Tempest Main 1.5.0.2 and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #380 on: March 06, 2017, 02:46:29 AM »
I agree this is a 'must fix' issue. It's in the original manual and, well, what's the point of 'sync' that doesn't sync?

Note that it doesn't doesn't just 'drift out' in my experience either, it's slightly off from the outset and gets worse.

If you do a fairly extreme modulation (for example with a 'ramp down' wave) and set it up so that the cycle of the LFO starts on each time a sound triggers the LFO will start its cycle slightly before the beat which can cause nasty and unwanted artefacts in the tail of the last note.

Sync is in the original manual and should sync properly!
Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #381 on: March 06, 2017, 10:26:18 AM »
The beauty of a working sync and well crafted modulation routing using the digital OSC is the impact it has on voice count for a live set (uses only one voice). I imagine with all LFO's working correctly you can switch up a HH patterns just by tweaking the LFO amount setting. It's exactly what a live instrument needs considering we have only two hands. Meaning, I change the HH pattern in a sec and flip over to a percussion sound to  punch in a new rhythm etc. Once this gets working I am trying to figure out how to use the Analog OSC for the same switching using the LFO. It just might make it possible for me to have independent controls over the HH and let's say a BD or single OSC bass. 4 LFO's would be cool! Anyway, I totally took a tangent and do not want anyone to think that I am hijacking this thread asking for new features! *grin*

I love this machine. I just sold an old piece of midi gear online. When the guy came to pick it up he passed by my Tempest which was actually sitting around the corner of a wall...I don't know how he spotted it but he went nuts asking about. No way am I selling this beast....ever... I am planning to start a cult following...Yorgos and Savage can be the Grand Pooba's...ok now I have totally side tracked...oops..

To get back on point...I discovered this issues sadly by not reading the forums *whip* but by thinking of making a forum challenge to create a 1BAR evolving pattern using just one voice. Tom Cosm challenged his forum a while back using Live's Operator. It was a great exercise to really learn. Turns out I got some cool things going with the T but the sync went the way of the DODO...
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

idm

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #382 on: March 06, 2017, 12:01:15 PM »
Exactly! It's the thing that kind of makes not having Polymeters less of an issue, if it didn't went out of sync...

Really hope this isn't forgotten for the final release. It's as close to a major bug as it can get for now. Other than that I'm loving this machine so much :). Actually going to do a first mini live set with it this Friday at a Bd party with dj/producer friends present. The challenge is I'm only using the T for this one as an exercise.

Sorry to go off topic too, but hopefully it just shows how much we want this not syncing lfo thing to be fixed :P

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #383 on: March 06, 2017, 10:29:03 PM »
Quote from: Dave Smith
First, and most importantly, I’d like to thank you for being a loyal Tempest user. We appreciate all of your support, feedback, and especially your creative use of the Tempest over the course of its 6-year development. It is now a mature product that has undergone many changes and improvements.
 
When the Tempest was first conceived, we never imagined the many ways you would ultimately put it to use. As such, over time, we've done our best to add as many features as we deemed implementable within the Tempest's technical framework. We've listened to your requests and have enhanced its operation, editing, and performance capabilities. While there are still some minor bugs remaining, we’ve addressed the bugs affecting the Tempest’s essential operation and feel that it is stable, reliable, has abundant functionality, and is very fun to play.
 
Though some of you continue to request new features and offer useful suggestions for improvement, we’ve reached what we consider the limits of the instrument's available memory and processing ability. For these reasons, we consider this release (OS 1.4.5.1) to be our final Tempest OS release.
 
Again, we deeply appreciate your enthusiasm for the Tempest. As we move forward, we are committed to creating still more ground-breaking instruments in the future.
 
-Dave

Well, ain't this a kick in the nuts.  I'm glad you're so proud of yourself, Dave.

Sorry, y'all, but I'm out.  It's time for me to go fight this battle for myself in front of a proper judge.  But I encourage each and every one of you to keep fighting for what you paid for.  And I don't mean wining about the features you wish had been implemented; but rather demanding that the ones you bought the Tempest for, six years ago, that still don't work correctly, actually get fixed.  You have been defrauded.  Period.  Trust me, I've fought this battle before and won.  You have rights as a consumer, and I encourage you to apply them.

Quote from: Roger Linn
I'd like to add a few words to Dave's statement above. Though I may have chosen differently, I understand Dave’s decision to finish Tempest development with this update. He’s devoted far more effort and resources to Tempest than any of his other products, and I feel that even with some remaining minor bugs, Tempest is incredibly deep and remarkably functional, and in my opinion has no competition for what it does. The interesting thing about a a product that stores your music is that it’s an invitation to an infinite number of feature requests, because everyone’s needs for music creation are unique. I actually would have preferred a simpler Tempest with less features, but I admire Dave and his team for working so hard to implement so many of your requests, and those efforts have probably made it a better product than I originally envisioned. On balance, if you look at the totality of things Tempest can do and its vast internal complexity, I think it’s pretty amazing and may never be equalled. I certainly couldn’t have made Tempest on my own and appreciate that Dave was willing to devote so many of his resources to this collaboration of ideas.

I guess this is where we come to a crossroads, Roger.  I too would have "preferred a simpler Tempest", like the one I originally purchased for instance!  Wherein those parameters that are supposed to "sync" actually sync, and simple implementations like the arpeggiator actually work consistently across their various modes.

Details, details though, right?

What a waste of time and energy this has been.  I can honestly say, I regret having ever aspired to this instrument.  I could have bet my money on software, had a thousand times more functionality and flexibility, and suffered just as many bugs and instabilities.

I will never purchase another DSI instrument again, nor will anyone I rub elbows with if I can help it.

Good luck, everyone.  Stand up for yourselves.  We are not as lucky to have Dave Smith, as he is lucky to have us.

This is me, signing off...

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #384 on: March 06, 2017, 10:40:17 PM »
Yeah...there are some major freaking issues that need fixing. Leading up to today even in the last few posts from RL it appeared that the bugs were going to be fixed once and for all. I simply don't get it. Not to mention the beta testing this group has been doing for years. The vanilla explanation from DS was inappropriate. I would have expected a more sincere comment. Of all the hardware forums I belong to this is the most dedicated and for the most part supportive group. John, both you and Yorgos have done tremendous work keeping things together. PM me about your next steps.
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #385 on: March 06, 2017, 11:20:41 PM »
Quote
Main OS 1.4.5.1
Fixed Bug: Exporting certain projects over MIDI DIN cause freeze
Fixed Bug: Sending SPP and Continue when playlist active causes wrong beat to play in playlist
Fixed Bug: Sending SPP and Continue with playlist off does not locate to correct measure in loaded beat

I believe those two "Sending SPP and Continue ..." bugs were the issues I was having. I do believe they were fundamental. I am grateful to see they have been addressed. Eager to assess.

Thank you for the instrument and for addressing what you guys consider are its core functions.

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #386 on: March 06, 2017, 11:44:34 PM »
John, thank you for your efforts as Tempest users' liaison during the Tempest refinement. It is my guess that your 'remaining bugs list' from Feb 15, 2017 (minus the 3 last bug fixes) is the best guide to know which quirks remain. I'll copy it fully here as I figure it's useful to keep handy.

This came up in another thread, so I thought I might as well post and updated version of the bug-list here as well...


Bugs remaining as of Feb. 15, 2017:

·       If you accidentally hit the 16 Beats or 16 Mutes button first, when trying to enter 16 tunings or 16 Levels mode, the Roll function automatically disengages – mode changes should happen upon the button’s release in order to prevent this.

·       In 16 Tunings mode, when the sequencer is stopped, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       In 16 Levels mode, when the sequencer is stopped, the Arp allows notes to be triggered outside of the selected quantize value, which creates undesirable flams when trying to depress multiple notes at once, or when adding new notes to the arpeggio.  Also, both adding and releasing notes interrupts the Arp causing it to reset and fall out of sync.

·       When recording with the Arp in 16 Levels mode, the held pads blink in succession with each note trigger as expected; but after the first pass of the sequence is recorded, only pad 16 blinks.  *In all other Arp modes, the pads continue to blink in the order they were depressed/recorded as expected.

·      When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      Tempest starts one midi clock late or early depending on various conditions of the sync source or Tempest modes.  *This is an invasive fix.

·      If you hold 'Shift' and turn the Compressor knob to get into the compressor menu, you can no longer get back to the Mixer screen.

·      Compressor Envelope 'Amount' only goes from -64 to +127 instead of -/+127.

·      Regardless of what value is set and saved, every time the Tempest is power cycled the Compressor Envelope 'Peak Hold' parameter changes to match the value of the 'Amount' parameter.

·      After a power cycle, all the Compressor Envelope parameters display at the correct value as saved (*with the exception of 'Peak Hold' – see above); however, in actuality they are zeroed, and will otherwise remain that way until each parameter is revisited and its value is moved by at least one increment.

·      When Slider Mode is set to 'Real-time', only FX1 Slider is affected. FX2/3/4 sliders are always 'Step' regardless of this parameter setting.

·      Using Mod Paths for external MIDI sound control results in intermittent affect on the sound.  *Causes are unclear, but the bug occurs more frequently on playback of a Beat with many sounds.

·      When playing a Beat containing held notes of an ADSR sound, if you turn on Bank B while 1) a note is playing and 2) a different sound is selected, the playing note's pad sticks on.

·      LFO sync drifts when set to either 'Beat' or 'Play', and dotted eighths remains missing from the sync options.

·      The sequencer-out still doesn't trigger notes in real-time: i.e. it only sends trigger information after the sequence is recorded, which essentially means that you're recording deaf.

·      Beat roll still doesn't swing.

·      A sound folder is still need to correspond with the pad name "Synth".

·      When adding or copying steps via the Events Screen, the Pad lights do not correlate correctly in 16 Time Steps mode.

·      In 16 Mutes mode, on the Pads screen, although you are still able to select a sound (holding shift and hitting a pad) it is not reflected graphically on the display.  This could be fixed if the display matched the style of the Mixer screen.

·       The Mute/Solo/Delay buttons should perform their functions in both the 16 Mutes/Pads and 16 Mutes/Mixer screens.

·      Mutes “All On” should be available on the mixer screen in both 16 Mutes and 16 Sounds Mode.

·      In the System Menu > MIDI Remote Pad Play > when 'Pad To Note Mode' is set to 'Mutes', if a note number is received that is one of the 'Bank B' assignments on that page, it is treated as the 'Bank A' assignment of the same number.  For example, if Pad B1 is assigned to note# 80, and Pad A1 is assigned to note# 69, sending Tempest note# 80 will toggle the mute of pad A1.

·      The “Undo All Sounds” functionality needs to be better implemented or otherwise removed.  It is currently awkward, buggy, and a liability on account of the fact that it uses the 'Undo Rec' as a 'SHIFT' function.

·      When you set System > UI Preferences > Solo/Mute behavior to 'Seq only', if you mute a pad that contains a sequence and then attempt to play that same sound live in 16 Tunings mode, turning the Mixer Level knob causes the sound to cut-out.

·      If you edit a project and then attempt to do a RAM dump via the 'Save/Load' screen: 7. Export Project over MIDI, the Tempest freezes.

·      In '16 Beats' mode, when trying to copy/paste beats by holding the 'copy' button, nothing happens if you attempt to 'paste' into the beat that is currently selected; whereas pasting into an unselected beat works as expected.

·      If you toggle the 'Reverse' button on and play a beat, it plays correctly in reverse. However, if you then select a different Beat, the newly-selected beat does not play in reverse even though the 'Reverse' light is on.

·      While a sequence is playing, in '16 Time Steps' mode, on the 'Events' screen, disengaging the "Loop Screen" function causes the tempest flip-out for a second: i.e. all the pads light-up in rapid succession and the beat stutters.  Sync, however, is maintained.



Okay, the above list should accurately represent the Tempest’s status as of Beta OS 1.4.4bb.  I’ve removed any bugs that have recently been noted in the change-log as “fixed”, and have added any bugs that have been reported and confirmed since the last time I updated the list.  If I’ve missed anything, or if I’ve removed anything that has in fact not been fixed, please let me know.

Cheers!


I wonder if these two issues remain.
Quote
·      The sequencer-out still doesn't trigger notes in real-time: i.e. it only sends trigger information after the sequence is recorded, which essentially means that you're recording deaf.
·      If you edit a project and then attempt to do a RAM dump via the 'Save/Load' screen: 7. Export Project over MIDI, the Tempest freezes.

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #387 on: March 07, 2017, 12:06:38 AM »
Quote from: Dave Smith
As we move forward, we are committed to creating still more ground-breaking instruments in the future.

Translation:

'We will continue to produce a bunch of shiny news toys bundled with pre-release and buggy firmware which we will fail to support over the coming years, replacing them instead with more shiny new toys.

Oh yeah - and that manual that you read before forking out your £2k to make sure your money was well spent - take it with a pinch of salt will ya?

Yours, laughing all the way to the bank, Dave Smith'
Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #388 on: March 07, 2017, 01:12:49 AM »
One thing i don't understand is why if OS 1.4.5.1 is the final release it says "BETA"????Weird stuff...Does this means we're stuck with a BETA OS?Can someone from DSI reply to this simple question?
For these reasons, we consider this release (OS 1.4.5.1) to be our final Tempest OS release.

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #389 on: March 07, 2017, 05:48:07 AM »
Btw on the official Dave Smith Instruments support site (http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/updating-tempest-os/) the latest version is 1.4...Someone from staff should change it as it's very misleading and gets people confused...

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #390 on: March 07, 2017, 08:50:02 AM »
Which issues remain that affect Tempest’s fundamental functions?

dsetto

  • ***
  • 388
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #391 on: March 07, 2017, 09:30:58 AM »
It is my wild guess that the doors are closing with 1.4.5.1. It will be renamed to 1.5, and shed the beta moniker.


Tempest branches can extend wide and winding yielding different fruits. Power-users climb those thin branches, and get there. Yet, at its trunk and first few thick branches, I think we can all agree on reasonable and shared notion of what it fundamentally is. And that Dave Smith Instruments & Roger Linn Designs succeeded in realizing their vision of this.

From John’s updated Feb 15 ‘outstanding issues’ list; which issues remain that affect the trunk and first few thick branches? Which issues remain that affect its fundamental functions? Right now, this should be our sole focus. Even if seemingly fantasy. It is my fantastical optimistic nature that were there to be one or two truly significant fundamental bugs remaining, that perhaps they can get addressed. (It may very well be that there are zero truly fundamental bugs remaining.) I am not a power user, and therefore not in a position to assess this.


I don’t know of any electronic finger drum instrument that does for me what Tempest does- as it is now. Past or present. This is merely my perspective.


DSI is well served by a constructive user base. We are best served by a successful DSI.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 09:33:51 AM by dsetto »

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #392 on: March 07, 2017, 09:34:15 AM »
LFO sync drift is a major fundamental issue. It simply doesn't work as it is suppose to in play or beat. I don't want to rehash the issue as I have brought it up a few times. some of the other bugs I can live with but a synth with shoddy LFO's is ridiculous.
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

idm

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #393 on: March 07, 2017, 09:58:39 AM »
I agree. To me that is the single and only fundamental flaw that still should be fixed. The other issues aren't that bad and can be worked around. Lfo sync that doesn't sync is kinda weird and is definitely a thick tranche.

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #394 on: March 07, 2017, 10:40:45 AM »
This one's got my vote too...
LFO sync drift is a major fundamental issue. It simply doesn't work as it is suppose to in play or beat. I don't want to rehash the issue as I have brought it up a few times. some of the other bugs I can live with but a synth with shoddy LFO's is ridiculous.

sofine

  • **
  • 122
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #395 on: March 07, 2017, 02:36:23 PM »
Very disappointing DSI. I know the tempest project is probably a thorn in your side at this stage but I have lost respect and faith in your business ethics and your development abilities / management.

A clear preference for profit over delivering what was promised.

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #396 on: March 07, 2017, 02:41:41 PM »
Let's not go over the top here. It is a fantastic machine...they did put a lot of effort but quit short the finish line but it cant be forgotten that they released beta ware since the release;)
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

sofine

  • **
  • 122
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #397 on: March 07, 2017, 03:46:17 PM »
I'm not denying it's a fantastic machine. I love it, but its a very disappointing conclusion to a long experience of continuous broken promises and let downs.

I'll still use it in my tracks. Will I buy a DSI product again? Dunno. Probably not one that has any degree of complexity like the tempest. They've shown they don't have the resources or inclination to commit resources to finish such a product as promised.

LucidSFX

  • ***
  • 302
  • Drifting is fun with cars not with MIDI Clock.
    • Soundcloud
Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #398 on: March 07, 2017, 04:13:03 PM »
Good point. Yesterday I was looking at the comparison chart for their gear. Specifically the Pro-2. It's a 4 voice monophonic synth with: 16 steps x 16 tracks or 32 steps x 8 tracks. Given the Tempest's sequencer limitations, I find it difficult to understand the Pro-2 sequencer's usefulness. Do I expect the same functionality? It is hard to trust what is in print at this point.
LucidSFX

-----------------------
current hybrid setup
-----------------------

2 x Technics 1200 MK7
Allen & Heath DB4
Allen Heath K2
Tempest
VirusTI2
RME UFX
Adam A7
SP2400 (on order)
Glenlivet 18yr scotch

Re: Tempest Main 1.4.4b and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports
« Reply #399 on: March 07, 2017, 05:52:01 PM »
Good point. Yesterday I was looking at the comparison chart for their gear. Specifically the Pro-2. It's a 4 voice monophonic synth with: 16 steps x 16 tracks or 32 steps x 8 tracks. Given the Tempest's sequencer limitations, I find it difficult to understand the Pro-2 sequencer's usefulness. Do I expect the same functionality? It is hard to trust what is in print at this point.

I've got both a Tempest and a Pro 2. They're both fantastic and inspiring machines I consider myself fortunate to be able to own. (hundreds of machines have come and gone from my life in the time I've had my trusty Tempest.)

Do they have flaws? Yes. Just like Electribes. and Octatracks. and Maschines. and Ableton. and paintbrushes. and guitars. and Mini Coopers. and Alfa Romeos. and Buicks. and democracy. and Samsung Galaxy S7s. and OP-1s.

Nothing man made is perfect. But some things can be pretty damn good, especially if you focus on what they can do, not what they can't do.

I for one am happy Dave Smith and Roger Linn had the bollocks to even try and pull this thing off.

It could be worse, we could have bought a Spectralis :)