Tempest Main 1.5.0.2 and Voice 1.5 - Bug Reports

[Yorgos Arabatzis]

I can confirm this bug fixed on the latest BETA OS 1.4.4b...Thanks guys!

Another critical bug for me here and it's a simple one to reproduce...
Just slave Tempest to a DAW (in my case Live via USB) and scroll with soft knob 3 through the Sound Folders.Train wreck...Loses sync completely.I'm guessing it's Tempest's screen refresh rate lag..

[sata_fortuna]

There's a bug with the pad in and out midi routing.
a sound should be triggered in response to a midi in note assigned to a pad, as is happening, but the incoming midi note shouldn't be re transmitted to the midi out.
the way is working now, you can't record pad palying sending a pad note to a DAW and then midi back to the tempest even with setting local control off, cause the incoming midi note is sent back to the midi out creating a midi loop. that makes no sense.

[danx]

How do you have connected the Tempest to the DAW?
What Daw are you using?

[Umair]

where can i download the new update from?

[Yorgos Arabatzis]

Logged in at the bottom of the first post here:
http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,586.0.html

where can i download the new update from?

[purusha]

Does anyone have more detail on this fix in the new release?

"SPP messages greater than 9 bars cause unexpected behavior".

Thanks!

[LucidSFX]

If using a DAW or external sequencer where the song is olaying at bar 21 (or anything greater than 9) would case the T to choke when it should just loop around the max 8 bar limit. 

[sata_fortuna]

How do you have connected the Tempest to the DAW?
What Daw are you using?

Ableton Live using usb midi.
i'm sending midi from the tempest pads to Ableton (with local control off), so i can record midi live pad playing. Then sending midi back from Ableton to the Tempest, so i can listen to what i'm recording. tempest is set to receive on chn 10 and send midi on chn 11. Thing is, incoming midi notes to Tempest sent from Ableton on chn 10, are re-sent back to Ableton on chn 11 creating a loop.
is easy to check it out:
If i set a midi track on Ableton sending a clip sequence on chn 10 to the Tempest (using notes assigned to pads of course) and another one receiving midi from the tempest on chn 11, yo can see that the sequence sent from Ableton is getting back to Ableton, and that's not the expected behavior. No other hardware synth works that way, cause it makes no sense, unless it is on midi through (and in that case should be on the same midi channel, not on the configured channel out).

[Stoss]

On the previous page of this thread I posted about some strange MIDI behavior related to MIDI going out on the channel it was meant to come in on. Could it be related to that?

[cbmd]

I noticed something odd when using MIDI to control an external synth. I was able to play the synth live from two separate pads B15 and B16 at the same time. I believe the synth was receiving MIDI on all channels. I was able to isolate the problem. With only a MIDI cable going out of the Tempest and in to the external synth and with the settings like this:

MIDI: Synth IN Channel: 1
MIDI: Synth Sound: B16
MIDI: Sequencer Out Channel: Off
MIDI: Sequencer Sound: B15

I was able to play the external synth live by playing Pad B16. Unless I am misunderstanding something, the Tempest should only be receiving external MIDI and use it to play the notes of B16... and as set above, it should send no notes to an external synth. Is this a bug?

No it's not a bug.  In your example, B16 will send note data out on channel 1.  B15 will send note data out on the channel set in the MIDI remote pad play parameters.

[danx]

sata_fortuna:
I use the Tempest with my DAW via MIDI(USB & DIN) too,and don't have any midi loops issue.
I´m on Cubase 8.5 not Ableton,nevertheless I believe that you could have some misconfiguration.
I use two channels,10 for Drums & 1 for a synth part.

Cheers

[Stoss]

I noticed something odd when using MIDI to control an external synth. I was able to play the synth live from two separate pads B15 and B16 at the same time. I believe the synth was receiving MIDI on all channels. I was able to isolate the problem. With only a MIDI cable going out of the Tempest and in to the external synth and with the settings like this:

MIDI: Synth IN Channel: 1
MIDI: Synth Sound: B16
MIDI: Sequencer Out Channel: Off
MIDI: Sequencer Sound: B15

I was able to play the external synth live by playing Pad B16. Unless I am misunderstanding something, the Tempest should only be receiving external MIDI and use it to play the notes of B16... and as set above, it should send no notes to an external synth. Is this a bug?

No it's not a bug.  In your example, B16 will send note data out on channel 1.  B15 will send note data out on the channel set in the MIDI remote pad play parameters.

Hi Carson.

I'm a little confused here. I reread a portion of the manual and it doesn't seem to agree with what you are saying. My understanding is this:

These parameters are for routing incoming MIDI with the intent of using a keyboard controller to control an individual pad to be played as a polyphonic synthesizer:
System: MIDI Polyphonic Synthesizer Keyboard Play
- MIDI: Synth IN Channel (Chooses the MIDI channel the external keyboard will play)
- MIDI: Synth Sound (Chooses the pad the external keyboard will be directed to)

These parameters are for routing outgoing MIDI from the sequence of an individual pad to an external synthesizer. This of course will not be polyphonic, because the Tempest can not record polyphonic information on an individual pad:
System: MIDI Polyphonic Synthesizer Keyboard Play
- MIDI: Sequencer Out Channel (Chooses the MIDI channel that an external synth will see MIDI notes on)
- MIDI: Sequencer Sound (Chooses the pad that will send sequencer MIDI notes to the external synth)

These parameters are completely separate from the "Polyphonic Synthesizer" parameters and act independently from it. They are implemented to externally mirror either the input of the pads or mirror the output of the pad sequencing:
System: MIDI Remote Pad Play
- Remote Pad IN Channel (Chooses the MIDI channel that an external controller uses to send note information to the pads)
- Remote Pad OUT Channel (Chooses the MIDI channel that an external device will see MIDI notes on)
- MIDI Note: PadA1-PadB16 (Chooses the MIDI notes associated with each of the 32 Pads for both MIDI IN and OUT)

If my understanding of all of these parameters is correct, please explain why you say that B16 would send MIDI out? Also, why would B15 as set on the Polyphonic Synthesizer Keyboard Play screen have anything to do with Remote Pad Play, especially when my Remote Pad OUT Channel was set to "OFF"?

I have become very comfortable with the MIDI routing of the Tempest over the last few years and I must admit, your answer is truly confusing to me. It will indeed blow my mind if I have been mistaken all this time... but I am humble enough for that to be the situation!

Thanks for the help.

[bsp]

First of all, hello everyone, this is my first post here.

I just got a Tempest and upgraded it to the latest firmware (after encountering some known issues with the last official 1.4 release).

According to "Show system information", the synth now has:
- Main OS Version 1.4.4
- Voice OS Version 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
- Panel OS Version 1.3
- Sam OS Version 1.1

This firmware has a major, show-stopping bug that "randomly" causes voices to go permanently silent.

Sounds cannot be triggered anymore until the synth is power-cycled/reset.

When assigning a fixed voice to non-triggering sounds, it becomes apparent that certain voices still work while others do not.
Stopping all voices via "left shift + right shift + stop" does not fix this.

The bug can be reproduced by triggering sounds via MIDI, then playing some sounds on top of that.
It can also be reproduced by playing a MIDI sequence for a while (and doing nothing else). After around two minutes, the first sounds start to disappear. After a while (ten minutes?), no voices trigger anymore (=> no sound at all).


Some other bugs I found after a few days of testing:

• Pad pressure / polyphonic aftertouch is not received via MIDI. The synth should also be able to receive PolyAT messages _before_ the note-ons so that voices immediately starts with the correct modulations. Keep in mind that, beside velocity, polyphonic aftertouch is the only MIDI message than can affect individual notes/sounds! Don't think of it just in terms of actual key/pad pressure!
• MINOR: Changing a "beat wide" parameter to != 0, then back to 0 does not revert to the original sound (Only clicking the "Revert" soft button (or sending CC#19) does)
• MINOR: "osc slop" does not work

Some things that would be incredibly useful to have (in order of precedence):

• MIDI program change on "remote pad" channel for selecting beats (so that MIDI "remote pad" note messages can still be used for triggering sounds. "Beats" could then be used to store sound variations that can be selected via MIDI.
• Copying the sequence of a single sound from one beat to another (or did I miss something? this is such an essential feature!)
• More freely assignable CCs. Three CCs (modwheel/expression/breathcontrol) are simply not enough for 512 sounds (16 beats * 32 sounds)! Please add at least 16 more to the mod sources list!
• In "16 steps" / "Events" mode, "shift + cursor left/right" should rotate the entire sound sequence left/right one step. This key combo is currently unused.

Other, more minor features that would still be very useful:

• When disabling a step in "16 steps" mode (intentionally or accidentally), all step params (vel/dur/tune/..) are reset when the step is enabled again. Since there is no way to mute single steps other than (temporarily) deleting them, it would be much more convenient if the params would remain unchanged when a step is activated again (especially for live performances!).
• Beatfx: "Env All Release" destination
• MIDI CCs for the touch strips (send + recv)
• UI: cursor up/down on mod path screen should select previous/next mod matrix entry, similar to how cursor up/down selects a track on the "Events" page. Currently, cursor up/down duplicates the function of the page up/down keys.
• Playing a pad should not cancel the "save sound" dialog.

That being said, I really like the Tempest so far.
The interface is laid out really well and the synth sounds great.
Different than other drum machines but hey, that's why I bought one!

[sata_fortuna]

sata_fortuna:
I use the Tempest with my DAW via MIDI(USB & DIN) too,and don't have any midi loops issue.
I´m on Cubase 8.5 not Ableton,nevertheless I believe that you could have some misconfiguration.
I use two channels,10 for Drums & 1 for a synth part.

Cheers

k, lets check it out then.

try this:
connect the tempest to your computer using usb midi.
send a midi sequence on channel 10 from cubase to the tempest (using notes assigned to pads on the sequence), and create another midi track receiving midi channel 10 from the tempest (armed so midi gets in, check its working by hitting some pads).
the sequence sent from cubase should not get back to cubase.   

of course, if i only want to sequence the tempest from a daw it is not an issue, but if i want to record live playing pads MIDI notes, with local control off and send back those midi notes to tempest for monitoring audio in real time it is a big issue.
same if i want to use the pads for playing some sample drums on the daw, again with local control off, while sequencing tempest drums from the daw.

[cbmd]

If my understanding of all of these parameters is correct, please explain why you say that B16 would send MIDI out? Also, why would B15 as set on the Polyphonic Synthesizer Keyboard Play screen have anything to do with Remote Pad Play, especially when my Remote Pad OUT Channel was set to "OFF"?

I have become very comfortable with the MIDI routing of the Tempest over the last few years and I must admit, your answer is truly confusing to me. It will indeed blow my mind if I have been mistaken all this time... but I am humble enough for that to be the situation!

Thanks for the help.

Hi Stoss,

B16 would still send MIDI note data out because you may want to record polyphonic MIDI note data using the pads.

B15 would still send MIDI note data as set in the MIDI remote pad play settings due to the MIDI sequencer sound being set off.  If the MIDI sequencer sound is set to on, settings made in the remote pad play parameters are ignored for the selected MIDI sequencer sound pad.

Hope this helps!

[bsp]

Here's is a list of very detailed instructions on how to reproduce the issue I reported a couple of days ago:

Issue description:

• Some or all Tempest voices disappear after triggering sounds via the "remote pad" MIDI channel for an extended period of time (~1..10 minutes).
• When the issue occurs, these voices will be permanently dead until the synth is reset (power off/on)
• Sometimes the volume knob stops working or sound glitches occur (wrong sounds are played).

Test equipment:

• DSI Tempest synth (a recently manufactured unit was used for testing, serial nr 474x)
• PC running MIDI-OX (any standard MIDI file player might do but testing was done with MIDI-OX. It should be possible to use a Mac or any other MIDI/SysEx-capable computer for this)
  
• Standard MIDI cable
• A pair of headphones (or the main output can be used instead)
• The debug files attached to this message (debug-06Dec2016.syx, debug-06Dec2016.mid)

How to reproduce the issue:

• Make sure the tempest has an up-to-date OS installed (tested with the official OS 1.4 and the latest beta OS 1.4.4.b).
  The "Show System Information" page on the Tempest should show the following:
  Main OS Version: 1.4.4
  Voice OS Version: 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
  Panel OS Version: 1.3
  Sam OS Version: 1.1
• Send the "debug-06Dec2016.syx" project SysEx dump to the Tempest (does not matter how (USB/MIDI) or which software you use. I used MIDI-OX). Make sure it loaded correctly.
• On the Tempest, save the project to the "Factory" folder (selected by default) so it will auto-load when the synth is switched on
• Close all MIDI applications on the PC/MAC (MIDI-OX)
• Unplug all cables (except for power, of course) and connect the MIDI output jack of your interface to the "MIDI In" jack on the Tempest.
  Do _NOT_ connect any other cables except for power and the headphones (or the main out audio cables)
• Reset the system configuration on the Tempest:
  1. Press "System"
  2. Press "Cursor Right" several times to get to the very last page
  3. Select "4. Reset System Parameters"
  4. Press the "Reset Now" soft button to actually reset the configuration
  Important: Do _NOT_ change anything in the system configuration except for the following
• Go to the system configuration again and select the third page from the left (starts with "Remote PAD IN Channel")
• Edit the remote pad MIDI note configuration as following:
  4. MIDI Note: Pad A1   C4 / 48
  5. MIDI Note: Pad A2   C#4 / 49
  6. MIDI Note: Pad A3   D4 / 50
  7. MIDI Note: Pad A4   D#4 / 51
  8. MIDI Note: Pad A5   E4 / 52
  9. MIDI Note: Pad A6   F4 / 53
  10. MIDI Note: Pad A7   F#4 / 54
  11. MIDI Note: Pad A8   G4 / 55
  12. MIDI Note: Pad A9   G#4 / 56
  13. MIDI Note: Pad A10   A4 / 57
  14. MIDI Note: Pad A11   A#4 / 58
  15. MIDI Note: Pad A12   B4 / 59
  16. MIDI Note: Pad A13   C5 / 60
  17. MIDI Note: Pad A14   C#5 / 61
  18. MIDI Note: Pad A15   D5 / 62
  19. MIDI Note: Pad A16   D#5 / 63
  20. MIDI Note: Pad B1    E5 / 64
  21. MIDI Note: Pad B2    F5 / 65
  22. MIDI Note: Pad B3    F#5 / 66
  23. MIDI Note: Pad B4    G5 / 67
  24. MIDI Note: Pad B5    G#5 / 68
  25. MIDI Note: Pad B6    A5 / 69
  26. MIDI Note: Pad B7    A#5 / 70
  27. MIDI Note: Pad B8    B5 / 71
  28. MIDI Note: Pad B9    C6 / 72
  29. MIDI Note: Pad B10   C#6 / 73
  30. MIDI Note: Pad B11   D6 / 74
  31. MIDI Note: Pad B12   D#6 / 75
  32. MIDI Note: Pad B13   E6 / 76
  33. MIDI Note: Pad B14   F6 / 77
  34. MIDI Note: Pad B15   F#6 / 78
  35. MIDI Note: Pad B16   G6 / 79
  Be very careful here, due to the large number of pads, it is very easy to enter the wrong MIDI notes (wrong octave etc). Double-check the config when you're done!
  Note aside: The "B" pads are not configured at all in the default config and the "A" pad MIDI notes are all over the place. This is a much better default config, in my opinion.
  
• Press "System" to leave the system configuration page and save the configuration to flash
• Switch off the Tempest
• Turn it on again.
  Do *not* touch any of the panel controls or pads and do *not* send it any MIDI
  Note: The debug project should now be loaded and the "16 Sounds" and "Pads" button should be lit.
• Start MIDI-OX (or whatever software you use for playing standard MIDI files)
• Select "Actions => Play MIDI.." in MIDI-OX
• In the "MIDIBar" dialog that should now be visible, load the "debug-06Dec2016.mid" file (attached to message) (third button from the left)
• In the "MIDIBar" dialog, click the device selection button (second from the left) and select the MIDI out port that is connected to the Tempest MIDI in (depends on your setup)
• In the "MIDIBar" dialog, click the "loop" button (first from the left). Make sure it is enabled!
• In the "MIDIBar" dialog, press "Play" (fourth button from the left).
  The pads on the Tempest should now start flashing and you should be able to hear the MIDI drum pattern
• Turn down the volume on the Tempest so the sound is barely audible, then leave the synth / MIDI sequence running and do something else for at least 10 minutes (you can turn the volume up from time to time to see if there already are any sounds missing, sometimes the issue already occurs after less than 10 seconds!).
• After around 10 minutes, stop the MIDI sequence, turn up the volume and manually play the pads on the Tempest. You will most probably notice that some pads will not trigger sounds anymore (happens on my unit every time).

[bsp]

Update: I think I found the root cause for all these weird issues today (disappearing voices etc):
Saving all the sounds in the project, loading a factory project, then reloading the sounds into it, apparently resolved all issues.

When I updated from 1.4 to 1.4.4b, I followed the update instructions and backed up my project via SysEx, and resent it to the Tempest after the firmware update. This is where things started to go wrong.

In other words: The main issue here is that projects exported in OS 1.4 will cause very weird effects when they are loaded in OS 1.4.4b via SysEx.

I also noticed that the "Export Project over MIDI" function is broken in 1.4.4.b (Tempest hangs at Beat 1). As a workaround, "Export File" can be used instead.

[cbmd]

Hi Bastian,

It has not yet been confirmed that the issues you were encountering are specifically due to files exported from the 1.4 OS causing strange behavior.  You can test this by exporting a factory sound bank file from the synth on 1.4 and loading it back to the Tempest on 1.4.4.

Also, I am unable to replicate the issue you are encountering with the EXPORT FILE OVER MIDI parameter.  It is working well on a Tempest in shop. 

Please follow up with me regarding these issues directly at support to confirm any issues prior to posting to this forum. 

[danx]

"the sequence sent from cubase should not get back to cubase"

It doesn't..I'm controlling Groove Agent with the Tempest Pads while Cubase is sequencing Tempest all in two channel 10 tracks.
You must have something misconfigured.
Cheers

[grunes]

Hi Bastian,

It has not yet been confirmed that the issues you were encountering are specifically due to files exported from the 1.4 OS causing strange behavior.  You can test this by exporting a factory sound bank file from the synth on 1.4 and loading it back to the Tempest on 1.4.4.

Also, I am unable to replicate the issue you are encountering with the EXPORT FILE OVER MIDI parameter.  It is working well on a Tempest in shop. 

Please follow up with me regarding these issues directly at support to confirm any issues prior to posting to this forum.

Hi Carson,

I have also had problems since updating to v1.4.4b and returning to v1.4. I was hoping to clarify these problems but have been unable to isolate them.

My current project was saved in v1.4.4b and loaded back into v1.4. I have had random MIDI clock sync/freezes when Tempest slaved to LogicProX and voice dropping. The PRE v1.4.4b file version is OK, but I have gone too far with current file to revert and rebuild from scratch, but ultimately will have to. Unfortunately, I am in a process of moving house and with Christmas coming all my gear is now packed away.

Carson I I can confirm the ‘EXPORT PROJECT OVER MIDI’ bug which is still carried over from 1.4.3b. I have reported this and Roger kindly replied:

Yes, I get the same results on stock Tempest projects. I have just switch the Tempest on and loaded the stock Tempest project “Eight Oh Eight’ and attempted Export Project over MIDI the Tempest froze at Exporting project [Beat 3]. I can post the resulting 4Msgs SysEx file if you want. Thanks again for your time.

Thanks, Grunes. Those same steps caused Tempest to freeze here, though oddly it froze while exporting beat 10. Regardless, I thank you for finding this one, which I believe is worthy of fixing before releasing the update.

You replied about a  ‘EXPORT FILE OVER MIDI parameter’, of which there is no issue.

I think trying to home in on these issues is going to be painful.