to remove the choke from Pad A16 (Bass Sound) and this did indeed work, my own ‘workaround’ was to TIme Shift Pad A16 (Bass Sound) by +1 at 1.1.1 in the Beats Event screen.

Below are the steps and file we used to test the scenario:

TEMPEST SETUP:
System OS: Main OS 1.4.5.6, Voice OS 1.5, Panel OS 1.3 and SAM OS 1.1
Initialise Project.
Reset System Parameters.
Select BPM source as Beat.
With 16 Beats & Pads highlighted select Pad A1.
Load Beat into Pad (Attached File – ‘Drop’).
With 16 Beats & Pads highlighted play Beat (145 bpm).
You should hear a String sound playing within the Beat, this is the sound/voice we are going to concentrate on (Pad A14).
Press 16 Sounds & Sounds.
Select Pad A14.
Select Mod Paths.
Press Page down.
You should now see the following data:
Choke Pad 1: – –
Choke Pad 2: – –
Voice Assign: V6
Pitchbend Amt.: 2 Semitones

Now if you select Voice Assign to ’None’ and press play you will hear the string sound being cut short (as per voice prioritisation).

Now if you select a voice V1-V6 and run through each voice and press play at some stage you will have a voice selection which will NOT produce the Pad A14 string sound.

[RobH]

Thanks Grunes appreciated i'll check it out!

Ok i have recorded this skip when using a beat change and running midi from a DAW

Both recording are using the same exact 4 bar loop copied over 2 pads, the first i let it play 8 bars no problem,

The second recording is the exact same content the only change is I program a beat change using the END quantise after 4 bars but I play an exact copy of the first beat so there should be identical to the recording where no beat change was programed, as i said this doesn't seem to happen if i use any other quantise other than END.

here are the links

https://soundcloud.com/robert-tree-hardy/no-change

https://soundcloud.com/robert-tree-hardy/beat-change-bar-5-tempest-beta-skip

[RobH]

Ok so i'm getting the skip on the beat quantize as well, i tried adjusting my latency but to no effect, i'm still baffled why it should lag in this way when changing a beat when its reading the midi data from the DAW and it does it fine with no beat change.

I would appreciate if others would look into this with me as i'm not the best tester in the world but i think this is a pretty important thing, it is to me personally, i want to be able to run midi data to the drums and also be able to change a beat without this skip.

EDIT - I am also getting this skip on other quantise amonunts, not just beat Quantise END but also bar so i'm guessing its probably inherent in them all,

Also pertaining to this problem it actually sounds like the kickdrum is playing twice instead of once on the beatchange so i'm not sure if the beat change somehow is sending the midi data twice on the change or something.